Can love work between the classes?

[matchgirl]

I am 31 and a post grad student in London at present, originally from Scotland and from a pretty poor back ground, glasgow council scheme, free school meals, Dad was out of work at times that sort of thing. Not complaining at all love my folks and they did everything to make my life better but just giving you an idea of my situation.

Anyway I have met a guy in London last autumn, through some friends I have at Uni he is 37, single and works as a journalist no problem but he is posh, not just a bit but like Eton posh, really rich, he is much posher than he is rich.

When we met it was a total thunderbolt for both of us, lust at first sight I don't think he let go of my hand for about 10 minutes when introduced. It was crazy, never have experienced anything like that before.

We started seeing each other very quietly at first, I think we both felt it couldn't last but it did and it actually went pretty quickly from just a sex thing to something more, yes there was culture clash but also real friendship, desire and we fell in love.

It has been great, he is a really lovely man and when it is just us two its is great no real barrier but we both realise that things are getting serious between us and he wants us to think about a real future together. I am thrilled but it wouldn't just be him I would be marrying but his whole family, his social circle and his job and it would be in London, forever not Glasgow with my family. I don't mind but I worry that I would have to change my identity to fit in with him and his life. His older brother makes it plain he can't stand me and makes little digs at me when he thinks he won't be overheard. His Mother on the other hand seems to adore me and finds me charming so go figure.

I am not used to fancy places and got a very gentle telling off for piling up plates for the waitress in a fancy restaurant and my accent embarresses me at times, Kirsty Young I ain't.

These are all minor I suppose but I am back home visiting my parents they have met him and think he is lovely but they both are worried I will feel isolated if I marry him.

I don't really have doubts about him or our feelings but I wonder can it really work with such a gulf between our background? Will he be looking at all the elegant Imogens and Felicitys in a few years wondering why he married a peasent like me?

Presumably if the OP's partner only wanted to mix with people from a similar background he wouldn't be with the OP.

Okay, lots of lovely support for the OP. Now back to the real point of the thread...plates!

Off on a tangent - why is it wrong to stack the plates for the waiting staff? I always do this and when I was a waitress I found it helpful too.

Goes off on hypocritical tangent - you what? I don't think I have ever seen anyone do this. You actually stack them not just hand them over?

I don't make an issue of stacking the plates at the end of meals when eating out because I never go out but sometimes if we have all finished and the waiter/waitress has not arrived then I will stack them up to clear some space. I didn't realise it was such an error/bad etiquette but then I only eat out at chain restaurants or with the kids so I doubt I have caused any real social faux pas!!

But why is it wrong? Is it because of 'elf n safety? Is it because you are meant to be oblivious to the fact that plates arrive and disappear because waiting staff are 'invisible'? Is there some issue with the bottom of posh plates so they mustn't get gravy on them?

I'm from your bf's background - public school, aristocrat rels etc, and my best female friend is from the east end of Glasgow. In my book people are either interesting and fun or they're not. I don't give a fuck where they come from.

However, I couldn't cope with being married to a Tory. It really depends how politically minded you are. But potentially that's a much bigger problem. My sister's a Tory, so we just don't talk about politics, but that's easy as she doesn't read the newspaper and we don't live together. Having to make joint decisions with a Tory husband would be very difficult. And I might kill him.

There will always be ghastly people like his brother, sniggering like a butler in the pantry, but there are arseholes everywhere.

It can work but you have to be both very self-assured types who respect and celebrate difference rather than see it as a point of conflict

Entirely agree. I think it depends a lot on confidence.

It didn't work for me. I dated a working class guy. He would always comment he didn't feel he fitted in, would make "little rich girl" jibes and talk about how easy I had it, would take the piss out of my interests, wouldn't join in with my family. Everything I did was somehow related to being "posh". (I don't like camping? It's because I'm posh and used to luxury hotels. Want to go out to a restaurant? I must be used to it and expect it because I'm posh, don't I understand he's not interested in that? I'd ask him to get me something from Tesco and he'd come out with "sure you don't mean waitrose your highness?" Or some other remark) Now I don't mind a bit of a joke at some stereotypically "posh" things but this was constant. My family tried to include him and were lovely to him. He said he felt awkward at Christmases when they bought him gifts and on outings and things and always tried to not get involved. We also had very different interests (of course mine were all because I was posh...) and so that didn't work. He was a lovely guy but clearly felt insecure about the difference and we were very different people so it didn't work.

He was a lovely guy

Doesn't sound it!

Merry apart from the constant posh jibes he was actually very nice. We initially got on really well, but it got worse over the course of the relationship. I'm not sure why exactly, perhaps as it got more serious he noticed the differences and they started to bother him?

I must say I find it easier now, DP is from a similar background to myself and we have more in common and some similar memories/experiences. But I think like someone else said, if the person is confident it doesn't make a difference - it's when one party feels inferior (in my experience) that problems occur

Feel a bit about this post as I'm from Glasgow and my DD's called Imogen!

Seriously though, OP, as long as you're happy & as Pounding says, you celebrate the difference then everything else will be ok.

And my DH stacks plates after a meal out as well

I think it all depends on the type of personality you are. I am posh, my husband not (from working class background but now MC given his job/where he lives etc.). But I am the less confident of the two of us (albeit me seeming to be the extrovert, he is actually the one with indestructible self-belief) and I have found it much harder to fit in with his family than vice versa. His DF in particular has a bit of an issue that he married 'someone like me' outside of his class iykwim. And I am very 'aware' of the differences.

