Who gets the snip?

[feministwithtitsin]

Hi ladies (and gents)

Me and my DH have just had our 2 DC. We are both still relatively young (I am 30, DH is 29). We have both decided that 2 children is enough for us, our family is complete. I want to retrain and focus on my career in a year or so, and, although my DH probably would like more children, we have decided that 2 is enough as we would be better financially, and I would keep my sanity!

I have had 2 caesareans, the first was a nightmare as I had an infection and the recovery time was a nightmare (5 days in hospital, alot of pain etc) the second was textbook.

As we are both young, neither of us would be looking to get the snip for at least another 5 years, just to be 100% sure, as by that time out fertility would have dropped and I think it would be too disruptive to my career, and life in general, to be having a newborn after that.

So for the next 5 years, I will be on some kind of hormone contraceptive, as condoms are too much of a pain.

The question is who should get the snip? I think my DH should as I have had 2 caseareans already and the op itself is easier, he thinks I should because the risks of vascetomies scare him (long term ball pain etc)

So, mumsnet jury! What is your verdict

I only know of one GP that told the couple about PVPS correctly. They decided not to bother (they not he).

Most people I speak to and fellas who have had the snip never even knew PVPS existed. Those that have it go yeh, wish I'd been told. The incidence is hushed up and you will not be told the consequences at the time you make a decision.

I asked what if I get PVPS The GP said you'd have to see a Urologist. That's it.

See the Urologist and find out the truth.

I just had a quick google thefuzz and saw that a reversal can help sometimes and surgery to free the nerve. Has any surgery been mentioned?

I hate to say it TheFuzz, but most women would not break up with a man who was incapable of PIV sex because there are plenty of other ways for a woman to have an enjoyable sex life. The fact that YOUR libido is shot and you can't be arsed with any of it, however, is exactly why some women WOULD consider ending a relationship.

I think we would all understand why constant pain and the loss of your libido wold make a partner depressed and frustrated, however I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that partner to still do whatever they could to make the other one happy.

It all sounds a bit me, me, me and while we all sympathise with your predicament, your wife's sex life COULD still be fulfilling and she COULD continue to have a happy life with you. However, if you are unwilling to offer anything other than cuddles because there's nothing in it for you then she would have every right to say that the relationship is not giving her what she needs, an affectionate loving partner who wants to make her happy.

I would like to think that if anything happened to kill my libido I would still want to give my DP head and do lovely things for him and he would still get me naked, stroke me all over, snog my face off and massage me, give me foot rubs etc. all of which can be enjoyed without it ending in actual sex.

I know that feeling down about life in general can put a negative slant on things, but your insistance that your wife would be better off without you relies on the idea that your penis is the most important thing about you. While the lask of PIV sex is undoubtedly a big loss to your marriage, there should be plenty more to back it up.

if i was you thefuzz, i'd be trying him

sassandfaff: TheFuzz is a long term poster, who has written extensively about the tried and failed treatment options. If you search his username, you'll will find all those, as it unfolded. You will also find posts from other MNetters on some of those about how vasectomy went wrong for them.

It's not a comfortable thought to realise that treatment options are limited, and do not always work.

My point us you will be making a decision without all the facts.

PS a reversal won't work as I've already had part of my left ball cut off because of the snip (under General and I didn't die) so have no pipes or epdidymis left.

It's not about me me me. I'm having to be straight to my missus that I'm likely to be a flop with all the latest meds.

How many couples here, before your partner or you had sterilisation actually knew the risks and REAL consequences.

I for one didn't.

PS I was playing with you about the missus getting rid. It's usually the stock answer on mums net. Divorce the bastards as apparently we are all bastards.

Sorry thefuzz I didn't know you were well known for that reason.

I don't tend to search people to find out extra stuff about them. So my ignorance was just that.

I will ask my dp what he was told, because i didn't go with him, but i think i would still have wanted him to have it, and i think he would have still done it.

