Very upset with online dating (v. long)

[Clarentine]

Hello everyone.

Feeling really down today, online dating has not been working for me at all and today it's all got a bit too much for me, feeling really upset and depressed with it all.

I am 27 years old and have never had a proper boyfriend with the exception of one relationship when I was still a teenager, but we never slept together or went on any outings or anything like that, and I can barely remember it tbh, it was a long time ago and I have been single for coming up to ten years now.

I started online dating around this time last year, well it was probably around beginning of November time. Initially I got quite a few messages but it was all people from other countries, men much older than me and so on. I did reply to some messages but the conversation never got very far. Eventually I got talking to one guy at the beginning of December. We messaged and text every single day and finally arranged to meet at the end of January after eight weeks of daily messaging.

I liked him, but I could tell from his behaviour that he didn't like me. The date was very rushed, he didn't offer to pay for me (not a problem, just noted as a possible sign he probably didn't like me) and he left the date very quickly. He never text me to check I got home safely, even though it was dark as it was January (we met for dinner after work) and I had an hour and a half journey home alone on public transport. Not only that, I never heard from him again.

I wasn't like devastated as although I felt a bit disappointed, mainly I was just so pleased I had actually been on a real date after ten years! I blocked him on the website and began again.

After a few months around March/April time I met online what I thought was a great guy. He was very handsome and kind and funny and had a good job. He wanted to meet straight away but after the last fiasco I was feeling a bit shy and said no. We carried on messaging and eventually we met up for dinner and the cinema. He was very romantic on the date and it went really well, he complimented me and I could tell he liked me, he paid for me and the conversation was really natural, afterwards he contacted me straight away and we carried on messaging. We went on another date and that also went really well, it was now May and we had been messaging daily for a few months, he asked me to go away on a trip with him and I said yes and we also decided we would be official boyfriend and girlfriend! I was so happy, obviously and really crazy about this guy. we also agreed to stay at a hotel together on the next date (he paid for the hotel but I also paid some other stuff for him).

Sadly this date was not so well, he seemed kind of 'off' compared to the other dates but claimed this was because he was unwell. He wanted to sleep together but I said no. He knew I'd never been with a guy before. I wanted to wait a little longer until I knew him a bit better, also I wasn't on the pill. He seemed okay with my decision but after the date he went a bit silent and didn't text me as much, less than a week later he sent me an email dumping me, saying it was due to work commitments, I was absolutely gutted and cried a lot, I really thought he liked me as a person and wouldn't be like that.

About eight weeks later he sent me a few texts saying he'd noticed I'd deleted my online profile and hoped it wasn't anything to do with him but I was very strong and didn't reply to his messages and I deleted his number off my phone again (I'd already deleted it when he first dumped me).

Anyway after that I had a few more rubbish dates which I got with a new profile under a different name, I can't describe them here as it would make this message even more long but suffice to say they were terrible and on one of them I burst into tears and couldn't stop crying, I was still not over the guy before and also felt so depressed and unhappy.

Finally around beginning of August I met another guy. This is the guy I'm now upset about. I've never met him yet in real life for various reasons, we had arranged to meet later this month. He seemed really nice and from his photos very attractive, we have been messaging most days since the beginning of August. He wasn't always the best at replying to emails, I once sent him a long message and he said as it was late he would reply to it the next day, he never did and when I nudged him a few days later he said he 'forgot', but he insisted he was still interested in me. I decided not to make a fuss and we carried on messaging and though I never met him I liked him a lot. Two weeks ago I went on holiday and as he said he'd miss chatting to me while I was gone I made sure I sent him a long message before I went and I enjoyed talking to him anyway. While I was on holiday I was pretty busy and didn't get much chance to think of him the first week but the second week while sunbathing etc I did think of him and missed him quite a lot as I was used to hearing from him daily. I was so looking forward to hearing from him when I got back as I had no access to emails while I was away. Well, I got back from holiday yesterday and I was so disappointed that there was no new message from him, I had missed him very much and he had never replied to my last long message! I know it sounds dramatic but I was kind of crushed and sent him a message last night why he didn't reply. He said he didn't know why, hoped I would forgive him, said he was still interested in me and liked chatting to me. I slept on it and this morning I was still so upset over it I emailed him to say I was not willing to put up with my messages being ignored, it's not the first time it has happened, if he really was interested he would reply to me. I told him I didn't want to stay in contact and that I didn't want to meet up any more as we were meant to be meeting for the first time the weekend after next.

