Another sexless marriage

[FlimFlamatron]

Hi all, looking for the collective wisdom of anonymous internet folk.

I'm a married guy in my mid-30s; my wife and I have been together for about 10 years. We've got two kids.

The issue of the day is a complete and utter lack of sex, verging now on abstinence. I couldn't accurately describe the frequency, but I think maybe 2 or 3 times in the last year? This has gone on, probably for about the last 2 or 3 years, only marginally better than that for the prior 4 or 5. Only really in the first few years of being together were were really having sex regularly. The sex we do have is singularly awful - all attempts at foreplay are rebuffed, and I'm urged to finish the deed as quickly as possible (which, given the usual frequency, is not that difficult!). She's not interested in any aspect of sex at all, giving or receiving.

Things really fell off a cliff though, once I made the decision (about a year ago) to stop even attempting to initiate. In all honesty I couldn't take the continued rejection, it was utterly humiliating. I knew it would be the death knell of the twice-a-year hurrah, but I had to do it for my own (vastly diminished) sense of pride.

Sounds terrible, but we otherwise have, I think, a good relationship. We're both young, reasonably attractive, have good jobs, a couple of great kids, live in a nice house and we're better off than most. The odd stress or strain, but nothing millions of ordinary people don't face every day. On paper, we're lucky. In case it needs spelling out, yes I more than pull my weight around the house. This isn't an issue.

I do really love my wife. She's funny, intelligent, good-looking, interesting. I love spending time with her. I love going out together, wherever. I just don't know why she's completely given up on this one aspect of the relationship.

We've talked endlessly and openly about this. She acknowledges the hurt and feelings of rejection this must cause. We've talked about possible causes - there's a bit of everything in there. Body image issues, post-pregnancy pain, tiredness, birth control etc. But at the end of the day, she says she simply cannot explain why she does not want to have sex. End of. Nothing to be done. Sad, but that's life.

It is causing huge issues in the marriage. My resentment is building; knowing that this isn't helpful on my part doesn't really stop me feeling it - like her rejection of sex, this is an emotional reaction that I'm not entirely in control of. I've tried taking it off the agenda for long periords to try to take the stress out of the issue for, but in my experience this simply means it gets pushed to the bottom of the priority list below pretty much everything else.

I'm at the point now where I feel I have to make a decision about whether to end the marriage. I can't really bear the thought of leaving my kids, and feel I'm going to end up the bad guy here with friends + family when I wasn't the one who unilaterally declared celibacy.

Is this ever solvable? The more I read about other people's experiences, the more depressed I get that this will ever be addressed, and the more I think I need to act now.

Any advice / thoughts gratefully received.

Very true. This is what I need to do next, I think; try to tease out what the real story is in that regard, and react accordingly.

Saw some hints of things in the last couple of days that lead me to think she's not as unhappy with a potential split as she initially made out. So you could very well be right about all this.

Sigh. If that's the case, it's unnecessary and painful emotional chicanery. Could really have been handled differently.

I think you need to have it out and be brutally honest with each other. Is she more honest if she's had a drink? I think, if it was me, I'd have to know the truth, even if it hurt. Then if you have to be the bad guy, so be it, but at least you'd know where you stand.

All divorces these days are no fault, btw. So you don't have to have 'a reason' to split. So that's something. And you don't have to be the bad guy either IMO. You've grown apart, by the sound of things. Its really sad, but its pretty common.

I doubt very much that there is a reason, a solid one thing explaing why the ops wife doesn't want sex

I would put money on the fact she has no idea what s big deal this is to her husband or that it could break her marriage.

FLIM there are many things you "could" do but it appears the marriage is over.
As the excellent post from iwas said. Both sides thought they had made their position clear but they had not...... And the world came crashing down.
The number of times I have heard the phrase "but I did tell him/her" we think we have said something clearly when in fact either we have not been blunt enough or our partner does not want to hear.
In your last post you have suggested that a split is not out of the question. Who is to know maybe this is what your partner wanted all along but just could not say it (or did and she did not make it clear or you did not, at that time, want to hear it)
Good luck.

one of the problems with men being in sexless relationships is that it's almost a standing joke/accepted fact that women go off sex after having children/because they're doing the housework/because looking after the kids is hard. In fact this is one of the first balanced threads I've seen on here where a man has posted that he is in a sexless relationship and the response hasn't been that he clearly isn't pulling his weight in the marriage... whereas if a woman posts that she is in a sexless relationship the fault still lies with the man. The assumption from that being that sex is always on a woman's terms, and if the man doesn't like that he is selfish, whether he is getting enough or wanting too much...