From the limited googling that i did (not wiki) i saw a 1-5% chance of the severe pain that thefuzz is suffering. (higher for pild and moderate/ intermittent) I doubt that would have changed either of our minds

I know a woman through here (ante natal threads) who at 110lbs wet through went into labour and described pain during labour beyond what I experienced. When the baby's head got down the birth canal the babies shoulders got struck.

The doctor had to put his hand in to try and push the baby out the birth canal, so that an emergency c-section could be performed. She described in very vivid details how cut/ripped and traumatised she was.

I still had another pregnancy. Most women still would.

It is as someone said, only real when it actually happens to you.

sorry forgot to say the baby was 11lbs. No-one picked up on that in her pregnancy.

I'm currently doing battle with the NHS to find out what advice people are getting as two practices I dealt with said there was no PVPS and there were no side effects.

I've somehow come out really badly as my testes aren't producing testosterone following the two surgeries but that could be down to the left being botched (very painful snip plus blood supply snipped too).

My personal goal is that correct pre surgery advice is given. Any other surgery I've been told what can go wrong. My second op after the snip was 50 50 but because of the pain I was ok if the testicle didn't survive.

My key goal is to ensure couples are told exactly how this can go wrong. How can the GP not tell you about complications but when you get to see hospital staff they say complications are very common and they see lots of fellas. Something is wrong there.

I am all for choice, but do it with full knowledge and not some watered down truth.

OP you are absolutely right to have this conversation now, even though it won't be relevant for a few years yet (of course you don't need MN to validate that, but thought it worth saying after all the bullshit about you pressuring your dh)

DH and I are both in our 40's, two children, no intention of having more even if anything were to happen to the other one. We have discussed surgical sterilisation a number of times. DH doesn't want a vasectomy, he's heard stories such as the PP with chronic life changing pain and he doesn't want to take the risk. I must admit I felt disappointed in his decision at first but I had a word with myself and got over it - yes I had the pregnancies, labours, breastfeeding etc etc to deal with but DH has had no end of hospital admissions for various reasons including one very serious illness and he's a) sick of being poked and prodded and doesn't want it unless it's necessary for his own health and b) doesn't want to take the risk of ending up with a (third) chronic condition. How on earth can I make him feel bad - he's being perfectly rational about it imo.

I had a blazing row robust discussion with an acquaintance about it - she'd banned her dh from coming (fnar) anywhere near her until he'd had the snip once they'd had dc2. She'd suffered numerous miscarriages and had two sections and vehemently felt that she'd done her bit for their fertility or otherwise. I still felt she was wrong to effectively force her dh into a procedure he may not have wanted. He did have the snip, for all I know he could have known the risks and made his own decision to go ahead anyway,. but she made such a song and dance about her sex ban I do wonder. Poor bloke.

I am seriously considering sterilisation myself but the risk of failure does scare me. I am absolutely 100% sure I don't want another child. My BMI is also higher than it should be so not even sure I'd be accepted for this kind of non essential surgery anyway. Hormonal contraception doesn't work for me, I have MH issues anyway and the pill and the implant both made it worse.

So at the moment we are sticking with barrier methods and non PIV sex. Not necessarily what I would have chosen for myself but we are happy with it and as no contraceptive solution really works for us so that's what we're left with.

I wanted more children but was advised against it. DH didn't want any more after the advice. He had the op as he felt more strongly about it and he felt I'd been through enough surgery.

I do a lot of sport and there is a high risk of injury and even death. I've been injured with broken bones, cuts and abrasions and surgery to put things right. I've always managed to get right again.

I understand the risks. I didn't understand the risks of this little surgery. It's not exactly invasive but I never knew the implications. The pain has meant doing the sport I love difficult and the injections have ruled me out of ant competition as it's classed as a performance enhancing drug. I only just get enough to feel normal and my bloods aren't up to normal yet, but it has a worldwide ban.

I have absolutely no health conditions and am physically very fit, all bar this little op.

My wife has never had a GA, I've had numerous and injuries but still opted for the snip as it's generally more reliable. We were just not aware of the severity of the complications.

I'd expected to be in work after the weekend but ended up off for a month. Then more time off for the second op and more time since. I've had over 3 months off suck since the snip and I am still off at times with severe pain. Fortunately I get sick pay but I've already had to have various HR procedures.

