Does being a SAHM cause problems?

[airhostess]

Hi,
I'm lucky. I'm told " I'm lucky and I don't realise how lucky I am".
I look after our two children, home etc but I don't think I will ever have his respect until I earn my own money.
Anyone else in the same shoes?!

suzie could we get your dp on here so we can have a little chat with him? He is every bit as vulnerable as the OP.

Really Suzie? And how is she going to be able to afford a shit hot divorce lawyer?

I've just seen a friend of mine utterly shafted by her (lawyer) ex. She is living in a tiny terraced house with the kids, while he has managed to keep the big family home, the holiday home, pay her the bare minimum in maintenance, with no real effect on his lifestyle at all. His view is that she should be grateful he provided her with a house, as he had no obligation to do so.

Suzie- from ex's that don't offer that? She has no legal right to stay in that house. She has no legal right to his pension. She can claim cms but if he doesn't want to pay it is often not enforced.

Sure she has a moral right to be compensated for the sacrifices she has made but these are unenforceable against a hostile ex. which by the sounds of it her dp would be

I'm the WOHP and DP is the SAHD.

We're all lucky to have the life we do. I'm lucky that I get to work and have DP at home to do the day to day house stuff, looking after DS. DP is lucky that he gets to be a home parent, spend time with DS and be financially comfortable without having to work. DS is lucky because he gets to have a parent at home with him, going out and doing stuff as well as a few hours at pre-school.

It's not luck though, its hard work for both me and DP and we've gone through dark patches to get where we are now. It's a joint effort and we have equally contributed to our family life. Contribution isn't equal to income. Your DH is a bit of dick if he doesn't see that.

Ok I'm wrong

I certainly wouldn't want to be solely responsible for financially funding a partner and children. Perhaps in the short term but certainly not in the long term. Now if people are prepared to do this and it works for them then fine. But it should not be an expectation than one person goes out to work and earns the money and the other person facilitates this by looking after the house.

You think you're next of kin in his pension? WTAF! Check immediately! If you're not going to get married and you are going to SAH, you MUST be very sure that things like pensions and life insurance policies will cover you.

Suzie when you mention housing, are you talking about courts agreeing the non-owning SAHP has an interest in the property via a trust? I understood those were very difficult to establish. Obviously we all know CM for even an unmarried partner can be huge if the NRP is rich.

This gets worse and worse.

As others have said you are entitled to nothing if he decides he doesn't like this arrangement any more - and he's sounding fed up.

Regarding his "fuck all" comment, he sounds like a complete child. What did he think would happen supporting 4 people on one income - you have to have a seriously high income (well into six figures) to do anything flash in those circumstances, more if you're in the SE. If he earns a fair amount presumably he's not stupid? And if you have a secure Home, enough to eat and some savings you are richer than the vast majority of the world. So what if he doesn't have a flash car - how immature.

He sounds selfish, petulant and immature.

Yes. It has made me and my partner respect each other less.

It's hard work for all of us! Nobody's life is simple. And what we all need is an acknowledgment of that from a partner. Personally I would hate anyone "telling" me I was lucky!!

OP is lucky in one way, but vulnerable in another, her DH is lucky he can work as much as he wants, but he feels pressurised. I am a single mum, I work ft, and often feel aggrieved and resentful ( I know I shouldn't!) with people who can get into work early and leave late, so they can really get on on their careers - some people probably feel resentful ul that I leave on the dot and don't arrive till 5 past 9!! But I'd love to have someone at home who could help me share the burden.

My point is really, that it is about mutual respect and recognition that a partnership should be just that, with both doing what they can for the good of the family. If OPs DH is not happy with his lot, maybe it's time for a rethink of how it all works. (Alternatively he may just be very selfish... Only OP knows this)

Agree with all the others Bout checking your legal position by the way OP.

It's all very well saying a good lawyer can get a settlement for non married partners. But this costs money and changes to legal aid have meant that costs for this litigation are not always available. I agree the OP is in a very vulnerable position financially.

Exactly Vivienne.

I apologise if i came across as smug, I have absolutely nothing to be smug about. We may be financially secure but our lives our filled with other challenges that I would happily swap financial security for.

I was trying to make the point that the problem isn't being a SAHM - to answer the OPs question. It is the fact that her partner does not value her. I suspect that would be the same regardless of her working status.

Marriage is not a guarantee either, I have had a friend who lost everything despite being married because the richer you are the easier it is to hide that wealth.

You didn't sound smug. Just sensible. I was mystified by that 'smug' remark!

