Wife has no interest in sex or even holding hands!

[Jimbo54]

I am 40 years old. My wife is 8 years younger. We have a four year old and a two year old. Since my wife fell pregnant the first time, we have had sex about eight times (mostly when she, very occasionally, gets drunk). We have had absolutely no other intimacy – kissing, cuddling, anything. This isn’t by any stretch my doing. I love my wife and find her very attractive. But she simply is not interested at all in me, physically. I know what you will say – talk to her about it! I have tried. But she clearly feels uncomfortable talking about sex or intimacy and the closest thing I’ve got is “you don’t you appreciate that I’ve just had two children” with a look to say “you selfish pig, how can you expect me to have any interest in you when I’m so busy with the work/children”. Well, yes, of course I appreciate that, but I don’t see why there should be a complete embargo and for so long. It is destroying our marriage and I just cannot get it out of my mind. She says that I am a good father and I have a great relationship with the boys, but, I have to say, in fairness, she has done more of the heavy lifting with our second child than me. But I am starting to think she simply doesn’t want me in that way (she is objectively more attractive than me) and I find that very upsetting. But then I think back that when we got married, it took two weeks to consummate the marriage, so why am I surprised now? Further that, even now, when we rarely do have sex (and only the most vanilla of activity is allowed (for example, she won’t even allow snogging!)) I just know that she wants it over as quickly as is decent. In fact, now I think about it, she has never, not once, in at least the last eight years, instigated sex or any form of intimacy and I always have to do the running. I am now thinking enough is enough. But I could really do with a second opinion. Am I being selfish? Isn't this madness? What do I do? Help!

It's not just lack of sex though but lack of any intimacy at all.

OP has your attempts at hugging etc always been a precursor for sex? If so I can understand why they get rebuffed. Did you try to be intimate in a kind loving stand alone way?

Completely agree with queenruth!

Jimbo are you involved as equals with housework, child raising, family finances and decisions etc?

Inequality in this area can be like a cold bucket of sick re sexual attraction for many women.

You don't have to be in a sexless marriage but I think you do have to look at why you're not pulling your weight at home.

And why you're seething when resentment over sex? Rather than love or intimacy.

She could be very resentful of you, I think
you need to ask about that.

She may not fancy you because she can sense your resentment - if you couple that with you not participating enough in running the household (in her perception) then it's no wonder she doesn't want sex.

The bottom line is you are very distanced from each other - there is no talk of shared interests or laughter.

I agree with previous posters about feeling touched out and exhausted. DD breastfeeds, including during night wake-ups, and DP works long hours, so I feel like I don't have any personal space- she is just on me all the time. Even when she's sleeping, I don't relax because it's me that does all the laundry and washing up. DP manages the occasional night out, or goes to play football; I have not been out since DD was born (she's 2 this summer).

All of this adds up to me feeling exhausted, a bit irritable, and desperate for some personal space. When DD's in bed, I'm grateful for the chance to just sit down without anyone pawing at me. Our sex life has suffered, from at least once a day to a couple of times a month. The things that have helped have been DP taking DD out for a couple of hours on one of his days off, or telling me to put my feet up in the evenings while he makes dinner, basically carving out that time for me.

Whatever you do, don't cheat on your wife. It's sleazy, you owe her more than that, and you (hopefully) would feel awful about it. If you really feel like you have exhausted all possibilities and are ready to move on, then end your relationship first.

I don't do enough round the house. I know that. I have a very demanding job with long hours, but I know that's no excuse. But the thing is, I feel so resentful about her attitude to me that I feel like saying "why should I make an effort if you won't". I know - appalling on my part.

I certainly don't paw her. We have been in separate rooms for a couple of years (save for the odd night) and I don't ever physically approach her because I know I will be rebuffed and I hate that feeling. What I do is occasionally, when I have the courage, ask her about sex and she just bats it back.

You shouldn't be seeing domestic work as doing her a favour. Fuck sake.