We need to start taking more notice of the fact that we all have physical needs and that those physical needs sometimes also key into our emotional needs. Because if as a woman my partner rejected me regularly that would affect my emotional wellbeing as well as would feel rejected and lacking in self worth. This goes as much for men as it does for women, and neither gender should be dismissed if this is becoming an issue in their relationship.

It of course goes without saying that anyone has the right to say no to sex. but equally, if that means that they never want sex then they don't have the right to expect that their partner will stay with them. Relationships are a two way process, if one party has checked out of the relationship physically then they have a responsibility to discuss that with the other partner and either try to reach a compromise be that through therapy or medical intervention, or they need to let them go to find happyness elsewhere. And no, it's not just about sex. sex is an expression of love in a relationship. Without sex most people would feel unloved, especially if any other intimacy is lacking as well.

Op you have my sympathy. But what you need to do is be brutally honest with her. I don't believe that most people are unaware of the issues, but while the injured party doesn't give an ultimatum they are complacent. We all do it sometimes, and are then shocked when the one who is lacking affection has an affair (not to be recommended) or walks out.

I actually like the saying "if you love something, let it go," in some instances, and this is one of those. She needs to know in words just what the implications are of her actions, she needs to realise what she stands to lose, if it doesn't matter to her and she still won't address the issues, then you deserve to go and find happiness with someone who will love you and appreciate you and want to be with you. If she loves you, genuinely loves you and doesn't want to lose you, then she will make the effort to address the issues in your relationship in order to make it work.

Good luck.

Just to put another view on it though, in her eyes you put a lot more importance on sex than other things she might value in a relationship. For example, from her point of view, if you are willing to walk away from a relationship with her, the family set up, the 'for better or worse' promises, etc., are you really worth fighting for?

Just an alternative view so that you can see how she might consider that you value sex above everything else which might not be attractive to her. She might say, 'Go on then, off you go and have all the sex you like with someone else. I hope you realise what you are throwing away in order to do so' because, of course, the grass is often greener and there is no guarantee that you will be any happier as a single man having more sex.

I would be more inclined to try to rekindle intimacy with her - emotional and intellectual intimacy - before trying to make this all about sex.

Of course, if you're really not happy then you probably should separate but it might not make you any happier.

@fairenuff

I take the point, but find the argument a bit reductionist. It's another way of stating "sex isn't that important to me, therefore it shouldn't be that important to you".

It can also be easily inverted; why risk throwing a marriage away just because you're uncomfortable seeking help with a particular issue?

Also, we are years and years into this. The early days were filled with sympathy and understanding and patience (perhaps she feels not enough?). To be frank, it changed little. In the broad space of possible compromises, where we ended up, despite everything, was at one extreme of the range - almost complete abstinence!

I don't know if I have too much capacity at this point to rekindle anything, especially if I am expected to make the running. I'll try to move forward with an open mind, but I'm not sure how useful I can be in any potential solution, now, sadly :(

It's another way of stating "sex isn't that important to me, therefore it shouldn't be that important to you".

But aren't you just saying "sex is important to me, therefore it should be important to you"?

I think this question can be equally applied to both of you:

Are you willing to end the relationship because of a lack of sex?

If you know what your answer is, just ask her for her answer and you will know where you stand.

I think that the truth is that a woman's libido is there purely for the purpose of procreation. Which is why children, whose bodies are not yet big or strong enough to bear children, don't have a libido, and why women who have gone through the menopause, have in general, a very much reduced libido. This last statement is contentious - there will always be exceptions to the rule and the media of today often tries to lead us to believe that our libido in our 50s and 60s should be as strong as it is in our 20s, and if it's not, there's something medically or psychologically wrong. There isn't, it's just nature.

A man, on the other hand, doesn't need to physically bear a child. He just has to impregnate the woman, so his libido is as strong as his blood pressure allows, right up until old age.

I think the media of today is doing marriages a disservice by leading people to believe anything different.

