Can love work between the classes?

[matchgirl]

I am 31 and a post grad student in London at present, originally from Scotland and from a pretty poor back ground, glasgow council scheme, free school meals, Dad was out of work at times that sort of thing. Not complaining at all love my folks and they did everything to make my life better but just giving you an idea of my situation.

Anyway I have met a guy in London last autumn, through some friends I have at Uni he is 37, single and works as a journalist no problem but he is posh, not just a bit but like Eton posh, really rich, he is much posher than he is rich.

When we met it was a total thunderbolt for both of us, lust at first sight I don't think he let go of my hand for about 10 minutes when introduced. It was crazy, never have experienced anything like that before.

We started seeing each other very quietly at first, I think we both felt it couldn't last but it did and it actually went pretty quickly from just a sex thing to something more, yes there was culture clash but also real friendship, desire and we fell in love.

It has been great, he is a really lovely man and when it is just us two its is great no real barrier but we both realise that things are getting serious between us and he wants us to think about a real future together. I am thrilled but it wouldn't just be him I would be marrying but his whole family, his social circle and his job and it would be in London, forever not Glasgow with my family. I don't mind but I worry that I would have to change my identity to fit in with him and his life. His older brother makes it plain he can't stand me and makes little digs at me when he thinks he won't be overheard. His Mother on the other hand seems to adore me and finds me charming so go figure.

I am not used to fancy places and got a very gentle telling off for piling up plates for the waitress in a fancy restaurant and my accent embarresses me at times, Kirsty Young I ain't.

These are all minor I suppose but I am back home visiting my parents they have met him and think he is lovely but they both are worried I will feel isolated if I marry him.

I don't really have doubts about him or our feelings but I wonder can it really work with such a gulf between our background? Will he be looking at all the elegant Imogens and Felicitys in a few years wondering why he married a peasent like me?

I know this is going to sound more harsh than I actually mean it, but the person who is showing the most rigid stereotyped attitudes to class is the op, and though her snobbery is inverted, it's the strongest snobbery that comes across in my reading of what she says.

So, OP, the choice is yours - return to the street where you grew up so you feel you are with people like you. Or if that makes you recoil, continue with all the opportunities that you're finding with your new friends in London (and it would be good to have more than just his circle).

Only you can decide which is better for you. But then try to live your choice without letting yourself be eaten up by insecurities. Because you can always try something different if it doesn't work out.

I am from London and DH is from Newcastle, while we both come from workin class families they have very different backgrounds and culture. He's a Tory I'm a Labour voter, his brother and his wife are 'difficult' and we rarely see them. We get on with each others parents though. We have been together 20 years. I can hand on heart say we have had a handful of heated discussions on politics over the years but have learnt to just accept that we have our own views on these things. Our parents have had different views on how we should bring up our children but we know out own minds and have brought them up in line with our views. You need to make sure you are strong and clear on this before you get married.

You just need to read on here of all the problems people can have with family and friends, they don't need to be of any different class to fall out with you!

I think you should go for it if he makes you happy, life is too short to waste it on worrying about what ifs.

Another Glaswegian here.

Do not let the brother put you off. People of all backgrounds have dicks for relatives. I think though that he should confront his brother and tell him to shut it! Firm up some things before marriage e.g. No boarding school, what compromises you would both consider, frequent visits home.

Agree it would be good for you to start meeting some friends so you feel more secure I your own life and identity. I know you said he is not rich, but is he rich enough to afford a wee holiday home in Glasgow?

This is part of growing up though, isn't it; coping with a changing self identity.

It's difficult to let go of what you thought defined you in terms of culture and lifestyle, it's always a risk.

Op
My advice is to for it but protect yourself - earn your own money, contribute equally to a mortgage, build your own life. If he's a good, kind man he will support you in this.

Scottish woman here. I probably won't help with my comments because they are based on gut instinct. Your dp is attracted to you because of your differences. He doesn't want an 'Imogen'- a bland clone. For god's sake stop putting yourself down. The Glaswegian women I know don't put up with shit and you shouldn't either. Why let a good man go because of your inferiority complex? Because that's what it is. You are actually also doing your boyfriend a disservice because you are judging him on what is actually window dressing. I bet you have a million jokes between you about your differences. Any way you've got his mother on your side- what more do you want?

.and what makes you think it would work if they were both from the same class? BF could be from same background as OP and still have an awful brother, and ILs who correct how she does something, if not the dishes, its her curtains, raising the children etc MN is full of it.

