Anger management issues

[Floflo10]

Hi, My husband and I been married 9 years fairly happily and we have a full on 7 yr old and a 4 yr old. Over the years when we've argued he has a habit of massively over reacting and swearing at me/out loud a lot. Or called me names if I done something daft (leaving hose pipe filling paddling pool for 9 hrs and leaving on Emersion heater). He will get so cross, not leave me alone, berate me and generally be unreasonably angry with me. He gets angry where he will smash his hands in doors/work tops, yell, shout swear words. He won't quieten down for the kids and will wake them. I hate them hearing shouting and swear words. It's not how I wanted my children brought up.

Last night he went out drinking 3-9pm. Got a taxi home and left the iPad in the taxi. He got in, clocked what he had done and started going mad. I was tired and quietly watching tv. He started shouting every s, f and c word SO loudly. Stomping around the house. Woke my children who were worried about the noise too. Refused to quiten down. He wanted to drive to taxi rank but I hid his keys as he was obviously over the limit. I eventually put on my clothes and went to train station/rank. Drunks were around and I was asking all the taxi drivers if they had dropped him off. I felt really vulnerable so decided to go home. I stopped down the road as I was scared he would shout again or ask for car keys. I made him get a taxi back and then I went back in the house to bed. He eventually came home and i made him sleep on the sofa.
I was shaking and crying telling him to stop yelling. He even went out the front garden and was yelling. I'm so ashamed of him. The neighbors undoubtedly heard him. My point is that he can't control his anger. He has shoved me on the very rare occasion and I don't think he would ever hurt me but I get scared of him being uncontrollable with anger. He has been on a brief stress management course but they obviously didn't help much.
I didn't want to talk to friends as I'm so ashamed of him. I'm really shook up by the whole situation too.
Should I just man up? I've told him how I feel. He feels awful and ashamed. To be honest it's the same thing every time. Regret and upset and then it happens again.
I'm not sure how to get my feeling across to him that this has to change because talking certainly hasn't helped so far.
I'm So sorry for essay. This is my first time on mumsnet in years. I've just hit rock bottom with him this time. I'm just looking for advice really. X

Stand up to him ..stand up for yourself ..stand up for your children ..lots of advice all around on how to go about this ...look it up
You have to .

I wouldn't say he's angry at me (not last night any way) He does love me. He just massively over reacts and last night nothing was directed at me he was just cross at himself. He did however have no respect for how his anger was coming across to me or the kids and how upsetting I find shouting and swearing when it comes from rage. Generally we get on. This happens mainly after drinking but not all the time and we can go weeks/months when all is well. He can't manage his stress from work well and then his anger is related to that. It's no excuse but we really do lead a normal life in between the outbursts. He's fine with the kids generally. When they test us to the limits. He explodes but I will get cross too. My son is very very full on/spirited/persistent and can cause a lot of stress sometimes. He's only little though. It's up to us to manage him. I've been in parenting courses and I think I manage him quite well but it's not easy. I know none of this excuses his behavior though.

Has your H been on any parenting courses ? Sounds like is the one most in need of them.

When Attila says he hates you, I think she means that he'd behave this way to whoever he had chosen for a spouse, because he's harbouring hateful feelings. Not that he hates you but the role you represent to him.

You are minimising again because you cannot or will not face the truth about him; that you married an emotionally abusive man (a man who is probably not a million miles from how your own dad acted when you were young either).

You only get on when you are completely subservient to him and he has you compliant and meek. You are walking on eggshells aka living in fear of him and his next outburst. You adapt your moods and life according to him whims and patterns of drinking. Your children see and pick up on all this and you cannot fully protect them from his abuse of you.

I would argue that your son is being unduly influenced by his dad's behaviour and acts accordingly. He sees you as a female and thus someone to be despised.

It matters not a jot that this is "infrequent"; one time of this is really one time too many. Do you not realise that the only level of abuse acceptable in a relationship is NONE.

You're right in one respect; none of this excuses his behaviour though. There is really no justification for his actions, infact abusive men usually say that its the women's fault, that she made him do what he did to her etc.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Can you really answer that question?.

No. He hasn't.
Ahhh ok.