Hi OP,

Good question. It depends what sort of man you've got. And unfortunately you only get the answer to this once you've had a child/children.

With mine, we agreed I'd be an SAHM so, joint decision. BUT this coincided with a massive shift in his attitude to me. He seemed to have no respect for me once I didn't have a job and was caring full-time for dd. For him, with the division of roles (and, de facto, me not bringing in actual money),the balance of power had shifted - entirely in his direction! I mean WTF?! He may have supported me being an SAHM, but he seemed to think that this entailed complete subordination. I was utterly shocked. He picked holes in my parenting, undermined me, interrogated me as if I was an underperforming employee. Whenever I spoke up for myself he shouted me down or accused me of not caring enough for my dd (deeply, deeply upsetting accusation for a mother to hear from anyone, let alone 'loving partner).

My dream of being a 'happy team' - y'know equal partners trying to create happy, secure family life, with both of us contributing and working hard towards that goal, just crumbled. It became clear that he expected me to do as I was told. It wasn't a joke.

This was not what I had signed up for. I had had a baby, not a personality transplant. I was still just as clever, opinionated, feminist etc. as I was before, but I was somehow expected to be obedient. It took me a long time to recognise that because I had taken on the 'mother' role, I was hugely devalued in his eyes. It did not end well.

There was a massive disconnect, as of course I did not see the 'mother' role as any less valuable than the 'breadwinner' role. But his prejudice was entirely fixed in his head and there was nothing I could do to change the mindset. He was vile to me. Reader, I divorced him.

Costs money if you're married and the economically richer partner doesn't want to pay too. And we can get orders for them to pay fees. Equal access to representation n all that.

I didn't think Philoslothy sounded smug, just wasn't sure it had anything much to do with the subject at hand. Of course there are unmarried SAHMs who are in excellent financial positions, it's just that's not a great deal of help to the OP if she's not one of them. But I agree that a big problem is her partner not valuing her contribution. It's possible that could also happen if she were married and/or working.

On a practical level, I'd probably want to check that working actually would make the family better off anyway. They have a baby under 1, for whom childcare would be expensive. I presume the 4 year old is either at school or entitled to some free hours, but either way would need wraparound and holiday care at a minimum. Either OP would need to find work that covers these costs and/or fits around as much childcare as possible, or DH would need to amend his hours to do some or all of it, or a mixture. Given that he's away overnight the majority of the time and part time, ad hoc night nannies are both elusive and expensive, that would probably limit OPs options further, unless he can find a way to stop doing/reduce them. However they do it, I certainly wouldn't be assuming the family would be automatically better off with her working. Not with DC of that age.

I am a qualified teacher but still would only break even after paying for childcare for two preschoolers.

Sorry Philoslothy.

Poppy - two of my friends have had ex husbands who had exactly that mindset - one said during counselling that his DW "had ceased to have any value, and he lost all respect for her once she had given up work." He saw her as "no more than a woman you would pay to come in and clean."

I think you need to look beyond the immediate financial issues around giving up work/child care. For me, it was important to stay on the career ladder, despite only just breaking even during the pre-school years, and it paid off. I am now earning double what I would have been, had I taken time out to stay at home until the DC went to school. So for a few years of sacrifice, we are now reaping the benefits.

Oh I agree mrsschadenfraude, there can often be value in working besides making money from it. In OPs situation I imagine I would want to work even if it actually cost the family money. However, DH needs to be prepared for the possibility that OP getting a job is not necessarily going to improve the family finances and may actually make them worse in the short term. The thing that is making them have 'fuck all' and not be able to afford sports cars is quite possibly the presence of their two under 5s rather than the OPs working arrangements.

Thanks MrsSchadenfreude - am rubbing wrists with your two friends. It was as if I had excavated a completely different person. A total fucking misogynist! And yes, I also attempted counselling with my now-XH... it was a revelation in terms of how much contempt he had for me. V similar sentiments.

If a man resents you for staying at home, enabling him to have children and a career, he will resent you when you work too. I've seen it so many times.

He wont expect any change in chores and childcare duties for him, he will expect you to do all the housework and childcare as well as work without a squeak. If not he will resent you for it as well as for the additional stress and time pressure that two working parents bring.

Poppy your ex is a very good example of far too many men who simply don't value or understand the wife and mother role.

I think it's actually just a good example of men who are dicks.

If my DH had ever suggested I was lucky, had ever expected me to thank him, I would have ended it.

I gave up a career and independence to look after our children. If he hadn't respected that he could have absolutely fucked off.