Wife has no interest in sex or even holding hands!

[Jimbo54]

I am 40 years old. My wife is 8 years younger. We have a four year old and a two year old. Since my wife fell pregnant the first time, we have had sex about eight times (mostly when she, very occasionally, gets drunk). We have had absolutely no other intimacy – kissing, cuddling, anything. This isn’t by any stretch my doing. I love my wife and find her very attractive. But she simply is not interested at all in me, physically. I know what you will say – talk to her about it! I have tried. But she clearly feels uncomfortable talking about sex or intimacy and the closest thing I’ve got is “you don’t you appreciate that I’ve just had two children” with a look to say “you selfish pig, how can you expect me to have any interest in you when I’m so busy with the work/children”. Well, yes, of course I appreciate that, but I don’t see why there should be a complete embargo and for so long. It is destroying our marriage and I just cannot get it out of my mind. She says that I am a good father and I have a great relationship with the boys, but, I have to say, in fairness, she has done more of the heavy lifting with our second child than me. But I am starting to think she simply doesn’t want me in that way (she is objectively more attractive than me) and I find that very upsetting. But then I think back that when we got married, it took two weeks to consummate the marriage, so why am I surprised now? Further that, even now, when we rarely do have sex (and only the most vanilla of activity is allowed (for example, she won’t even allow snogging!)) I just know that she wants it over as quickly as is decent. In fact, now I think about it, she has never, not once, in at least the last eight years, instigated sex or any form of intimacy and I always have to do the running. I am now thinking enough is enough. But I could really do with a second opinion. Am I being selfish? Isn't this madness? What do I do? Help!

Seething ball of resentment was me, alright.

On getting the old mojo back? It's all the cliches, I'm afraid.

We're working on it, it's ongoing (and sometimes great and sometimes not).

In the beginning, giant fights, instead of seething resentment - so I said all this stuff and said all this stuff and tried to lay it all out (as did he) - so it's pretty poor comms but it's better than seething silence.

And I said it and said it and said it and still say it, whenever I was feeling it.

I went to GP and got pills for anxiety, because guess what? Doing all that stuff all alone, being responsible for everything, makes you pretty damn anxious. So I feel more resilient.

I tried to share the work, made genuine efforts. Even when it is bloody hard and annoying - like DH does a foodshop (and therefore meal planning and food budget) every second week now, and he still asks me to help, and it takes like 2 evenings to my 2 hours, so it's way harder to do, but I am determined to stick with it and he is getting better at it of course he is, hes's not stupid. (And now he realises that shopping is the easy part, meal planning and budgeting - the invisible thinking parts - are the hard parts.) Shared more of the easily quantifiable work (like bathing the kids - he does it every day now).

But also some harder stuff - like he did the budget for a few months (and then HE got all stressed about money. Which was brilliant(ish) because, see, it's not just me being a financial drama queen.)

He is trying, he really is - so he is thinking about packing now, and just acknowledging it makes it better - him just saying 'Wow, you brought the fairy lights, I would never have thought of that' - that's nice.

We agreed he needs to increase his salary by X amount within 2 years or give up his current cushie easy job and find something else. So we can share some of the financial burden.

I joined the gym, and I go, and I try to make it a priority over everything - kids homework, housework, friends. I am still a total porker and don't feel very good about myself but it has really helped.

Then it all started to get a bit easier.

Then I started to talk to him without snapping. And trying to nice things for him, like I do for the kids, without resentment.

We went on holiday, and it was sunny. And I made myself have sex with him. The first time it was genuinely like that - making myself do it. (Well at first anyway.)

Then, when he looked all expectant the next day, I explained that I am not a fucking machine and you don't get to not sleep with me for 2 years (or whatever) and then just expect the tap to get turned straight back on again! Takes a bit of work! And I set myself a mental target, like not going longer than x without shagging.

So ongoing, but I feel like a proper sex life is an option again, as is just intimacy and cuddling, and I kind of wish I had namechanged before I wrote this.