When Attila says he hates you, I think she means that he'd behave this way to whoever he had chosen for a spouse, because he's harbouring hateful feelings. Not that he hates you but the role you represent to him

What Pictish says is correct, should have made myself clearer there.

This man would indeed have behaved the self same regardless of whom he married. Such men hate women, all of them (and particularly their mother).

Why do you think your son is full on/challenging/loud/etc? He's learning it from his dad.

Zero tolerance for your husbands behaviour ..start today
It's not ok

I've never thought of it as a hatred to women. He's really not like that all. He loves his mum and has no problem with her or me for that matter of fact. He has a lot of respect for the women who work for him and me. just unexplainable outbursts that can't be controlled when he drinks.

You are so scared by this man's anger that you left your children alone with him drunk, angry, shouting and swearing in the hopes of pacifying him.

Your DC hear much more than you think. Trust me I have been this child.

They will have been scared. They are going to learn to pacify violent angry men or be one when they grow up. Because this is what you are showing them.

I really feel for you - been there done that.

It may not help you but what worked for me was to understand that whilst I could not control his responses, I could control how I responded. It may go against the grain, but are there other ways you think you could respond? What might happen (for example) if you were to say calmly (if at all possible!) 'I'm sorry you are so agitated by this - what can I do to help?' or ''I know you don't mean this but your behaviour is freaking me out so I think it's best if I go somewhere else until you have calmed down'? Might these be possibilities?

PS Am not trying to make this your responsibility - it's just that your posts to date suggest you want to focus on working this out rather than kicking his arse to the kerb.

Hi OP, what do you want to get out of this thread?

Contributors - including some of MN's finest - have distilled this intelligently for you. They have established that your H does not in fact have anger management issues, he does have a problem with you however. He is clearly abusive and keeps you on edge from month to month, or however long the intervals are between him exploding at you.

All this is directed at you.

You are the one who suffers the humiliation, the collateral damage, the powerlessness.

You are the one you scuttles round trying to pacify him and trying to do whatever it takes to stop him humiiating you in front of your children or your neighbours.

You are the one who is too ashamed to tell her friends about his despicable behaviour. Shame? Who should be ashamed here. Why are you carrying his shame? Not right. Not right at all.

The right response is 'How dare he? How fucking dare he?'. You are the one who deserves to be angry, but you dare not.

Don't try to justify it with alcohol or the idea that he loves his mum. It doesn't matter that he loves his mum when he is showing you pure hatred and contempt.

I know it is hard but you need to wake up. You are in an abusive relationship with an abuser. He is a domestic terrorist. Doesn't matter if he only detonates every now and again, the effect is achieved. Terrorists don't have to do much to spread fear and terror. The fear is enough to keep you under control. You are being controlled by his abusive outbursts. It is vile and indefensible. There is NO POSSIBLE EXCUSE for his behaviour. Once you've acknowledged that, then there is a path to follow. If you stay in 'justifying mode', then there will be years and years more of this.

I say this with extreme sympathy and empathy OP. Don't waste your life making allowances for this man who gives himself permission to terrorise you. Really, ask yourself, What kind of human being does that?

p.s. tell someone in RL. Please, your friends will understand and support you. Don't take on shame that is not yours. You have nothing to be ashamed of. He relies on your shame isolating you from people who can support you. Don't let him do that to you.

Mmm, I never had this as a child, but my dd and her ex used to have screaming matches and my nerves were in bits just from hearing it through the walls, I can only imagine how much more terrifying it is for a child to hear. I'm also sure that your son's behaviour will improve if he doesn't have to hear this sort of stuff. Said dd and her ex split up after a shouting match when their baby was two months old and the baby was actually angry for another two weeks afterwards. She is now an extremely happy and easy-going two-year-old. Heaven knows how many children are considered difficult children, when in fact they have been harmed by angry parents.

I do think calling the police might change his attitude, but that would mean living on tenderhooks waiting for the next scene and then living on tenderhooks for months and years afterwards to see if it worked.

should I just man up?

Yea, you should just woman up and get this sorry state of a man out of your life.

You and your children will thank you for it

Please, why are you letting this man be more important than you and your children's lives and future?!

I got out of an abusive marriage. So can you! You just need to find your inner strength...

you mention his anger stems from being frustrated about work. When he becomes frustrated at work, with his boss or colleagues does he bang his hands, swear, shout and storm about?

