Sex/Relationship with a Muslim Man

[LukeSkyWankFest]

Hi all. I can't post this in Sex as I deregged and rejoined after the hacking fiasco last month.

So, about a month or so ago I met a 27 year old Muslim man from Jerusalem. He is working over here for 1 year with an international US company. He has been over since about May. We met at a social event (which attracts mostly single people I guess) and swapped phone numbers. We began texting a LOT in that crazy addicted way. He went back to Jerusalem for a couple of weeks during which the texting continued and we met up on his return. Since then we have spent a lot of time together. He is very nice, kind, affectionate etc. We have discussed a lot of deeper personal issues and I feel there is an emotional connection. He has also expressed that he feels this.

So, when we were texting he told me he was a virgin, however he has now had sex with me. I can't get my head around this. It seems so strange to me to wait this long before having sex, which would to me imply it is important to him within his culture/religion, and then to just get on with it with someone you have known properly for only a few weeks. The way he talks about his family/culture/religion sounds very traditional and I can't work out why having sex has suddenly become acceptable to him.

I know there is a stereotype of Muslim men coming over here and having sex with western women because it is easier/more acceptable in our culture. It makes me feel pretty rubbish to think this is what's happening and I have begun to feel very insecure and paranoid. Part of me is wondering if he even was a virgin or not, or if it could be something he said to make me feel special :( I feel suspicious of his motives and it is ruining it for me, although his behaviour hasn't actually changed towards me.

I don't really know what I'm asking to be honest. I just wanted to get it out. Does anyone have any experience of anything like this?

Forget the religious aspect thats a red herring. Does the situation add up to you???

ps/ doesn't to me.

Ok, I'm speaking as someone whose lived the past ten years in the Middle East and dated whilst here. I wouldn't trust it, for precisely the reasons you've already said, and the issue of he might be looking for a passport (presumably he's Palestinian?)

My general experience is that the men here are looking for either sex or marriage, and if you have sex before marriage that makes you not marriage material.

(Everyone can feel free to call me racist or stereotypical, or whatever, just saying what's generally been my experience).

Yes he's palestinian but holds an Israeli passport. Does this make a difference in terms of him potentially being after a UK passport?

To be honest, I don't think marriage is on the cards anyway. I would have some concerns at getting married to a Muslim (I this makes me racist, sorry) and especially one who comes from a very traditional background. Plus he has been at great pains to say it is likely he will go back at the end of 2016 and that he is concerned that this will hurt both me and him. So I don't feel he has promised me a future or anything like that. Generally I feel like he is an honest, sensitive guy, but I feel really suspicious over the sex. I have asked him and he said he didn't know why it was okay for him now and that he knew it wasnt right.

DrMorbius, if this was just a guy I met on a night out, same culture etc, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we are now having sex. it's been an intense, crazy few weeks with lots of anticipation at seeing each other etc. and in my experience it's hard to kelp your hands off each other after that build up.

so it's the very fact he is a Muslim who says he has held off for all this time which is raising the question for me.

maybe I'm overthinking the whole thing and it's just a case of red blooded lust winning over values/morality. Why do I feel so insecure though? I feel like the fact he has gone against his values must mean I mean nothing to him :/

My friend was dating, then living with, a Syrian muslim man while they were both at University. After 3 years, he went back to Syria and married the woman he had been matched with. I wouldn't like the fact that this relationship can probably go nowhere beyond where it's at now, it would be hard to build any sort of intimacy knowing it's only temporary.

It does sound plausible that he would never have had sex. It's not acceptable where he's from.
That doesn't mean sexual relationships outside marriage don't happen, but it's not the norm.
It also might mean that the opportunity never presented itself to him and now it has and he's free to have sex.
He may think the world of you or he may not. You're instincts are telling you something. I'd go with that.

LukeSkyWankFest I think you may have taken me too literally (BTW I have worked in the ME for the last 25 years). My point was, did he act like a 27 year old man who has never had sex? Does his reasons for why has he not had sex add up?? Does his general demeanor add up etc etc??

