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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Are the "rules" different if DH is a "genius"?

302 replies

EquityDarling · 19/05/2015 17:56

name change for this one...

I have been together for 8 years (married for 6) to a DH who is generally acknowledged (although not by himself) to be a "genius". With a few details changed to avoid outing but convey the essence, he is a renowned artist (in a very specialist field), a widely published faculty member at a top university and a leading campaigner on a particular political/social issue who is often interviewed in the press/asked to give evidence to select committees etc. His intelligence and talent was obvious from an early age, making him something of a freak child, which his lower middle class aspirational parents did not deal with well - they were embarrassed by his "weirdness" and constantly put him down so that he is utterly lacking in self-confidence and can have trust issues and react in a very hostile manner to anything he perceives as criticism. He has an incredibly strong sense of justice and fairness, hence the campaigning work in an area which is often difficult, unpopular and makes him lots of enemies.

I am definitively NOT any kind of genius, just an averagely bright professional from a happy, stable family.

DH and I in many ways have a really fantastic relationship - he is so fascinating, massively enthusiastic, really interested in my views on everything and flatteringly attracted to me sexually. But when he goes through a period of extended stress, which is happening at the moment, due to various issues of principle related to university politics and the wider issue on which he campaigns, he can be very difficult to live with. I have no problem with the things which are upsetting him - he is quite justified to think they are shockingly hypocritical and corrupt and I share his concern about them - but his anger and upset has simply taken over our lives to a degree which is really driving me down. He has immense energy, hardly sleeps and wants/needs to talk about what is bad and wrong and how down it is making him, around the clock. I feel as though the only place I can get any peace is at work.

We have had some counselling (both joint and separate) and I have found that my best coping mechanism is an approach called "radical acceptance", whereby I have to let him talk it out without trying to 'solve' the problem, accept that if we go out with friends he will often spend the evening staring angrily at his phone, posting furiously on various specialist discussion boards, or ranting about how awful something is until it fills up the whole of the space. The same happens if we go to see my family or if he and I go away for the weekend. Basically I accept what I can't change and draw a few agreed boundaries where I can, for example he no longer calls me at work for long rants and has mostly stopped waking me up in the middle of the night to tell me things. I (sort of) knew this was what I was getting into when I married him and I know he genuinely cannot help it, but I am beginning to doubt my ability to see this through in the long term, particularly since the issues currently enraging him aren't going to go away.

I do not believe this is emotional abuse as it is not calculating or manipulative, he is simply overtaken by the strength of his emotions and finds it very hard to self-sooth, but I am wondering whether I am letting my own needs slide to a degree which is damaging. Please be gentle lovely Mumsnetters but advice would be appreciated...

OP posts:
springydaffs · 21/05/2015 01:47

Equity, you seem very... nice. Kind, solicitous, sensitive to people's feelings, not wishing to offend.

I think to make any headway with someone like your husband, to avoid being gobbled up whole, you need to be a bit of a tough bitch. (Alright then: recognise and set rigid - ie immovable - boundaries). I just can't see that in you, not a squeak of it. That's a worry.

I fear 'he' will destroy you, rolling over you with his tank wheels, oblivious to your 'uh, darling! Could you just, uh, steer a little to the left because, uh.. oh! look out!
He: 'I was in the zone!'

You do know he's going to get worse, yes?

(Not very helpful - sorry. Just my impression)

suzannecanthecan · 21/05/2015 07:47

There must surely be female equivalents to this type of man, even if they are less likely to find a partner willing to indulge them??

UptheChimney · 21/05/2015 08:58

The behaviour described by so many posters on this thread comes close to making me angry ridiculous I know, it's just strangers on the internet

According to the batteries of IQ tests I've done in my life, I have a genius level IQ (over 140), and I'm really top in my [academic] field, but I would never ever behave as the OP describes her DH as behaving, or the number of other posters describing their partners. No-one would ever talk to me or give me a job if I behaved half as badly as the stuff I'm reading here.

Hey -- I'm female. Hmmmm maybe that's the difference.

Why is ANYONE enabling the kinds of appalling behaviour I'm reading about here? Oh, because they're men.

This is why as Virginia Woolf wondered, there is no "Judith Shakespeare." Women enable and facilitate appalling behaviour by apparently "talented" or "genius" men. To cite Woolf again, women are so occupied by reflecting men back to themselves at twice their size, that our own talents etc are eclipsed.

May have to hide this thread ... it makes me very cranky, just how deeply internalised everyone's misogyny is.

springydaffs · 21/05/2015 09:01

Gosh, that's hit the mark with me, Chimney

KERALA1 · 21/05/2015 09:04

Applauds upthechimney

Mrsjayy · 21/05/2015 09:09

A poster mentioned pages back special snowflake this is how you are treating him and how he is behaving your husband has work issues thats all and taking them out on you it is not ok his intellect does not give his ego permission to inflate he is not better than you he needs to sort himself out

suzannecanthecan · 21/05/2015 09:15

A few posters have mentioned that the especially good sex? is some compensation
Doesn't that make him some variety of cocklodger? ?

NewTwenty · 21/05/2015 10:02

When do you get your moment on the stage?

As a bit of light relief, I strongly suggest reading Dodie Smith 'I capture the castle'. Lovely, brilliant book with a 'genius' writer at the heart of a family.

There is a long tradition of brilliant men and their tortured, long-suffering wives. Why were they long suffering? Mostly because the laws and the society of the time meant that they could not leave.

Applecross · 21/05/2015 10:05

Ooh Iove that book too! I've never read a cocklodger thread on here where they were mentioned as being good at sex!

knickernicker · 21/05/2015 10:09

He'd benefit from physical activity to release the tension.

suzannecanthecan · 21/05/2015 10:11

? cocklodger is just a term for someone who believes that sexual favours are all he needs to bring to the table, it doesn't preclude good sex?

