Another sexless marriage

[FlimFlamatron]

Hi all, looking for the collective wisdom of anonymous internet folk.

I'm a married guy in my mid-30s; my wife and I have been together for about 10 years. We've got two kids.

The issue of the day is a complete and utter lack of sex, verging now on abstinence. I couldn't accurately describe the frequency, but I think maybe 2 or 3 times in the last year? This has gone on, probably for about the last 2 or 3 years, only marginally better than that for the prior 4 or 5. Only really in the first few years of being together were were really having sex regularly. The sex we do have is singularly awful - all attempts at foreplay are rebuffed, and I'm urged to finish the deed as quickly as possible (which, given the usual frequency, is not that difficult!). She's not interested in any aspect of sex at all, giving or receiving.

Things really fell off a cliff though, once I made the decision (about a year ago) to stop even attempting to initiate. In all honesty I couldn't take the continued rejection, it was utterly humiliating. I knew it would be the death knell of the twice-a-year hurrah, but I had to do it for my own (vastly diminished) sense of pride.

Sounds terrible, but we otherwise have, I think, a good relationship. We're both young, reasonably attractive, have good jobs, a couple of great kids, live in a nice house and we're better off than most. The odd stress or strain, but nothing millions of ordinary people don't face every day. On paper, we're lucky. In case it needs spelling out, yes I more than pull my weight around the house. This isn't an issue.

I do really love my wife. She's funny, intelligent, good-looking, interesting. I love spending time with her. I love going out together, wherever. I just don't know why she's completely given up on this one aspect of the relationship.

We've talked endlessly and openly about this. She acknowledges the hurt and feelings of rejection this must cause. We've talked about possible causes - there's a bit of everything in there. Body image issues, post-pregnancy pain, tiredness, birth control etc. But at the end of the day, she says she simply cannot explain why she does not want to have sex. End of. Nothing to be done. Sad, but that's life.

It is causing huge issues in the marriage. My resentment is building; knowing that this isn't helpful on my part doesn't really stop me feeling it - like her rejection of sex, this is an emotional reaction that I'm not entirely in control of. I've tried taking it off the agenda for long periords to try to take the stress out of the issue for, but in my experience this simply means it gets pushed to the bottom of the priority list below pretty much everything else.

I'm at the point now where I feel I have to make a decision about whether to end the marriage. I can't really bear the thought of leaving my kids, and feel I'm going to end up the bad guy here with friends + family when I wasn't the one who unilaterally declared celibacy.

Is this ever solvable? The more I read about other people's experiences, the more depressed I get that this will ever be addressed, and the more I think I need to act now.

Any advice / thoughts gratefully received.

I think she needs counselling on her own to start with (once medical issues are ruled out). She needs to be able to openly explore her sexuality in confidence. There may be things she is not yet ready to share with you (if ever). GP would be the first stop though. Surely she would agree to that wound't she? If not, why not?

Op. I am like your wife. I hate sex with my dh. We have been married 28 years. I hate sex with him because I dont love him any more. Our marriage is pretty much sexless now, but only because he now has erectile distinction and leaves me in peace. I am sorry for you, and sorry for him. It kills the relationship.
I have no advice to offer other than if you are both miserable, you should call it a day? Dont live a miserable half life, like we do.

Disfunction!!!!!!

Do you think you could leave your DC's? This is something you need to think about very carefully.

I went as far as having a couple of affairs because my husband is useless in bed (amongst other things) and I didn't want to split up my family. I tried really hard to get my husband to do what I wanted in bed but he didn't want to know so I went elsewhere.

I wouldn't recommend having an affair to anybody but it seems to have worked for me. Both my children have since left school and we plan to get divorced as soon as the youngest starts uni.

I'm a bit further down the line than you op having tried counselling etc but we are now in the process of separating.
You speak about her kindly & with pride & affection. Does she do the same about you?
I f nothing gets resolved the resentment with eat away at those positives you describe until it becomes unbearable.

Obviously don't want to leave the kids. Also, the social stigma of being the initiator of a divorce is something I want to avoid, particularly when I feel I'm not really at fault. All people will know is that I've left her (and the kids). But it might have to come to that.

I'll be honest, I'm not hopeful. I think her issues with sex, at least with me, are deep-seated at this point.

OP would she agree to see the GP and if not, why not?