Sounds like somehting doesn't add up or you wouldn't be on here.

He he know what he was doing during sex?

"I feel like the fact he has gone against his values must mean I mean nothing to him :/"

I would actually see this the other way around - that if he wasn't that keen on you he would have obeyed the laws of his religion and social norms and not had sex with you.

In my experience though there is a lot of bandwidth between men/women who are nominally Muslim but don't attend mosque, smoke and drink, don't keep halal, don't fast during Ramadan, and have sex outside marriage, and those who are actually religious and observe all the laws and cultural norms. I know one Muslim woman who observes all the dietary stuff, so keeps halal, doesn't drink, fasts at Ramadan, but is quite happy to have sex before marriage.

(Having said that, I have only dated/been friends with Muslims who were born in the UK.)

It's a minefield if my friends' experiences are anything to go by. It's more often a problem with the family than the man, but then they become the same thing.

Friend #1 dated a Muslim man for 5 years. Very serious relationship, in her eyes for keeps. Wanted marriage, babies everything. Apparently he did too, but she was kept a secret from his family for the entire 5 years. Relationship ended over this. She was heartbroken.

Friend #2 is a Muslim man. He was dating a white girl. His mother was absolutely incandescent and would say in front of anyone present that he must not be with a white girl. It wasn't exactly that she was racist, she is happy for him to have white friends of both genders but they are just not for marrying. Mummy forced him to marry an "appropriate" girl whose mummy was also in on the deal. They are making the best they can of it, but it's not brilliant. I found this hard to understand in the UK in the 2010s. This bloke was born here fgs .

Luke, the bit that stands out from your post is nothing about his cultural background or motivations, it's that you say 'he texted that he was a virgin however he has now had sex with me' - you also, presumably, had sex with him, it was a mutual decision, mutual consent, mutual lust? Why so passive about your part in this?

And can you unravel why exactly whether or not he was a virgin matters so much, if you are not regarding him as a potential life partner, either? It's perfectly plausible he never had sex. It's plausible he's had sex with men (in my experience of the ME, it's pretty widespread because of heterosexual sex being widely policed, but very few of the men doing it would consider themselves gay or bi.) Its plausible he never had sex until he left his home country. It's plausible he's never had sex that wasn't paid for. It's plausible he's never had sex with a woman he met socially. It's plausible he's been betrothed to a cousin for years.

Both his brother and sister were matches for marriage. I asked him why he hadn't been and he said because he wasn't ready yet, and that as soon as he decides he is, everyone in his family will be trying to find him a match, unless he has found someone else he wants to
marry.

so I really don't feel like he is bullshitting me into thinking this has a future.

there are other aspects of his religion he doesn't stick to - ie he doesn't pray 5x a day although he says he knows he should and he believes it is the right thing to do.

Regardless of the facts this is a relationship going nowhere.. I would personally remove myself before you get hurt.

helpmeout it is EXACTLY that his mother is a racist.
And Luke - sorry but he had sex with you because he could. This isn't going anywhere. Don't waste your time, energy and emotions.

As long as you are happy, that is the main thing

The cynic in me says the following:

1. Passport?
2. His family may have already have him married off to a girl back home when he was a youngster
3. How would you feel about moving to where he lives and all the restrictions bring?
4. Ask if you can meet his family - Alarm bells should start ringing if for one reason or another, it can't be arranged

Bottom Line - Must always be your decision and yours alone

Irrespective of my comments above, good luck with the relationship :)

Hi OP,

I'm a Muslim woman, aged 27 too. Born and raised in UK, but I'm not from ME ethnically.

From my understanding, the 'devout' Muslim men won't have friends of the opposite sex.

I have seen lots of cases where Muslim men from abroad come here and then marry non-Muslim ladies, some Eastern European women, some English. I'm not going to speculate their intention behind these relationships, but in most cases, they (in)conveniently tend to end after they have residency in this country.

Obviously not all cases are the same, and some have great loving relationships.