I am sorry for you OP, because I truly see how all this rejection must be making you feel, and because I think you too are trapped by society's norms to remain in a monogomous relationship till death do you part, which you have been led to believe would be full of the joy of sex for many, many years.

queenruth What a load of tired old stereotypes. Its not even a subtle attempt at misogyny. Its a completely in your face one.

You might as well have come out with the tired old trope that men need sex more than women. In fact im not sure you didnt.

In fact its misogynistic statements like this that prevent women in sexless relationships speaking up. Which i think is the true agenda behind that utter shite you have just spouted!

And there are plenty of men who decide they dont want sex anymore. But thats usually blamed on women too. "Has your physical appearance changed at all" is what a woman will be asked.

By your reasoning queen, OP's wife is beyond childhood, into her child bearing years and not yet menopausal so she should still be experiencing the full sex drive of a fully mature, reproductive adult. Your logic doesn't quite work there does it.

I do agree with this though: she should just be honest and admit that she's lost it. Then, she can either make a commitment to try and get it back of they can both move on.

Oh dear. This has been very painful reading for me.

What are you going to do op?

Well Katelyn Marital therapist Andrew G Marshall disagrees with you. He says of the people he has counselled who are in sexless marriages it was a pretty even split between the genders.

Katelyn I agree that there is nothing to indicate his wife has a problem with her libido. From what OP has said it does look like she just isn't interested in him sexually, for whatever reason.

You guys are killing me, here :)

Why? We're just trying to look at it from your wife's point of view. As you don't have any answers, we're just batting around a few ideas of what she might be thinking/feeling. You did ask for opinions, after all.

I'm 29 (30 soon) and my husband is 30. We started going out 14 years ago and at 16 we had regular sex.

We now have three children and over the years have gone through lulls in our sex life's. Iv had a few phases when I didn't desire him or want touched etc.I really worried that I didn't fancy him anymore and wed need to split up. The difference was the most wed ever go would be a couple of weeks because I knew it wasn't fair on him.

However things have changed in the past year and iv realised i think its because he had the snip and i didnt need to worry anymore about falling pregnant which i must of done subconsciously. Also iv been on the pill, had the coil, the patch, injection and they all completely kill my libido so wed use condoms which he wouldn't always want to use and I'd panic about falling pregnant.

She needs to go to the doctors and be checked and then if nothing try no contraception for a few months and see if that helps. If nothing helps then you are too young to live like this.

I don't understand why she doesn't just think right I'm.going to give it my all and put 100% into it. The more sex you have the more you want it.

Does she worry about her body or her vagina, does she definitely have orgasms?

Just a couple of things, OP.

Is your wife a Mumsnetter? I'm always a bit uncomfortable when I read a thread like this at the thought that a regular here might read it and recognise she's the person being discussed.

If she was on here, what advice do you think she would give?

The other thing is, do you think she could be having an affair? Now I know as far as you're concerned she doesn't want sex, but often it's a sign that someone is with someone else and sees herself/himself as being faithful to the other person. I hope it's not true in this case, but I have experience of that being the case.

I second whoever said that it's really good to read a thread like this where people are writing such considered posts.

@fairenuff

I know, and I'm grateful, my comment was entirely tongue-in-cheek.

OP, thank you for starting this thread, though I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. I needed to read it this evening.

I'm afraid to say that I'm a lot like your wife. I hate it. I really, really wish I had a strong sex drive. Every so often I do feel really horny and then my DH and I have great sex. But that's rare. And I have pushed this issue down over and over because in my mind 'it's only sex, everything else is fantastic'. I think the reason I have next to no sex drive is because I'm infertile, but that's just conjecture.

Reading through these pages has been like a light being switched on. The thought of losing my husband now... or years down the line... is an awful one. I can't keep pretending this is going to go away.

So, anyway, another one here saying you need to start talking about ending the relationship. My husband and I have talked about the fact that it might end because of this in a very theoretical way and both agreed that neither of us want that, at all. But we are not as many years into it as you and your wife are. So we talk and nothing changes. But now that I've read all the points made here about how things worsen over time, I know that I need to address it now. I can imagine my husband writing everything you've written in a few years' time and I don't want to get to that point.

Sorry, this is a bit of a selfish response. I hope that your wife can come to a similar decision as I've come to when she realises what's on the line.