I am feeling a bit discouraged, I just want to meet someone genuine who is not just looking for someone to sleep with and who actually enjoys talking to me and doesn't blank my messages. All I ever wanted was to get married and have a family with someone who will be my best friend, and after a very painful year of online dating, that doesn't look likely to happen anytime soon, I'm no closer to having a boyfriend than I was before.

Very, very upset and I don't want to do the online dating any more as it's not fun any more and it's too painful. It looks like I am going to be single forever. :-(

Clarentine, don't feel embarrassed. I remember you because I was going through something similar myself. Glad to hear you're better. So am I.

OP you sound like hard work. Of course you're getting hurt when you're investing so much emotion in someone before you've even fucking met them. Try a christian chat room in future if you don't believe in sex before marriage. You should print out this thread to keep and reread. Lots of good advice on here.

Do you have many women friends? other women in RL that you can talk to?

I think OP there is nothing wrong with your values and with your intentions. However you must realise that those values are different to those of most of the men you are going to meet online.

Unlike others here, I don't think this necessarily means you are disadvantaged. Here's a bit of logic...

Most women (I think) want to have sex within a loving LTR or marriage.

Most women hold these values but instead decide to play because we believe that this is the root to the LTR we seek. Sometimes it does. Often it doesn't. These women post threads asking why he dumped them after they had sex, these women are hurt.

You, on the other hand are prepared to hold to your values and will not any time soon be posting the question "Why did he dump me after we had sex"

You will though experience a great deal of disappointment, but don't be swayed to adopt the ideas and behaviour of others, because that way lies more hurt and misery...for you.

A certain happiness can be found from being true to oneself and not compromising their own values.

Online dating is a bit depressing, and most men will want sex. But that shouldn't stop you from looking and it shouldn't stop you from hoping one day you meet someone with your values. The chances are that when you do, he will be the right one for you.

Good luck and don't feel pressured either by a man, or by the more "liberal" attitudes around you, do what is best for you.

all sounds a little weird to me...

Minx
Most women hold these values but instead decide to play because we believe that this is the root to the LTR we seek.

I don't believe this is the case for the majority of women. I think most women have sex because they want to have sex, not as some weird form of manipulation. (Have you been hanging out on reddit?)

No, I haven't but yes wouldn't the world be a wonderful place if women only ever had sex when they wanted, and then never regretted doing so. I think most women probably do still want to have sex in LTR. sorry...are you married? most appear to be or want to be. I'm not, it's never appealed. But it seems it is still some sort of goal for most, that along with monogamy. Quite how no one sees the contradictions in modern life is beyond me. Its like hook ups, ONS, Fuck buddies...and then the cut off point at which one says they want monogamy! as though the two social institutions were quite compatible.

OP, forgetting all of the distractions in this thread please remember one thing: men who don't want to meet up in Real Life usually have a reason. They are married or simply stringing you along.mplease listen to others on here who recommend an early meeting for a coffee etc. OLD is a method of making contact but NOTHING replaces meeting in the flesh and seeing if there is any kind of spark or attraction. You don't have to wait to be asked, just say very early on 'how about we meet for coffe next week?' If there are multiple excuses then sorry, he's not really interested.

Wishing you well but please listen to some of the advice you have been given on here, you've rarely resonded to any of it, just argued with anyone who has questioned what you have done so far.

I'm sure you will meet someone but if you have such a defensive character in real life it could be a little off putting.

Women want sex for all sorts of reasons Minx. Some genuinely like casual sex, some prefer it in LTR, and guess what - there's the same sort of variety among men. I've known men who play the field, men who can't see the point of sex without a meaningful emotional connection, even men who are fed up finding all they can get are casual hook ups while yearning for a LTR relationship.

I agree with Pocket - you sound like you've picked up some really weird internalised misogyny herw - that women only want sex as a kind of transaction.

Incidentally I don't get the sense that OP sees it this way so we should try not to let things get derailed. There are men out there who share your attitude to sex OP, just not many, and most of them will have these views for religious reasons.

I don't think OD is for you.

I think you are best off meeting through friends/relations, gym, work etc

You are lucky in one respect, some men on online dating would have eaten you alive and played you well.

I'm sure any of us can attest to being played or had someone try to play us when OD

You have to be quite savvy and a bit cynical as well as hopeful to use.

You have to be able identify mind gamers and cut them off quickly.

It is best to meet sooner than later for drink/coffee to check there is a connection before getting invested to soon.

Avoid hotels and going to theirs for dinner.