I think you have to ask her if she is willing to do anything about this problem. If she isn't, then you have to decide if you are going to stay. If she is, then she actually has to take some action to improve the situation.

I agree that even if the rest of your relationship is good at the moment, it won't last if there is no sexual intimacy.

I am really sorry for you in this situation having experienced marriage spilt when kids were 3 and 5 for another reason.

She should be prepared to go to the GP and for counselling not only for your marriage but also for your childrens sake. Sex is an essential glue to holding everything together.

There are so many possible reasons from not being in love to being gay to medical reasons to suppressed or not suppressed previous life experiences.

If she wont take any action then you have to think what you are prepared to do. In my marriage split I did consider whether we could share the house and live separate lives. I did explore a number of options to try to keep us together for the kids but not together IYKWIM. But I did find out that mostly these dont get done as they dont work in real life. Very tough. I hope she will agree to take some action. But do stay on here and get support if it helps

Your wife's situation sounds similar to mine. I hate being like this, I know I'm not a proper wife to him. I've taken a few embarrassing problems to the GP but it's not really helped. I now dread the very thought of intimacy. I refuse to talk about it any more as the conversations were so upsetting and didn't help. At first I tried forcing myself to go through with having sex but that made me dread it even more.
Hope you find a solution.

@Bagonhead

The sad thing is we're kind of trapped in this cycle of poor behaviour. I believe her when she says she can't help it.

But I also can't help but really resent her for it. Part of me thinks that her telling me she 'has no control over it' is a way of removing any agency over or responsibility for the problem - a way of washing her hands of it. It's just something that happened to her, she had no part to play in it, not her fault and not her responsibility.

All of us have aspects to our behaviour and our personalities that we'd occasionally like to change. It may well be something subconscious or not entirely within our conscious control. I just think that throwing our hands up and saying "I have no control over this" is so defeatist, it's just throwing the problem back at the partner and saying "like it or lump it".

Like you, she's begun to hate the discussions we have, which invariably become about the resentment that is building up on both sides rather than the issue itself. I've got my own part to play in that folly.

I don't say this to be hurtful, OP, but I think your wife does have a libido. Just not for you.

Relationships run their course. Yours appears to have moved into the 'companions and co-parents' stage.

If your wife is not sexually attracted to you, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You can only control what you do from this point. You can wait it out and see if her attraction to you returns. Or take a leap and try to find a more fulfilling relationship for yourself.

I really feel for you - I've been in your position. When dh and I first got together this was a huge issue in that he didn't want it, didn't initiate it and rejected my advances (that's the most soul destroying one). We sought help and a very good relate counsellor talked us through a recognised disorder of libido. We got a book about it, I'll find it and post the title later. One aspect of this disorder is that the rejected party eventually dampens down their own libido and becomes like the other. Not a healthy relationship.

We addressed things sufficiently to get married and have kids, but the damage has been done and my libido has never recovered really. Now we very rarely have sex and I know my husband would like it more often! It's definitely one of those things which you have to do to get the desire back. We do still have two dc under four though, and I just don't feel desirable, but I'm hoping that will change again.

If she really won't address it though there's not much else you can do :( though I do recommend getting relate counselling alone to help you think things through. Would you want custody of the children? I really feel for you :(

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As I said above I'm recently out of a relationship where my dp was like your wife but also wanted to add that one of the reasons I ended it was because I had felt like your wife in my previous marriage and I recognised some of the things from myself that exdp was saying.

It went on for years, at first I thought it could have been anti -depressants reducing my libido so when exdh began to complain I went to the GP and agreed to change tablets to see if that helped - It didn't. I also went to a Psychosexual counsellor - didn't help. I was in my mid 20's at that time and I didn't want to feel like that.
Anyway, to cut a long story short - I realised that the issues were with my exdh. I told him I couldn't help it, which was partly true, the truth was I didn't fancy him any more, I didn't respect him and there was resentment too. My libido was perfectly fine after we'd split and I later got with a different partner.

Like a few others have said if this was a woman posting about a man many would have said 'leave' and many more probably would have raised the question 'is there someone else?'. The way you describe your situation doesn't sound like there is.

Life is short and to stay in a relationship that you are not happy in - and you are unhappy as all aspects have to be right for that to be so. Maybe have a serious talk about a trial separation it may give her the jolt she needs to address these issues. When did the sex start going down hill - was it after the children? Could she maybe have a bit of post natal depression?