If the answer Is no then it's not an anger management issue. It's an excuse he uses to get you to put up with his outbursts.

You are right 43percent. I know u are. I've been in a haze of playing things down and thinking they may improve. I'm going to book a relate session and see what happens with that first. Plus I'm asking him to speak to a professional. He owns the company so the stress can be quite continuous. He doesn't talk to me much about it so if an outburst happens (not always directed at me. But just general anger at a situation he can't control) it's not until he says it's been a stressful day do I find out. I don't get much more out of him.

Hi OP,

If you've got the cash, I strongly advise you go to see a counsellor on an individual basis or perhaps you have booked the Relate session just for yourself?

How would he react to you going to see someone on your own? The answer might tell you something interesting in itself.

My experience of 'doing Relate' with an EA man was that he used it as a weapon and an excuse to terrify me even more. Be very careful about joint counselling in this situation. You need to feel safe in the sessions, you want to be able honestly to express your feelings in that environment. Don't make yourself more vulnerable if he is likely to make you 'pay' for it later.

Sorry to sound negative, but joint counselling is not advised in an abusive situation. A good counsellor will recognise this in the course of a couple of sessions, I should think.

I 'did Relate' with my XH. Every week, I was shrunk into the side of the sofa we were sitting on, weeping in horror at what he was telling the therapist about what kind of person I was. He would never talk about the sessions, before or after, just punished me with stony silence and that barely suppressed fury that taught me that I should have no opinion.

I'm not sure how to get my feeling across to him that this has to change because talking certainly hasn't helped so far.

I felt exactly that, and hope that by going to Relate, somehow I would get through to him and that we needed a third party (therapist) to somehow referee and that he would finally 'get it.' There was my mistake. My communication skills were not the problem, his righteous attachment to punishing me for my mistakes and flaws was the problem. And there was nothing I could do about that except get him away from me, before the dcs became 24hour prisoners in a home where one beloved parent abuses and controls the other. I couldn't stand that prospect. Nor the certainty that I would become a stammering shell of the person I used to be.

I haven't booked one yet but I think you're right hill farmer. Maybe by myself is better first.
I do feel safe. He'd never hurt me but I'm sure he'd have a lot to say about me too in a session. But I guess they have to see both sides of the story?
I'd have to warn him that the shit is going to hit the fan in the sessions but we need to deal with it if we want to save the marriage. If he had issues with me at home after then I can safely say the marriage has ended.

He does punish me for my mistakes though. The way he reacts to them isn't justified in my eyes. I deal with stuff and learn from it. I don't go mental and persucute him over things. He likes to be able to lay the blame somewhere. He said I like to win points in arguments. None of this ever crosses my mind. I'm just trying to get my point across to him but he sees it as him having to back down and apologise. Which he never likes to do particularly.

You need to stop playing things down and properly see how this relationship is affecting both you and your children to their detriment.

Relationships like the one you are in do not improve; all that happens is that you become further ground down over time (which is what he wants to happen in the first place).

Relate are not always helpful either when it comes to abusive relationships and if you do book a session I would advise you to go on your own. Any joint session with him will be a waste of time and he could well use that to bamboozle the counsellor. Joint counselling as well is NEVER recommended where there has been abuse of any type within the relationship.

Do not subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. (This is what you have been doing). You have always co-operated; he has never and will never co-operate.

Which leads me on to the question of what will you do if he refuses to speak to a professional person?. Why are you anyway doing all the legwork here?.

He does not have to hit you to hurt you; he is already hurting you (and by turn your children) enough already. Do NOT do any joint counselling with him under any circumstances.

Counselling for you alone though is a must. You need to be able to speak freely and safely in a controlled environment.

He is also projecting his own behaviour onto you by telling you that you like to score points in arguments. Again by doing that, he is not taking any responsibility for his actions. Its all part of the abusive man's overall script.

And that's another thing.

NO decent counsellor worth their salt would ever see the two of you together anyway due to his ongoing abuse of you.

Do not do joint counselling with this man

Echo that - just don't. Please don't. Everything you've written today shows that individual counselling is the only way to go.

There isn't a marriage here to save.