OP please ignore all the nay sayers, what you need to focus on is you and yours, it seems you are both deeply in love and also friends comfortable with one another. EVERY couple has something they disagree on, it might not be boarding school, it could be grammar school, faith school, home school you name it! marrying into the same class does not guarantee you happiness.

If you love each other and are willing to make compromises on both sides you can make it work. Honestly you've got far more to start with than many couples. I wouldn't let this one get away.

Of course it can work - you will both need to adapt (I'm sure there are things about your friends and family that put him out of his comfort zone) and learn how to fit in with each other.
Remember, you aren't marrying his brother. Although it might be worth talking to your DP about your concerns about being accepted and try and get a feel for whether he will support you whole-heartedly or not. If that conversation is too hard, then that might be a sign that the relationship hasn't got legs.

Op - when I read your initial post I was struck by how the beautiful way you describe falling in love with your man... It sounds like what you have is real, don't lose sight of that. Nor do I see any indications that your bf wants you to change or adapt, apart from a twuntish brother (I'm afraid that cuts across classes btw!).

May I suggest - in the gentlest possible way - that you try to assess the size and significance of the chip on your shoulder regarding class? It sounds like your dp loves you for who you are - and where you come from makes you who you are. If he is willing to make a go of things why are you not giving him - and yourself - this chance?

Differences in marriages are always there - I married someone from a different country, with a radical different upbringing and very different expectations of family life. Is it easy? No way. But I love him and he loves me and we respect each other and deep down we share the same values on the things that really matter. The family and life we have built is different than either of our background families but we are still close to them and encourage our children to spend time with each of our respective families to get the full range of experiences :)

I believe you should ask yourself 3 things:

1. do you love him and respect him
2. do you share the same values
3. are your differences complementary ie do you being out the best in each other?

There is no certainty on how a relationship will turn out. I've seen plenty of same-same couples (same city, same schools, same social background etx) flounder through boredom and lack of growth. I've seen - and I've lived- the way differences can make you grow and evolve as a couple.

Good luck!

Other way round here - I am Lady Chatterly and I found Mellors four years ago. He scrubs up very nicely for special occasions and I wouldn't change him for a toff.

The answer is to talk through your anxieties with your man and let him convince you, not us!

Getting married isn't a guarantee you'll make it to the finish line. All sorts of obstacles can prevent that.

So I would say you have as much chance as the next person to have a long, loving and fulfilling relationship.

Especially as you both seem prepared to go into it with eyes open.

My only sticking point would be the boarding school. They are not cheap op and you say he/they are not rich so it might not rear it's ugly head.

I would fight tooth and claw not to have my children ripped away from me . That I would want in black and white.

No changing of minds. No pressure.

Good luck and hope it all works out!

I think maybe you're conflating wanting to keep your own identity in London - forge your own path, career, friends etc. - with the class identity - even if he had a similar background to you it would be important to retain your own identity, just it's more noticeable because of the differences in background. When you move somewhere and end up tied too much to another person, without having made your own life first, it carries so many risks if things don't work out - I think this is the main issue rather than the "class" one.

Continue to chat about how you fit into each other's lives, build your own life and identity also, enjoy the relationship for what it is at the moment - perhaps having more of your own life outside the relationship will help you see more clearly whether you will be compatible long term.

Both myself and my brother married ourside of our background if that makes sense. After initial worry, our familes have accepted each other, but there have been some issues on both sides over unexpected things that seem minor, like attitude to hand-me-downs whereas bigger things like religion hasn't caused as much confusion.

My brother's DW comes from a rough area and has an accent that is quite strong. Although they're happily married there were some issues at the start and it was hard on her. A couple of my brothers ex friends were horrible and staged some kind of 'intervention'. Thankfully he told them where to go.

So I'd say if your DP backs you up and stands up for you against any prejudice from friends and family, you'll be happy, but if he won't, I'd think carefully. I'd also really recommended a pre marriage course, I was skeptical but both DH and I found it very useful.

I ended up with a partner from a different class (that should actually read different background/values) and it did make life difficult.

I think you really need to chat about values, goals in life, how you would parent children etc before making a decision. I didn't do this so I had a shock when I realised we were completely different in our ambitions for children/life goals etc.

I think it will work if you are both open/flexible. I don't think it will be necessarily easy though - he might not feel comfortable with your family (my partner's family all kept going on about how posh I was, and it made me feel uncomfortable, I'm not landed gentry ffs but they kept on and on about it) and you may feel uncomfortable with his family's traditions, in that they may have behaviour that they expect while nobody has told you about it.