My family adore him as he just has that sort of personality that doesn't really notice or care about any of the differences, seeing them as superficial and unimportant (and he is right!). To them, he has become a lovely SonIL/BrotherIL.

Ultimately our values are very similar and that's what matters most. Whoever said way up thread that you need to talk through the big things like how you would bring up children, schools, religion, views on money, priorities for life etc. is dead right. If you can agree on that then you're off to the same start as any other couple.

And one last thing, I would also say that I have become quite a bit less posh since being with him (unconsciously, but possibly because I really like/prefer some of his family's WC values/way of doing things) and he has probably become a bit more posh in his tastes in various things etc.

In the end, it really shouldn't matter if you're a good personality match and you do actually like the majority of each other's friends and family (some of them are always going to be twunts, that's just life!).

If you want a laugh on the subject of class, I recommend reading "Watching the English" by Kate Fox.

It can definitely work. I come from working/middle class background, DH is well posh. He'll inherit a title one day, which I find kind of surreal.

Don't start changing yourself, not even in small ways. If you want to stack up plates for the waitress, crack on and do it. Place your napkin on the table if you wish. None of these actions will cause offence. On the other hand, fil gets banned from various restaurants for his drunken, rude and pompous attitude towards the staff. He thinks this is acceptable, because he is a very rude and entitled man.

The entire family do have a tendency to "sweep everything under the carpet", and the family is run almost as a business, there's a definite shying away from discussing anything "uncomfortable". DH was extremely reluctant to show/talk about feelings for a long time. This has a lot to do with being sent away to boarding school. Constant stream of nannies, being ripped from your family at such a young age affects one's ability to form attachments. IME, anyone who's been to boarding school benefits from counselling. A good book for both of you to read is "The making of them" by psychotherapist Nick Duffell. And I agree that it's very important that you have a frank discussion about whether he really means it about not wanting to send future DCs away to school.

Is he reliant on a Trust Fund? This can cause problems, because it can give the Trustees (usually elder family members) control over both your lives. DH's finances were very much tied up with his "family money" and we had a difficult time buying our house, even though I contributed half. The family solicitor will always be working for the family, not for you, so I would advise using an impartial solicitor for conveyancing/wills etc.

It can be quite overwhelming, and I'm going to repeat the advice about not changing who you are. The minute you start tinkering, then you begin to lose yourself. I speak from experience, and pulled myself into check with some intensive psychotherapy. Could be useful for you to talk over these conflicting emotions with a professional.

And lastly (sorry, bit of an essay, but your post resonated) good luck for the future. His mum likes you, the brother's a twat. Some people just are.

OP, channel a little less My Fair Lady and rather more modern opinion. We live in a meritocracy now and any class barriers are in your imagination.

(Lights blue touch paper and retires.)

on the other hand it sounds like you have a real connection/love match and if you let him go you might not find that again...
so I say go for it!

ahh Freda if only we did live in a meritocracy but I don't think we do

*Ooh, to continue from my post, one thing that did make me a bit was the "gentle telling off" about the plate stacking. How did he word it? Why did the (perceived) faux pas bother him enough to criticise you? I do hope he wasn't telling you how to behave "correctly".

I am titled, DH is from a very poor council estate. Backgrounds really are Royal Family vs Royle Family. But it totally works. I think this is for two reasons firstly because the proper 'upper class' and proper 'working class' are very similar in that they don't give a toss what people think and therefore are able to get on with anyone.
Secondly because we have made a life of our own. Our nuclear family is not of the same social status as either of our extended families. We are close and see both sets often but the way we live our life is our own. There is no reason for you to live in his world or him to live in yours.

Although everything chick pee says is v good advice. Don't change yourself especially, genuinely posh people you encounter (like his mum for example) will like that about you.

Think you hit the nail on the head there Monsters. You don't "marry into a family", do you. You get married and make your own brand new one.

Oh, I don't know ChickPee. Table manners are a great divider. My SIL used to lick her knife at the table even when at other peoples homes or restaurants. Like it or not that is something that is better not done and a gentle word in private was better than having people judge her on that.

As long as you remain confident ,don't allow yourself to be patronised, judged , belittled by the idiots in his family ..
Why the hell not ..you are his equal in everywhere ..you just have very different backgrounds. ..keeping your own loving family close is quite important though.

" Although everything chick pee says is v good advice. Don't change yourself especially, genuinely posh people you encounter (like his mum for example) will like that about you."

My advice to OP was not to change herself, I even said it twice, but not to make "genuinely posh people" like her more, but so she can live authentically, therefore retaining her sense of self.

My DH and I are from hugely different backgrounds and it's never bothered us. But we don't buy into a class system.

My Grandparents had a class divide, my Granny is from a well off, upper middle-class family and my Grandad a very poor working class. They met during the war and had a very happy marriage. I agree personality comes into it. My Granny was (is)a very self confident person, not that bothered by appearances and very practical about things, and my Grandad was unusually nice and kind. My mum and uncle remember he almost never lost his temper or raised his voice at them.

Yes, Duck, but OP didn't lick her knife, she kindly helped the waitress by stacking plates! DH sometimes eats non-finger-food, with his actual fingers!

Yes I know chick pee I was agreeing. I meant that particularly the advice about not changing herself is what I agreed with. And the posh people liking her because of it is a side effect of that not the reason to do it.