I read "Wifework" and that was a bit of an eyeopener for me. I'm not that much of an old-school man, my upbringing was pretty equal (at least in the house) and I knew how to run a household and manage finances etc... Even so, it was a surprise to see just how easy it is to fall into the societal steretypes.

I wish DW would read it, I tried to get her to at one point, but she said she liked being a housewife. I thought that missed the point a bit, but didn't push it. She's never really enjoyed any of the wage-paying jobs she's had so it's not that much of a surprise I suppose.

Anyway, the point is maybe some of you could get your partners to read such literature to see 'how the other half live'? Behaviour change is all good, but an understanding and empathy behind it would be even better. Maybe.

In a way OP, I hope it is the kind of resentment issue people talk about, or even your personal care, because these things can at least be addressed.

The withdrawal of intimacy and emotion by DW for months or years at a time is all too common - in many cases I think it is why men don't feel in the least bit guilty about eg: not doing half of the housework or whatever - "this is the very least you deserve given all the misery you try to heap on me and the way you are wasting all the best years of my life down the drain without even being interested, all whilst having the gall to resent me". Then on the other side of the fence an equal/opposite monologue of woe-is-me happens at the same time.

The war of resentment is a tragic thing and something we all need to avoid getting embroiled in, people trapped in their own little narratives of entitlement might are never going to communicate.

It might be worth seeing if you can chip away at any perceived ills on the part of DW for a few months, and address the issue of your own physical condition a bit too, and see if these things make a difference.

I won't address the possibility you hint at in the OP, that there isn't any love or attraction there, because if that is the case, it will become clear to you eventually.

Have you tried asking your wife what would make her life better? And if you have, and she gave you an answer, what did you do to implement that? At the moment it seems like you want her to do things for your benefit but have no interest in what she might want or like or need.

For instance, how much time does she actually have for herself - eg time to go for a walk, see a friend, read a book, without either you or the DC pawing at her and wanting something from her?

apeman what's with the 'perceived ills'? What makes you think these are perceived, and not actual, ills?

And can you elaborate on:
'"this is the very least you deserve given all the misery you try to heap on me and the way you are wasting all the best years of my life down the drain without even being interested, all whilst having the gall to resent me"'

• so what's this side of the 'woe-is-me-ism'?

keepithidden good advice.

'Seething ball of resentment'

Perfect description - in fact I still seethe when I do a lot of hoovering - even though DH works away most of the time and I only have to clean up after me! The anger still bubbles up.
God I must have been angry at the time (when DCs were at home and DH never helped)

likelcan but it's alright for the many women who come on here to discuss their sex life with their husband? That's just a stupid thing for you to say

Everything Faithless said.

YY OhGood. I've been there too. I feel your every word!

lotsofcheese

"I genuinely think that many men (sorry to generalise!) just don't "get" the sheer amount of things that need doing, probably as they never have to."

Sorry, but I had to call bs to this - I'm sitting here after a day home with my DCs. I've cut the grass (which entailed fixing the lawnmower), fixed broken shelf units, painted the fence (oil based paint so a LOT of afterwork), hoovered, took the DCs out for a walk, cleaned the kitchen from top to bottom, washed and hung out a houseful of clothes (including more that needed to go in after the DCs got in a mess), ironed everything after it came in, cooked a meal for us all, washed every plate, dish and fork, bathed the DCs, got them ready for bed, made their supper.

DW comes in, has dinner then says "I'm off out".

But never mind, because I can relax at my full-time management job for the next week (including Saturday, incidentally).

But men don't GET how much needs done, so it must be OK.

Josh you sound wonderful and not one of the many men who don't get the sheer amount of things that need doing. Doesn't mean there arent 'many men' who aren't like you though

The sadness & anger seems to stem from; lack of communication, touching, leading to lack of any further intimacy

separate bedrooms - why ?

Perhaps your wife feels that her body & life have changed dramatically after children

Perhaps your wife does not want to get pregnant again, what contraception do you both use ?

