Why ARE some men so horrible to women?

[jezestbelle]

I recently posted about an awful weekend in Paris essentially spoiled by street harassment or other womens sad stories about it. I have to admit it has kind of coloured my view of men as Ive returned to London and to work. I am not naive or stupid, I know that most people do not engage in this kind of behaviour, but Im just really trying to fathom why, what it is they who do it get out of it. I mean if occsaionally a woman cracked and said ok then I will go to bed with you as a result of catcalling or whatever well I still wouldnt agree with it but you could see a certain logic..but I refuse to believe that has ever happened.
Another thing Ive noticed is women I think are almost self hating and almost gravitate to men who treat them badly, again kind of unfathomable... Also am kind of fearful of the male sex drive right now more for my lovely DD than me. If it really is as powerful as they say can it actually be controlled? I know I may sound paranoid but this is where my head is at. I should add that I do know some really lovely kind and genuine guys who would never dream of harassing a woman, I am even wondering about them is it just that they have supreme self control or something?

ThisIsFolkGirl I live in hope!

I just an't fathom when or how it became completely acceptable to make a passing comment on a woman's sex life, body, hair colour (i.e carpets and curtains) or general nature in a derogatory manner, as if it is part of everyday small talk.

I think some men simply cannot imagine being a woman - as in they don't see that it is pure 'luck' that they were born male. They can't see how lucky they have it, because they are on that side of the fence, and hate being told they have it lucky and are simply taking the 'luck' for granted which is why they can't see it. Then they get offended thinking you are accusing them of being stupid for not being aware of it and it all gets very personal...

Leaving aside religion, which I'm always happy to do, if you're that way out, if you can only make yourself feel good by making someone else feel threatened, helpless, overpowered, afraid, why would you not pick on a woman? They're smaller than you, and unless they went out dressed in a burqa, could probably be accused by your defence of asking for it.
Fuckwits abound. They were probably less actually harmful, I think, in the recent past when their hilarious antics (PHWOARRR! Get 'em out for the boys!) were regarded as a bit of peer-accepted banter. Now they're not, it's cranked up a gear into actually dangerous.

I think misogyny is getting worse, not better, I think that as a reaction to more interest in feminism.

I like that The Women's Equality party, plan to put in a political candidate against anyone not a feminist. That will shake things up.

Just reading through earlier posts and was interested by the article voyage posted - it says "Although women in the study don't appear to receive more online abuse, the abuse they receive does seem to focus more on their being women than on anything they have said or done."

Which I think is very telling. Not only is it easier for people (of both sex) to harass a woman online for her sex or looks alone and without having done anything to publicly stir up opinion and that men who actually DO SOMETHING wrong/publicly unacceptable get harassment focussing on that crime/action/viewpoint.

It also seems to be rather apt considering Jeffrey who can't seem to show anyone why he is still slavishly attempting to stop this site other than proffering the rather lame "because it is anti-Dads".

A lot of men are jealous of the sexual attention women receive. They can't understand why women wouldn't want to be propositioned all the time, because they would love it.

Basic lack of empathy.

"And I'm obliged to answer your constant questions, antagonistic prods and mis representations for what reason ?"

All three of them?

Well, for starters, when you make categoric statements in the course of a discussion, it is usual to provide supporting evidence.

I would not wish you to feel obliged VoD at all, but I'm still curious as to what your purpose is here re the OP.

Lily my friend has found that a burqa is no protection against it.

I think that if you can be seen, then the dicks feel entitled to comment. But if you are covered, then the dicks are angered that you've denied them their male right to gaze upon you.

Dicks is dicks.

Aloysha - maybe. They need to imagine being propositioned frequently by men who are much bigger than them, though. Ones who sometimes look scary, touch them, and won't leave them alone. Starting when they are children. For many of them, that might seem far less of an appealing prospect.

I think to have a serious discussion on this subject you have to be grown up, not get drawn into cliche'd thinking and brutally honest. Then you can evaluate the multi-dimensional profile of the perpetrator types. Whether it be predominantly a socio-economic, educational, cultural or an ethnic influence. However questioning these areas in a rigorous debate is not PC.

I may venture that the cultures where my DD in particular has mentioned as having far less or no harassment have certain things in common
-a history of political engagement

-a matriarchal society
-a homogenous culture not in thrall to Hollywood values

So certain places on the same continent are bloody awful for women and others are pretty blissfull in terms of how they are treated..I think it is time the misogyny of certain places was exposed and likewise the opposite. My DD broadly agreed with www.womensadventuremagazine.com/travel/top-10-countries-for-solo-travel-for-women/

Don't be silly DrMorbius

All you need to do is ask women and girls around the world what the people who do this have in common. The answer is, they are men.

It is nothing to do with being "PC" to note that when this topic comes up, women say "when a man does this etc" and then some (usually) men come along and say OH but it's those men who do this, isn't it. Now let's all talk about how they are unusually brown / got that religion with the hats / benefits types / football supporter types / whatever it is and NOT men like me and mine obviously. And let's talk about how awful their religion / upbringing / whatever is and slag them off generally, and ignore the fact that the women who were talking about it in the first place just say it is MEN. Not these ones, or those ones, the recently arrived ones, the ones with bicycles, or the ones who read the standard. It cuts across all sorts of men, but men don't want to hear that do they, they like to use it as evidence that whichever group of men they don't like, are all wrong.

So don't make your face at us, take it to the daily mail.

Where is there a matriarchal society, jesetz? I have read a lot that there aren't any! So would be really interested to hear.

I wasn't aware of any matriarchal societies, ever.

Don't be silly DrMorbius - All you need to do is ask women and girls around the world what the people who do this have in common. The answer is, they are men

Around the world!!! So you have global experience Whirlpool???

I work in the Middle East and where i work men would never make comments to a woman, unless she was not appropriately dressed for the environment.

Must admit I was slightly wrong-footed by the pc thing just now.

VoD - no insinuation carried with my question- really -, and I don't feel obliged - I was being honest-hearted.

Yes we are all aware it's a parenting forum and you it seems are a parent, as am I so that wasn't the query. It was 'what is your purpose here' i.e. not generally but on this thread?

well whirlpool according to my DD who was on a 6m placement at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland for one. She said she did not get any trouble there at all and supposedly the dominance of the Irish mother is behind it. I think there is a place in China which is traditionally matriarchal as well. Depends on what you hear of course

I work in the Middle East and where i work men would never make comments to a woman, unless she was not appropriately dressed for the environment.

What exactly does that mean?

jezestbelle, I'm not suggesting that every woman in Ireland is an adherent of orthodox Catholicism, but a great deal of them to form the client group of abortion tourists to the UK. If that is matriarchal, maybe the dictionary has the definition wrong? If this gets moved to the religion forum, I won't reply because it will be one click too many for an Old Discussion.

I can only really speak for the UK, but IME I've had the most trouble with white men with British accents. I've had moderate harassment (ie verbally abusive but not physically) from people to sound terribly posh, people who have strong regional accents, coworkers who were well educated, football fans (tho I have had football fans intervene on my behalf). I've never noticed any religious clothing or jewellery on anyone who has harassed me.

So here, in the UK, in my experience, the only thing these men seem to have in common is that they are men.