All those things you mention, date night, counselling etc OP might be perceived as requiring huge effort from her, if she is knackered from children,house etc she could see this as just another attempt to make her give you attention, that requires energy she may not have. I know I used to feel like this. Maybe try taking the pressure off and, like I suggested previously, allowing her some time to herself.
Dating sites - end of relationship

Aw this is so sad im not having a go but I dont know how people can live with the lack of effection. Sounds like she could have some emotional stuff going on rather than not been attracted to you. I think you need to talk to her again and let her know how its making you feel. Counsilling works wonders never had relationship councilling but Ive been for anxiety issue and pnd and my DH has had councilling in the past for issues and I dont think we would be together now if he hadnt of done the councilling and sorted some things in his head.

Good luck x

Have you anyone who could look after children for the evening over night and spend some quality time together?

I'd divorce my husband if he opened a mumsnet account to talk to other women about our sex life.

I'd divorce you if you thought even for a second that talking about your problems anonymously is the wrong thing to do. Asking for help is never wrong.

OP - read Faithless's posts again.

If you know you aren't sharing the drudgery sufficiently you need to fix this. I never appreciated feeling like the unpaid servitude to the family. XH had a very high pressured job, but would sit on the sofa of an evening whilst I did everything.

Having a high pressures job doesn't excuse you.

And think about getting a cleaner.

At the end of the day, many mums are exhausted and just want to collapse inf root of the TV with a glass of wine.

Why don't you try just giving her a hug in the morning, and nothing more. Build up the affection and trust. Just cuddle her in bed, and make it clear that's all you want, nothing more. Perhaps watch some American sitcom at the same time. It may be a start.

1/ either do more around the house or pay someone to help out. Don't say you don't do enough and then moan about the consequences. Why should she do everything?

2/ does your dw work? Has this been discussed. Perhaps if she does not, she might like to.

3/ don't join a dating site. It is not fair on her, on the person you date, theur partner not on yourself. Ultimately it will end in divorce and your kids knowing that you caused the marriage breakdown. It will end with you coming to collect your kids from someone who hates you (not good for the kids). If you really, really cannot cope, do the decent thing and leave. Split amicably and sort out shared parenting.

Jimbo, it is not unusual for a woman to choose a man for his procreative abilities. She will feign sexual interest in him and, when kids come along, fuck him off emotionally and sexually. I think this is what has happened here, and it's a shame so many women use having kids as an excuse for not having the energy for intimacy. Kissing and complimenting one another and being kind and attentive are all real turn-ons and you sound considerate and caring to me. I don't think she will change. I don't think you should have an affair. I think you should leave.

..and no..I don't care how un-feminist that sounds.

vodkanchocolate - she's an Aussie and my parents live miles away. we have had two nights out in 4 years.

I really don't think it's too much to ask, to just hold hands or have a hug. Even if she is very tired. After all once a year would be a better average than we now have.

When I try to talk to her, she always, erroneously, takes it like I am giving an ultimatum. Which I am not. she then storms off and changes the subject.

Aww im sorry dont know what else to suggest. But this sounds like a really unhappy home for you right now.

I agree with the poster who said about too many people use kids as an excuse I have friends who basically just think they cant be arsed anymore and think differently about sex. I have 5 children and tbh I love it at bedtime when they are all asleep so can relax with my husband not saying we are at it like rabbits or out but just the fact that we are pretty close

It sounds like you feel like you are at the bottom in the pecking order of your family. You work hard to pay for everything but life at home is not a welcoming place anymore. I dont know how your wife feels as she is not the one posting so can only guess on her behalf. Sex/intimacy is important. Its the glue that holds a couple together. It bonds you and makes everything more bearable. This happens a lot with couples during the child rearing years and leads to resentment on both sides. It doesn't last forever. Children grow up and then its back to the two of you again, hopefully enjoying the next part of your lives. Its easy to take each other for granted now though. You need to put the cards on the table and tell your wife how bad you are feeling regarding lack of any intimacy and how it is casting a shadow over your life together. You need time together to go out as a couple again to find each other. It sounds like your wife doesn't see you as a lover anymore and sees you as a brother type figure and that is not good. If this isn't sorted between you I feel you will end up turning to another woman .

How on earth is someone supposed to do equal house work whilst out of the house for long hrs.. Running a house is all about team work, those couples that put each other first before kids, work and hobbies survive.. Those that drown in careers, studying and spend every moment smothering their children don't..
Intimacy and sex forge deep friendship, love and is the glue that holds marriages together, forsake it at your peril..

