Are the "rules" different if DH is a "genius"?

[EquityDarling]

name change for this one...

I have been together for 8 years (married for 6) to a DH who is generally acknowledged (although not by himself) to be a "genius". With a few details changed to avoid outing but convey the essence, he is a renowned artist (in a very specialist field), a widely published faculty member at a top university and a leading campaigner on a particular political/social issue who is often interviewed in the press/asked to give evidence to select committees etc. His intelligence and talent was obvious from an early age, making him something of a freak child, which his lower middle class aspirational parents did not deal with well - they were embarrassed by his "weirdness" and constantly put him down so that he is utterly lacking in self-confidence and can have trust issues and react in a very hostile manner to anything he perceives as criticism. He has an incredibly strong sense of justice and fairness, hence the campaigning work in an area which is often difficult, unpopular and makes him lots of enemies.

I am definitively NOT any kind of genius, just an averagely bright professional from a happy, stable family.

DH and I in many ways have a really fantastic relationship - he is so fascinating, massively enthusiastic, really interested in my views on everything and flatteringly attracted to me sexually. But when he goes through a period of extended stress, which is happening at the moment, due to various issues of principle related to university politics and the wider issue on which he campaigns, he can be very difficult to live with. I have no problem with the things which are upsetting him - he is quite justified to think they are shockingly hypocritical and corrupt and I share his concern about them - but his anger and upset has simply taken over our lives to a degree which is really driving me down. He has immense energy, hardly sleeps and wants/needs to talk about what is bad and wrong and how down it is making him, around the clock. I feel as though the only place I can get any peace is at work.

We have had some counselling (both joint and separate) and I have found that my best coping mechanism is an approach called "radical acceptance", whereby I have to let him talk it out without trying to 'solve' the problem, accept that if we go out with friends he will often spend the evening staring angrily at his phone, posting furiously on various specialist discussion boards, or ranting about how awful something is until it fills up the whole of the space. The same happens if we go to see my family or if he and I go away for the weekend. Basically I accept what I can't change and draw a few agreed boundaries where I can, for example he no longer calls me at work for long rants and has mostly stopped waking me up in the middle of the night to tell me things. I (sort of) knew this was what I was getting into when I married him and I know he genuinely cannot help it, but I am beginning to doubt my ability to see this through in the long term, particularly since the issues currently enraging him aren't going to go away.

I do not believe this is emotional abuse as it is not calculating or manipulative, he is simply overtaken by the strength of his emotions and finds it very hard to self-sooth, but I am wondering whether I am letting my own needs slide to a degree which is damaging. Please be gentle lovely Mumsnetters but advice would be appreciated...

Hi Equity,

From your posts, I can see you are a good writer. You express things in a witty and insightful way. Perhaps channelling/nurturing this part of you in a group setting (tons of amazing fiction/non-fiction writing groups in London) might mean you don't feel you have to live vicariously through your DP?

What if you were in a relationship with someone equally attractive (to you) who was less brilliant but more temperamentally even, and who loved to read what you'd written, discuss your ideas and maybe even work with you on developing plays for fun?

xposted with fourchette :)

Thanks guys. In fact I do write and have been in a few groups on and off over the years. Dh and I have even made a couple of short-lived attempts at writing together (working styles not really compatible but it was amicable enough)

Maybe what I need to do is be more dedicated and persistent about the writing and then I will feel that I have my own creative "outlet" which might come to something.

Thank you all - this is the first time I've posted a thread of my own and it has been so thought-provoking and helpful.

Great minds Gralick

@Equity - your writing style is good. Your write very fluidly and expressively. Keep going with that! Would love to hear what you've written.

not all high-achieving people come with issues

This. And the old "artistic temperament" thing is complete bollocks also.

If you focused as much time energy developing your own talents (in whatever area) as you do in nurturing your husband's, think what you could achieve...

A male friend of mine went out with 3 female novelists on the trot and I asked him why he didn't just write his own novel, so he did and is now a very successful writer...

I hope you got a cut or at least a thank you twinklestein!

Something else that occurs to me is how do you think your H would react were you to give him less of your time, energy, nurturing, "special snowflake" handling and tolerance for negative behaviours. That is less than you have always done and do now but still within terms of what the "laywoman" might think is reasonable in your circumstances (eg busy job, outside interests, London living, friends and family, no DC). Would he be as passionate about you then?

Team Tomato

Wrong thread! ^^

I did get a cut actually as I edited his first novel and wrote the synopsis for the agent.

Wow - well done Twinkle.

Duck, I think I am going to begin trying that. I have already cut short a nascent rant on the phone this afternoon and he was ok and I have told him that we are going to have a nice bank holiday weekend with no stressing. We shall see how that goes!

Equity
a nice bank holiday weekend with no stressing.
That sounds good to me. Boundaries to protect yourself are a must. If you are able to radically shake off this 'radical acceptance' then I believe you will blossom in your marriage (and even your H will feel better. You will be his garde-fou against his verbal crises.)
Have you ever been together without any buzz around, without any 'noisy' creative people around for a long week-end- ?
I hope you will find time and mental strength to develop your writing skills.

Now come some rambling discourse (in my scorching English.) You are more than welcome to stop reading my post.

I think I am plagued with verbose disease without any genius spark whatsoever to make it somehow bearable.
*
Of course there are many geniuses who are less extrovert, verbal and socially well-behaved. I noticed (I might be wrong) that the tormenting geniuses (my apologies Equity) are usually to be found in what I would call 'verbal areas' such as economics- politics- 'modern painters' - social sciences- theaters, authors..., in short in all arts that presume verbal skills. (My FIL was expert in history and archeology and other stuff).