God knows what would have happened if I was self employed, in a manual job (at least I can sit when the pain is bad) or worked for a small employer. We would have been in serious financial difficulty. I'm lucky in that respect. I know PVPS sufferers that are out of work.

Catching up on this thread, but I decided that I should get a vasectomy, suggested it to DW.
We both looked into it and both came to the conclusion that we didn't like the look of the risks.
She has never taken any hormonal contraception (well, not with me and not for the last 19 years).
Her being sterilised has never been mentioned but I wouldn't want her to face those risks.
So we stick to condoms and have done since last child was born 8 years ago and don't plan on changing.

thefuzz- you make some interesting points.

It seems you have had more than your fair share of surgical procedures.
Which gets me thinking about the "taking one for the team" idea, and how by logical extension the partner who has had less in the way of physical trauma and medical interventions should be the one taking the hit.
My OH has had surgery on both arms, a head injury requiring surgery, corrective surgery for a botched circumcision done to him as a baby.
I however have sailed though my pregnancies, very easy births, no stitches, no incontinence, no complications, not even a stretch mark- enjoyingg sex again 10 days after birth. My body feels the same as it did before having kids.

So by that logic if we were considering sterilisation, it should be me, not my OH, as I have had less suffering and medical intervention during the course of our relationship?

Except it doesn't work like that- because that wouldn't be fair.

Are you deliberately being obtuse four?

Of course it can work like that if you deem yourself to have suffered less intrusive procedures, operations and deem yourself to be the least likely to suffer complications.

If you actively wanted to be sterilised, I would see no great merit in someone insisting it has to be your dh.

When I've suffered everything in relation to having dc's and my dp suffered nothing more than a dent in his bank balance and a few broken nights sleep, then as a family and a partnership I do feel like it was his turn to take one for the team.

Like I said, rightly or wrongly.

I would have thought less of him tbh. And this thread as taught me to appreciate the fact that I didn't even need to have a discussion with him about it and that he also believed that asking me to be the one to get sterilised would have been selfish. He was 29 at the time.

Except it doesn't work like that- because that wouldn't be fair.

Why on earth wouldn't it work like that...?

And this thread as taught me to appreciate the fact that I didn't even need to have a discussion with him about it and that he also believed that asking me to be the one to get sterilised would have been selfish.

Me too.

And this thread as taught me to appreciate the fact that I didn't even need to have a discussion with him about it and that he also believed that sterilisation is not worth the risk. For either of us.

The argument that no-onr has been sterilised before is an easy way to bypass the logical risk arguments. It allows a simple disregard to risks women take in sex, contraception and pregnancy. Which is not 'fair'.

Other arguments used to bypass tbe risk debate are that i and all women force partners into vascetomies, that i am denying DH more children, and that its all about me.

All designed to bypass the risk debate.

If two people decide definately no children then essentially a vascetomy is less risky than sterilisation, or pregnancy.

It totally was worth the risk for us - and many, many other couples - as I say, drove home, sex within 48 hours, no pain, and no more contraception needed for either of us ever again.

why are you continuing to make this thread about your personal experience with vasectomy complications fuzz?

It's not the place for it anymore than it is the place for women to offload about their experiences with contraception, pregnancy and childbirth.

Personally I didn't get a choice about being pregnant but I think banging on about being raped and how awful getting pregnant was is just inappropriate.

This thread is not a thread about competitive misery.

Offred.

As I said upthread somewhere, the risks of all procedures and drugs need to be fully explained. Including pregnancy TBH.

There was a great thread a while back on the many side effects of pregnancy and birth. It was long and varied and certainly included pain during sex and loss of libido

four of course it could work like that, if thats what you decided was best for you as a couple.

Im starting to think you do have some other agenda. I have said that me and my DH are looking at sterilisation/vascetomy. Not that it suits everyone, or that you should have it.

I think four has an NFP agenda!

TheFuzz, I don't think it's very nice to imply as a joke that your wife would put you on the scrap heap as the result of a joint health decision.