I made the latter one my own mistake and while men and women will say they are not after sex, they are hoping for and it makes some idiots humpy if you still say no or put others off.

If someone says to meet there say no.

If they decline after that you have had an escape.

*some men and women

Minx no I'm not married, I was but have no desire to ever be again! I am now in a sexless relationship with my cat

I kept my last LTR open as I don't feel monogamy is realistic for me - so we're in step on that one!

Clarentine, posters have been amazingly kind to you on this thread. I'm impressed at how kind people have been.

Clarentine, I'm sorry to say I think your ideas and opinions are naive and for that reason alone I would suggest you come off OD immediately. OD has a reputation for really horrible and unkind behaviour - but you have not had that, just 'dates' that haven't really come to anything. Which is disappointing, of course.

Examples of what I think are naive are eg expecting a man to accept sleeping in the same bed with you but not have sex, like a kind of kissy sleepover. This just doesn't happen between adults. You may want to wait for marriage/love before having sex but you don't then sleep in the same bed as a grown man and expect him to accept you won't have sex,

If you want to carry on OD then use much smaller, specialised sites that eg have similar views to you about sex and relationships. Other posters have said it is better to meet people quickly so you can see if you're attracted to one another. Perhaps in real life people write to one another like penfriends for a long time, then meet up, but OD doesn't work that way. It's a much faster pace and people on it are very focused about what they want. Get with the times, girl

Lastly, you can change your name on here if you don't want to be recognised from previous posts or threads.

Really sorry but you sound needy and this probably scares a lot of them off. Try a new dating site, the one you use doesn't sound great. Most men who book a hotel room are after a bit of how's your father I'm afraid. You live and learn I suppose.

I actually think a lot of the posts on here have been quite unfair to the OP.

No man is entitled to presume or expect sex just because you're sharing a bed. That's complete bullshit, and I'm really quite appalled anyone (male or female) would think otherwise.

I'm a mature woman in my 40s, my bf of the past 18 months is a similar age. We've both had a few previous partners, long term relationships etc. However, despite this, when we first got together, we didn't want to rush into sex. On a number of occasions in the first few weeks, we slept in the same bed. We were both happy to do so, and at no point did he try it on, he was happy to wait til we were both ready. Possibly I'm really lucky to have a super considerate partner, but I'd like to think any decent bloke would behave similarly.

We also considered ourselves to be in a relationship from our second date. So I don't think the OP thinking of the guy she went away with in boyfriendly terms was somehow odd, or beyond the pale. I'm sure he gave her ample reason to think that way.

I also think that unless you've been inexperienced in your 20s (as I was), you perhaps can't quite understand where the OP is coming from. The 'norm' is most people have their first boyfriend/girlfriend and embark on romantic and usually sexual relationships in their teens...when for whatever reason you don't fit into that it does inevitably set you apart. It does make you naive, and scared/apprehensive, and it makes men react to and treat you very differently. I had men refuse to date me in my early 20s because it was 'too much of a responsibility'! I suspect with hindsight they were just looking for a quick shag which was too complicated with me.

Honestly OP, I possibly wouldn't try OLD, unless you go for a site which is more geared to people who are waiting for marriage/LTR before they have sex (I know those sites exist in the US, am assuming they do in UK as well) OR if you are in any way religious, try joining a local church or ministry. Ultimately what you want to find are like-minded people. With the best will in the world, a lot of men (and women) are using OLD for sex/titillation rather than seeking a serious relationship, I just don't think - other than on a specialist site for people with similar principles/beliefs - you are going to meet the right kind of guy.

I do wish you luck with it though, and hope you meet someone who's right for you.

you sound like you've picked up some really weird internalised misogyny herw - that women only want sex as a kind of transaction

I have no internalised misogyny thank you, well no more than any other woman!

I think women should have sex when and with whom they want. I also think marriage and monogamy is something that many people aspire to, many fail at, and many are unhappy with. Its still some sort of ideal for many people. I don't have an opinion on what others do, I'm just pointing out that there is a contradiction in modern society, that's all. And I still believe that the vast majority of women aspire to the ideals of marriage.

It is absolutely right that sharing a bed with a man does not give them any right to expect sex.
In fact, I'm planning to tonight, for the first time (sleep, not sex) as it happens.

But what is a FACT is that some men are not good men. And some men are perfectly good men who think that a woman may change her mind. Not that no doesn't mean no. No ALWAYS means no. But it's perfectly common for a woman, during a date, to decide that her no has become a yes. So it's not heinous of a man to think that might happen.