The old excuse of not having time has never washed with me - you have to make time for lots of things and in a marriage you have to make time for intimacy.

She needs to speak to a counsellor or she to the GP - or you might both need to speak to a counsellor.

I'm in your position and my marriage is on its last legs. I don't know if counselling would've helped as my DH won't do it, but it does seem to me like the one thing to try if trying to solve the problem together hasn't worked.

I do think it's a good sign that she's willing to talk to you about it.

@GrumpleMe

I don't at all mind considering the possibility that, actually, she just doesn't love me in that way any more. I'd find that infinitely easier to deal with. I'm not particularly fragile in this regard - if it's over, it's over, we move on and make the best of it. But that's not what I'm hearing from her.

I think we may end up in counselling, but I have almost zero hopes for that. From the way we now argue on the subject I suspect much will be made of my own reaction to the situation (e.g. anger + resentment). Never mind that this only really surfaced years into the problem - it's a symptom, the lack of intimacy is causative.

I think I have zero emotional reserves at this point for any solution that requires me to drag myself over broken glass and apologise for getting angry at being rejected in this way. I recognise that this attitude may be a big stumbling block when it comes to counselling, but my view is that I in no way wish to humiliate her and make her the bad guy, I simply wish to fix it. I'm not so sure she will treat counselling the same way; I'm worried she'll try to 'win'.

Personally I will opt for divorce rather than that, and I doubt any guy with an ounce of pride would pick differently.

I think you should stop worrying about being the instigator of a divorce, far better that than have an exit affair.

I think it could well be that your marriage has run its course and you are not going to be able to reverse the intamacy levels, sad as that maybe

Have you explained that you can't live without a fully consummating marriage? Does she know what the outcome will be?

I've raised it, she knows I will walk sooner or later if this continues to be ignored. The problem is that explaining the consequences of our current situation is essentially making it an ultimatum. Not many people react well to ultimatums, or to implied blackmail, her included.

In her eyes, me complaining about it has 'made it worse'. In my view, ignoring it did nothing, going for months without mentioning it did not help, trying to spend time together did not help, so for me, having it all front and centre is a way to raise the stakes. Either we deal with it, or we call it a day, move on and get on with our respective lives whilst raising the kids.

Incidentally, this is why I wouldn't really countenance an affair, as some have suggested; if the marriage fails I have to think about our post-marriage relationship because we have two kids together. I'd rather we were amicably divorced than me sneaking around.

You're right that she can't help it, but she CAN help not doing anything to improve the situation. If she doesn't want to go and see the GP and isn't being at all proactive in trying to find a solution then that's a big problem. Because if she loved and cared about you and wanted your marriage to be great and to last the rest of your lives then she would work with you in whatever way she could. A sexless marriage can work is neither party is that bothered by having sex, but its a relationship killer if one party is making a unilateral decision to permanently deprive the other party of a sexual relationship. If you're not having sex then you're just co-parents, housemates, friends.

It's helpful to see the contributions from women who are or have been on the other side of this, so thanks for those.

It does make me wonder whether, fundamentally, she simply doesn't feel sexually attracted to me at all any more. I have asked her this as gently and non-judgementally as I can, but she reacts very angrily to the suggestion.

As people have suggested, I do think that a distinct possibility is that, via counselling or some other method, we gradually get to the point where she can admit that to herself and me.

Bit depressing to have to go through this song and dance for that to be the outcome; the sky would not fall in if she told me directly, we would just have an amicable divorce.

I don't at all mind considering the possibility that, actually, she just doesn't love me in that way any more. I'd find that infinitely easier to deal with. I'm not particularly fragile in this regard - if it's over, it's over, we move on and make the best of it. But that's not what I'm hearing from her.

So what ARE you hearing from her, specifically? What does she think is the problem, or the solution?

She's very unlikely to come right out and say she doesn't find you sexually attractive. It sounds like she still cares for you very much, she won't want to cause you pain. As much as you say you could handle hearing it.

Going to a GP can't bring back sexual attraction to a specific person. I'm not sure what the answer is for you, OP. For me, the answer was for me to end my marriage to give my ex husband the chance to find someone who fancies the pants off him. That was never going to be me again.