In regards to his virginity. Maybe he was a virgin? Maybe he wasn't? Maybe he is already married 'back home' with children?

It could be anything.

But he has stated he is leaving end of next year. If you continue this relationship until next year and he happens to mention that he would rather stay here and he needs legal papers/marriage, then you will know for real I guess?

It's a tricky situation.

I'll try to answer everything - this will be long!

It's not so much him being a virgin that matters to me, it's more that I feel worried that he might be using me for sex, or lying to me in some way. I wanted to have sex with him of course and now I have I feel very vulnerable emotionally and I'm worried I'm going to be hurt. I'm worried he will think less of me now. I feel worried that at some point he will want to realign himself with his religion and I will be seen as a sin and just abandoned, regardless of how he feels. I think perhaps the fact he fundamentally views sex differently to me makes me feel really insecure.

Tiggeryoubastard's comment sums up my fears - he had/is having sex with me because he can. And I mean nothing to him. Even knowing this is really really unlikely to go anywhere, I still don't want to be having sex with someone who is using me just because he can.

Re past relationships he said he was with a girl for a year but didn't have sex (did everything else) and then it ended in 2012 because he didn't want to marry her. No relationships since then. He said if he had wanted to have sex it would be easy to find it in Israel. He also said he would have concerns about marrying a Muslim girl who would have sex as it would mean she was 'very far from God'. He knows the same thinking applies to him. I asked if he would want to marry a girl if she was no longer a virgin and he said it depended on the girl and I got the impression he would rather not know.

I don't think he is married. He lived at home with his family before moving here. I know I can't be sure but he has showed me videos of him with his friends and family, and is happy for me to scroll through pictures on his phone etc.

We've discussed his family's expectations. He makes no excuses about it to me and I know he has not told them about me and that he would find it very hard to. He said they would be especially surprised that HE was doing this. He carries a lot of responsibility towards his family - financially and emotionally - they are his focus. There have been a lot of big family struggles over the past few years and he has been instrumental in picking up the pieces. I know he finds it hard being over here away from them. I get the impression

Re general demeanour, I feel okay about this. He wants to spend time with me, is kind, attentive, likes cooking for me etc. He seems to be honest about where we stand - ie he makes no promises.

Re sex, the first couple of attempts were non-starters. Since then it has been very slow/tentative with him stopping all the time to try and prevent it ending quickly. I don't know if this is normal for a virgin man or not - I have never been someone's first before - always been with more experienced men than me.

I can't really imagine moving to Jerusalem. It's never entered my head before. This entire situation is new to me. I don't even have any Muslim friends I could discuss it with.

I guess ultimately it comes down to fear I am going to get hurt, and that it feels totally out of my control. Maybe it's my own fear making me feel paranoid. Also I tend to veer on the cynical side of relationships these days having been hurt before, so that probably isnt helping.

Had a re-read of your post

He is Palestinian with an Israeli passport??? Hmmm, alarm bells would be ringing inmy head

Butterflies has made some valid points as well

Time will tell though - Tricky one, which is not really an answer though

The ME is a mess at present hence the large numbers of migrants coming to Europe and assuming the worst, if he got a European passport, you may be left in the lurch

Go with your gut instinct as that is usually correct

EngTech can you tell me why alarm bells be ringing in your head at that? He has told me that if he gives up his Israeli passport for a Palestinian one it will become more problematic for him to move around freely/get a decent job in Israel etc. so he is holding on to it for practical purposes than anything else. Does that sounds plausible?

I can't answer the question of whether he is after a UK passport from me. He hasn't given me any indication of this so far, but who knows.

Just a quick question re the passport situation. I hold a UK passport, but I don't live in the UK. I have met him in this other country I live in (in the EU). I have no immediate intentions of moving back to the UK. Would he even be eligible for a UK passport purely on the basis of marrying me, or would he have to reside in the UK for a period of time as well first?

No, its not that easy to get a UK passport.

I

i want to know why the isralei palestinian passport thing is odd. I am CLUELESS about the practicalities of being a palestinian in Israel