When children come into things then it can be quite polarising too I think.

But knotnowdear these are things you would discuss with any partner regardless of class. Values, goals etc will all differ depending on each person, very little to do with class. I'd be surprised if anyone got married without discussing ay of the aforementioned.

Op, it's hard to make a life relationship work anyway, but you have one huge thing in your favour, you have been properly and truly in love at the start. I think if you have that, you can always return to that later on when (because it does) the going gets tough. I don't mean love conquers all because it doesn't, but a core of real love, plus attraction, will get you some of the way.

For what it's worth, I married someone from a different culture/country, it's fine, lots of my friends have married people from different countries, or over class boundaries, or both.

I'm a not posh (northern, engineering family. Not poor but comp school and holidays in the UK etc) and I've married into a posh family so can hopefully help.

If you love him, and he loves you, that's all you need. I'd have an honest conversation with him. He's surely bound to have considered this.

I sometimes get directed to the way to do things by his family (who I very much like, and I think like me too!), such as napkin on chair not table if you leave, it's the loo not the toilet, and to be honest, it doesn't bother me. It's just the way they are. We laugh about it. When we're with my parents he just adjusts to how we do things, just as I adjust to how his parents do things. In our home we do things our way - a mix of both.

I actually enjoy all the new experiences I've had, the new things I've discovered, the people I've met. My horizons are much broader.

I don't get embarrassed by my different upbringing, it's just different but not better or worse.

Don't let his brother put you off. You sound lovely and I hope it works out for you.

You could still have problems if you married a working-class Glaswegian who wanted to stay in Glasgow and hadn't gone to university. Like his family might think you think you're above them now, as you want a career in London and become more middle class because of your job/income so you might feel just as unwelcome. (Not meaning to stereotype, it's just a possibility.)

She knows he will decide with her and they won't be able to force him to anything and she knows he is financially independent, so they don't feel beholden to them.

THIS, in spades. DH and I have never made decisions to appease his parents. When they offered an obscene amount of money for Harrow (specifically, like all the other men in the family) we turned them down.

I think I earned about a third of what DH did when we got together .He took me to Greece on holiday after a year and paid for everything . Any
money we have inherited( not millions!) is from his 'side' .He has never given a toss .It is ours.we have been together nearly 35 years .our wedding was lovely mix and everyone got on fine ,including DF and DH's public -school educated Asian friend (DF had never mixed socially with a non white person before) .
I didn't mean to suggest you needed to become more'polished' OP ,just that you probably will with time .Your education has (like mine) already taken you out of your class .And I agree with others that as long as you agree on fundamentals it will work .My DH used to be more left wing than me but has become more conservative (though not Tory) with age
The attitude of any DCs to your parents and rest of family will matter ..My DDs (middle class !) recognise the innate goodness and worth of my family, have never been ashamed of myDPs, DB and DSIL and have happily taken 'posh' ' boyfriends to meet them and stay in tiny council houses .
I have occasionally met people who have made assumptions about me based on where and how we live -4bed house 'good' area, we travel a lot- (my accent is not pronounced and fairly classless I guess) and passed crass remarks about the feckless working class who live in council houses,were state educated etc .Such a joy to watch their faces when I casually mention my background .

Yes, it can work. My ex farmer boyfriend was pretty toffy and his family had squillions in property development, but I was raised in breezeblock tied railway cottages and my Mum was council estate born and bred.

I think if you have confidence and open-mindedness, those qualities will see you safely through any potential areas of awkwardness.
If there's one thing that distinguishes an individual who can move freely 'between classes' in their social interactions, it's confidence. Everybody likes a genuine and warm individual.

Proper toffs are loveable nutters anyway. No game playing, direct and to the point. It's the snobby middle class wannabes that cause the most problems, and you can just ignore their prejudice by being indifferent.

Your relationship sounds like it has legs though.

It can work but you have to be both very self-assured types who respect and celebrate difference rather than see it as a point of conflict. You also need to be on the same wavelength when it comes to your deal breakers and your most deeply held beliefs. It helps if you have a 'life plan' as a couple where you know what's expected of you as a couple and how you are going to safeguard your individuality, complete with contingency plans for if it doesn't work out.

Good luck. Just take it slowly if you're not sure for now. While it's a truism that you don't just marry a person you marry their family/history/whatever, that doesn't mean that people are bound by those accompaniments. People should not be judged by their relatives, only their behaviour in their relationship with them. If your DP sticks up for his brother's behaviour, you have a problem. But if he refuses to be complicit in it, then you don't.