And unfortunately it's the bloody taxpayer that has to support all these bad choices that married couples make, marriage is a promise.. Happy couples equals happy families equals stable society..

My advice is an ultimatum, either get the marriage back on track which requires participation from both people or she can sling her hook and be tired some where else.. Probably at the tax payers expense..

You need to take the focus away from 'sex' and onto intimacy.

Not sleeping together, no hugs, fun, affection, nights out are your problem - not sex.

Get a cleaner, ironer, babysitter, gardener if you're not able or prepared to pull your weight.

Then go out to the pictures or dinner and say you're sorry you've let things get to that stage and that you miss her and being friends with her. Take sex off the table for six months and instead aim to
have an actual relationship with her.

Or get divorced.

As soon as you start to see that this is some of your problem and start to deal with the anger you feel then it will improve.

Fwiw - I would know you only wanted sex, that you were resentful and angry with me. And I would never shag the man you're presenting to us here today. Your focus on sex instead of intimacy is incredibly off putting.

JImbo,

It sounds like she is angry with you, I am not saying you did anything wrong, its just if she works and has to DC to look after in the evening, she is probably shattered.
I know a lot of women take on the lions share of childcare, even with a full time job.
Sometimes, you both just fall into your roles and you think everything is fine, but can't understand why she doesn't want to be intimate with you and therefore there's a big problem with her.
You mentioned going out. Why can't you go and organize a baby sitter. Also, don't just focus on yourselves, why not organize a night out with other friends, people she enjoys seeing. sometimes this takes the focus off just the two of you and its easier to relax. You come home and its been a happy evening.
Sometimes its the little things that count for so much.
Bring her a cup of tea in the morning/evening without asking.
Pop up, put the DC to bed, read their stories, get them to sleep, tell her you have it sorted. Even to do this twice a week is huge.
Buy her little gifts adhoc, nothing expensive, just showing her you are thinking of her.
Send her little texts/short phone calls during the day, I get one daily and the call might only last 1 min as he walking to his lunch, just checking in to say hello.
Only you know your DW, there may be bigger issues in hand, but don't keep trying for the big chat, it will only put you W on the defence. Try to see it from her point of view.

All the best.

Honestly, partners who don't help around the house, see anything they do as doing a massive favour as they are knackered and been at work all day, and feeling like everything is loaded, that the end goal is to get sex and inadvertently you have barely spoken to them all day is a massive turn off.

What you say you are doing to give her space and not hassle her for sex could well be making her feel I like she's not worth talking to unless you want something.

when you have had hours to speak to someone and you start pawing at then the second they are trying to sort stuff out around the house doesn't make them feel wanted or loved. It feels like someone's basically pissing up your leg and has no respect for how your feeling energy wise having taken care of kids and house all day.

You sound very considerate and kind in your words. but your actions are not showing this and I can see how your wife may be feeling. Every one of those things you have listed cab be taken in other negative ways regardless of how you mean them to be. You see space, she sees being ignored. you say date night she sees wanting sex again. You say your sorry but your tired, she sees you having no respect for how she is feeling.

you both really need to be honest with eachother. It's miserable living like this

Does your wife come onto MN?

If you're unwilling/unable to do more in the house, could you pay for extra help there?

Why did it take so long for you both to consummate your marriage?

Does she ever have a break from the children? Do you have the children on your own at all at the weekend? Do you bath them and get them ready for bed, so that she can have a break?

I don't think it's got anything to do with the kids or pulling your weight around the house (though I'm sure these don't help) - it sounds like she has just never been very sexual. It really isn't the norm not to have sex on your honeymoon.

It sounds like, now she has children, she's completely checked out of the marriage. I'm sorry but I think it's over.

"When I try to talk to her, she always, erroneously, takes it like I am giving an ultimatum"

Perhaps the time has come for you to do just that. In any relationship communication is a must, and that's the only way you will resolve this situation. Sleeping in separate rooms is also a killer, not just for sex, but for the loving closeness that is so necessary for most people. You really do have to persist with the communication - ultimatum? - unpleasant though it may be, if you are ever to have the relationship you both deserve.