Even though no means no and you should be able to bed share with whoever you want, in the early stages of online dating you don't know the man AT ALL. I don't care how many emails or the length of them. You don't know them. I'm taking a risk tonight that I can trust this man. But I'm aware it's a risk.
It just isn't a great idea to share a bed early on with someone you don't know, especially from the internet where it's pretty well established there are a large number of chances concentrated.

I trust my date. Still going to wear pyjamas in bed when I'm usually naked.

Totally agree with you Cabrinha

One of the problems when someone hasn't had sex and is a bit older (than is average for losing virginity) is that it becomes a big issue. They are a bit scared - both of the act and of letting a partner down sexually - and so they kind of make it a 'thing' that they cling to morally - 'I don't have sex'. I'm not saying that's the case with everyone as obviously some have religious reasons, but it can happen and OP I wonder if that is the case with you as you have said in this post that you want to wait until you're on the pill and then that you don't believe in sex before marriage and then that you wanted to wait until you are in love.

You also sound very intense and I can see why people would find that offputting. You need to relax a bit and let this first bit be all about fun and flirting, not about desperately trying to find a husband.

I also agree with everyone who said that going to a hotel room with a man you don't intend to have sex with is a bit silly.

Hi OP :)

I could easily write your post. I'm in your shoes due to religious views...
I wasn't bothered even at 30 to be married, that's just me...
I started to think about it when I was 32.
I had a straight marriage offer at 35, refused myself due to being scared and childish... Then had an offer for a relationship. I gave this poor guy so much headache and it didn't finish well. Why? Because for him relationship was only relationship. For me it was: "we date and then get married and then have sex" :D He is now happily married to someone who had sex with him when he wanted... I cried a lot... Whole year I did soul searching... I was/am on OLD, but on a serious one, and don't think I will be able to find someone at all.
(I should probably register on the religious one, but I don't practice and don't know if I am capable of accepting someone who does practice religion.)
As PP said, OLD is not for me and I know that...

The last guy also offered me to go away with him for few days.
My reply to his offer was: "I don't mind going somewhere, but I will stay in a separate room, and you will stay in separate one."
Probably my distrust to men in general didn't allow me to sleep with him in one bed, knowing that he will expect something...

I am amazed that you are so brave and stayed with him in one room.

The guy who offered me a relationship wasn't even from OLD, I knew him for few years before we got together... And yes, it was very intense, not what I wanted. I was desperate for romance :) Very cynical nowadays.

You say he paid for hotel and so on... Some men do expect something in return (but not all of them) if they pay.

With the previous one I felt myself like I owe him something... Although it's only how I felt.

IMHO, MN is the right place for you to be. It's the place where you will read many RL stories. They will help you to take your rose colored glasses of.

And yes, as PP said, date straight away, don't waste your time chatting online. Your time, effort, your emotions... It's just not worth it.

Good luck and keep believing :)

Sorry you've had a lousy time of OLD, Clarentine.

I see you said you have a very busy life but it might be worth seeing if you can jig your hobbies around a bit to fit in something that might have some men there. Is there something new you'd like to try, maybe a sport or evening classes?

Have you tried speed dating? It's not for everyone but maybe it would prevent you (or him) getting hopes up as you'd get the 'do we have chemistry' question out the way pretty quickly.

In my experience a lot of men expect sex if you sleep in the same bed but also some don't and naturally want to take their time without even having a conversation about it to make it clear it wasn't going to happen, I feel uncomfortable with women telling other women they are naive to share a bed with someone they trust and of course he expected sex, she had even made this clear to him. If you share a bed with a relative stranger then yes it would be sensible to think there is a high likelihood of him expecting sex and if you don't want that then best to wait before sharing a bed. Having been blamed for causing sexual harassment towards myself because I arranged to go for a coffee with someone I think we have to be very careful not to criticise women.

It sounds like you're doing all the courting from initial 'meet' to 'dating' to arguing to splitting up all through messages before you've even met them IRL. You come across as quite intense and that can be scary through messages alone even if you think you're being lighthearted. OLD is a pain in the arse but should be fun and not to be taken too seriously.

The guy in the hotel that everyone keeps on about, you wouldn't sleep with him because you weren't on the pill. Then it was that you wouldn't sleep with anyone unless you're married or living together then it's when they say they love you. We're confused and we haven't even met you.

As for the last guy, you were away, he had no need to message you. You took this as a slight and he probably ran to the hills away from this crazy person