Twinklestein · 21/05/2015 10:47

Great post from UptheChimney

Woolf is one of the only examples of fragile female geniuses whose husband saw his role as partly that of a carer. Plath is an example of one whose husband felt her mental health was not his problem and buggered off with another woman.

Even in the 21st c women are still conditioned to see themselves as mothers not only to their children but their partners too. And there's still a tendency for women to gain status through a successful partner rather than going for success themselves.

There seem to be a lot of women on this thread glamourising and romanticising talented but otherwise quite ordinary men as 'geniuses' when really they're just pains in the arse.

AnyFucker · 21/05/2015 10:50

Upthechimney, that is spot on

Op, do you consider it your role in life to reflect your husband's glory back at him and accept that you have none yourself?

this is what he is expecting of you and he considers it his due, as do the people around both of you

is that ok with you ?

"radical acceptance" implies that it is

it wouldn't work for me as my own ego would not allow it

where is your ego on this ?

suzannecanthecan · 21/05/2015 10:55

?The female genius falls by the wayside while her male counterpart is able to recruit a free carer?

Duckdeamon · 21/05/2015 10:58

Ooh it's all getting very feminism board, excellent!

Twinklestein · 21/05/2015 11:09

My understanding is that for some people there is something very creative about the liminal zone before a person crosses over into psychosis or mania

I think the interface between ordinary consciousness and inspiration can be highly creative. But the interface between ordinary consciousness and psychotic or manic states (and psychosis commonly occurs with mania) is hardly creative - generally it's often agitated, confused, disoriented, paranoid, out of touch with reality. There may be loss of reasoning, misperception and false beliefs...

NewTwenty · 21/05/2015 11:31

I think 'The Hours' (amazing book!) also captures some of the tedium of genius.

womanofalbion · 21/05/2015 11:41

There must surely be female equivalents to this type of man.

Yes to this. I know a couple, both extremely well known artists. They are fabulous but again very draining at times. In their case, as with my DH, it is not about any diagnosis or MH situation, it is just who they are. The fact that they are all artists might just be a coincidence or it might not. I don't know.

morethanpotatoprints · 21/05/2015 11:43

I'm sorry I know just as many highly gifted women who are like this, strangely enough though they have mostly opted out of having children.
I certainly don't see it as a male only thing.
As a pp said though, you need to be assertive if you have a partner like this and have clear boundaries.
He is massively invested in your views and you have a good sexual relationship. This is something a lot of relationships don't have and to me it's a case of letting him know what you will and won't stand for.
The couples I know like this when the woman is the gifted one with or without added mh issues the man will say exactly the same as the OP.

EquityDarling · 21/05/2015 12:36

Thanks everyone. And springydaffs your post was very helpful - I think perhaps one angle on this I haven't figured out properly is seeing DH in the context of my own personality. Yes, I do like to be nice and am not good with conflict and brushing off anger but I do have a fairly successful career of my own (in a non-creative area) and it has taken some social confidence (fake confidence sometimes but consistently projected) to get where I have, since it's a field where most people's background (typically male, public school) is very different from my own. Dh gets that and respects me for it. He often says he couldn't do what I do - which is actually true.

However, the thing I envy and crave from his "world" is the excitement of ideas, new ways of looking at things, possibilities, which I just don't get otherwise. I love all my "old" friends and still have great relationships with them but DH has widened my horizon to meet lots of creative people who are, on the surface, generally less socially considerate and more direct than my friends, but once I get used to that just being a way of operating I have found it fascinating. As a kid I was much more withdrawn, a loner, obsessively focussed on ideas, books, plays, films etc. and imaginative - as I grew older and felt I had to get a proper job, I "overcame" that in order to get ahead and in some ways I miss it.

I wonder if, at the moment, I am feeling stuck between two worlds - wanting to be more like DH (except in his worst moments obviously) and passionate about what I do whilst still feeling I have to hold it together and be a "normal" person for my day-job. I think there is conflict and a bit of jealousy in there.

Thank you everyone for all the interesting perspectives. I love Virginia Woolf's work, but from everything I have read her I think she would have been a nightmare to live with and Leonard was practically a saint. I wonder whether the freedom to be a "selfish genius" relates not only to gender but to class? There is an interesting book called "Mrs Woolf and the Servants" which suggested strongly that she didn't place much emphasis on her female servants having rooms of their own.......

OP posts:
Twinklestein · 21/05/2015 12:43

In other words your partner expresses your latent creativity that you set aside to follow your chosen career.

Duckdeamon · 21/05/2015 12:43

I bet you ARE creative yourself. To have a senior role and things and those interests when you were young. There are different kinds of creativity, eg improving incrementally, practical and social problem solving. Just less flashy and stereotypical!

I work somewhere not obviously creative - colleagues definitely have some creative interests and buried talents! Eg one seemingly straight-laced colleague recently revealed she was a champion disco dancer!

EquityDarling · 21/05/2015 12:56

Yes Duckeamon - I love it when you find out things like that about colleagues! I once came across an amazing country and western singer in HR.

Twinkelstein I think that is right. This thread is really helping me - I think I'm struggling to define the question I need to ask myself. Maybe it is "am I paying too high in terms of exhaustion/stress for the intangible benefits I get from our relationship"?

OP posts:
Coffee1234 · 21/05/2015 13:11

If you were in a relationship with someone equally attractive (to you) who was less brilliant but more temperamentally even would you feel relieved? Or would things just seem a bit flat?

EquityDarling · 21/05/2015 13:17

That's an excellent question Coffee. I think it might be a bit flat. But then I worry that I am addicted to a bad drug! Grr - this is difficult!!!

OP posts:
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