Your wife seems to have put her children as first priority

Can you see yourself in exactly the same status in 2,5,10 years time ?
If you want change you both need to work on your marriage or consider seperation

Atleast you have realised that you are unhappy & you are trying to improve the situation

Good luck

Josh you aren't "many men" or "all men". No one is saying here all men don't do or see stuff. Clearly some men do. Many don't. And some of those men wonder what the fuck is going on in their relationship? and why doesn't my wife want to have sex with me? when what is going on is they see housework/child rearing etc as something that is beneath them and requires a vagina and their wife is wising up and turning off.

Clearly you are not one of these poor ignorant souls.

Joysmum

I'm not wonderful, though. I just do what needs doing and I can't imagine how other households could work otherwise.

I'm not having a dig - I'm genuinely puzzled how a household works when you are both bringing in a wage (I am FT, DW is PT) but not sharing chores.

your experience as a man does not mean all men are like you

BeCool

Fair enough - just having a vent and hope I didn't offend.

FWIW - DW is now back home and I am being told how poorly I've done everything today. Where's that beer at? ;)

:) I'll join you

[clink] :)

Have I missed something here ? It seems that the general consensus is that OP DW doesn't want to have sex because OP may not be pulling his weight with household stuff. (Not necessarily true - but a generally proscribed theory) can I just mention that women quite like sex too ? That it isn't normally something to be bargained on. - he does the dishes, and reads the bedtime stories = she feels like dtd ? Surely MOST women actually want to have sex at some point regardless of the scores on the doors re housework. Surely it's just plain strange that an adult female in a marriage simply has no interest... Just saying, but as far as I know, it's actually quite enjoyable for BOTH sexes and not something to be 'Put up with and granted in return for household chores' . Sorry OP. It's over, please don't have an affair but you deserve a normal sexual relationship at 40. Call it a day, find someone who loves you, wants to hold hands, wants to give you a hug and bang you senseless ??

Kittens: it's difficult to feel sexual attraction for someone who is dumping all the domestic work on you and expecting sex. It turns sex into another chore that you are expected to perform for your partner, rather than to enjoy it for yourself.
It's also fairly true that men who see both housework and being sexually available as things women do for men are crap at sex - they are only interested in their own enjoyment and not prepared to spend any time or energy on sexual acts that are more pleasurable for her than for him.

kittens but feeling resentful and angry with someone DEFINITELY equals not wanting to have sex with them.

in our celibate patch I wanted to have sex, of course I did.

Just not with DH.

Really, I should have namechanged.

josh I know! How does it happen? We are both reasonably nice intelligent well-intentioned people. How the hell did we get there?

My only thought is that it happened with the advent of the kids. Life just changed so abruptly and dramatically we almost had to start again, and it went really wrong.

OhGood

You're onto something there, although I think the underlying attitudes (?) that cause problems are probably there from the start, they just become apparent once you have children and the extra work/less time that results. Does that make any sense?

JoshL: since you asked, I'll tell you how it works in a household where both parents work & household chores are not shared.

Today my partner has been to work. So have I.

His "household contribution": putting DS to bed. Tomorrow he will do nothing as he is away for business.

Today, I have done all drop-off's & pickups for nursery/school, laundry, homework, cooked dinner, tidied kitchen, a multitude of phone calls (DC's swimming lessons, haircuts etc), laid out clothes for tomorrow, organised breakfast.... I could go on.
I will do it tomorrow too.

So I've got all the domestic drudgery, plus working, albeit P/T. I didn't sign up for sole domestic responsibility & it makes me ??.

I don't think this is a housework/wifework issue.

I went off sex for a long time with my STBXH for all the reasons others have mentioned -- feeling unsupported, resentful doing 90% of the housework, touched out, not being made to feel special. But I was the one raising it with him.

OP is going out of his way to raise this with her and she's shutting him down. Admittedly he may be coming across in a slightly entitled way and she does have grounds for feeling knackered and resentful.

But its not as if he's totally happy bumbling along with the status quo. He's trying to get through to her. And she's heading him off at the pass every time. Not just about sex (which would be understandable) but about intimacy.

I'm afraid I also think she's checked out of the marriage. No idea why. But to not want to have any emotional intimacy with your partner/father of your kids at all and to not want to do anything to repair it points to total disengagement, for my money.