There are scientists as well who are plagued with the same lack of boundaries and bouts of verbose outbursts however as a rule they tend to be more level-headed and a bit more taciturn- the ones who usually write books for laymen on their scientific field are not necessarily the best in their fields.(My opinion for what it is worth).

Boys and girls:
Now we all know that girls are verbally more gifted than boys so how come this kind of verbally gifted geniuses are less common among women?
Sure enough there are women like that.

• First we have Germaine Greer. Have you seen her a couple of years ago in Celebrity Big Brother? Unbearable! She did not stop talking!
• I tend to think that Simone de Beauvoir was not better. *I love how Virginia Wolf writes. I absolutely loved "A day in the Life of ...' ; I read it in English!!!!!and the movie Hours . But really IMO Virginia herself is a mad arrogant bitch and I do not like her much. Simone is also a little arrogant bitch in my opinion, but a great feminist.

Anyway this kind of annoying verbal behavior is usually associated with some AS symptoms. Now
It is well known that girls are less likely than boys to be on the AS. Besides I just read that girls and boys on the AS neurologically differ- the differences between them is even more significant than the differences between people on the AS and 'normal' people (whatever normal means.) In addition girls are more socially evolved than boys. Anyone who has kids or is continually in contact with kids see easily that.
So our social skills + the neurological differences might explain why girls can more easily than men keep in check their verbal abilities.

Bonne Nuit! and Good Luck Equity

It is well known that girls are less likely than boys to be on the AS.

Not no more. They're now suspecting that there are just as many girls with AS- it's just that the criteria used to diagnose them were traditionally based on the ways that boys present with it. Aspie girls are more likely to be quieter, more introspective, less trouble basically, so less likely to be diagnosed.

They are also more likely to learn to fit in, and "pass for normal". But is that a neurological difference, or just that society expects women to be the social ones, the enablers? I must admit, I am so jealous of my male friend with AS, and some others I know. He is basically shielded and enabled by his DP- he never has to organise a social life- there are enough droppers-in to the house that it just happens- thanks to his DP. Even when I've had a partner, the whole hellish burden of organising social interaction has always fallen on my shoulders- and I feel that my eccentricities have received zero tolerance (life is much easier now that I've managed to hide them almost completely).

Now we all know that girls are verbally more gifted than boys so how come this kind of verbally gifted geniuses are less common among women?

Well, that's a meaty question for the feminism board if ever I saw one! As a short answer, I'd say- because girls are generally being told to shut the fuck up from a very young age!

I can't agree that the 'artistic temperament ' is bollocks because I'm rather relying on it

Seriously though, when I'm in the zone (cringe) I can be, I suppose, insufferable to those around me. Solution: i make sure no-one is around me; or, if there are, they are on whatever project and we're team creative. I just wouldn't subject anyone to it, it's horrible.

Perhaps the difference here is that I (halo) take responsibility for my behaviour and make appropriate decisions around it. It sounds, equity, as though you take responsibility for your husband's 'creative genius', literally clearing the stage for him.

I get it that you feel you can only access this impossibly exciting creativity through him - but, to state the obvious, If you recognise it and are nourished by it then it is inherently in you and you can be the author of it; you don't have to rely on him.

Yy not all who appreciate great 'art' are destined to be great artists. The challenge is to find a way to express - to have the courage to express (perhaps this is what you envy and crave?) - your own flavour.

Crappy words, on phone.

All artists are inspired by other artists/art/beauty (of all kinds, including cerebral) - that's how it goes.

I too once went out with a Brilliant. (to be fair my DH now is pretty high achieving, but just doesn't act up as a side effect.)

My ex had a really lovely, life-affirming intelligence. We are still friends. But he was really hard to live with.

I worked out thinking about it after splitting with my ex that as a couple you form a sort of ‘totality’ – there are some jobs and roles that have to be done within the ‘totality’, being calm and practical, sorting stuff out. If you are with someone who is ALWAYS gets to be the clever, volatile one, sometimes it takes away your own space to be a bit clever and volatile – you’re always needed as the reliable plodder. I didn’t want that personally.

Do you want kids? I have two little ones. You may not do, but if you do, you need to be aware that if you have them, they will demand SO MUCH of you. They will be emotionally and practically needy, you will have to be the reliable one, you will have to be the consistent one. Can you do that with your present partner?

Perhaps bcs I am functioning creatively, I can soak up other/s creativity but I absolutely know when the balance tips, when the source that has been feeding begins to impinge, drain. I don't mean challenge - that's a rich source of inspiration (though it's a fine line!) - but TAKE AWAY. I can't have any creativity stolen - and I know precisely when that happens.

Jealously guard? Selfish? Probably. I'm not in thrall to my creativity because IM THE BOSS: I can choose how I express it. It isn't the absolute top priority I bow before; it just is right up there when I choose . and sometimes I don't choose - there are other things that are right up there eg relationships. All a choice. Not that relationships aren't creative, too...

If you are not functioning in your creativity - not squarely, anyway - you won't immediately know when you, and/or your creativity, is being drained. If you also (erroneously imo) feel you are dependent on him for your creativity, you may view his, and his friends', creative expression as your source, giving him/it cart Blanche. Painful

Inspiration is another thing entirely, which adds, not takes away. He, and his friends, clearly inspire you - and that's great, that's where it's at imo. As long as you're one of them, a creative in your own way, too - perhaps not in their way but your own, which you guard.

OP, I'm an academic with bipolar disorder and I recognise some of my behaviour in your description. I have the obsessions, the crusades, the crippling lows and the overenthusiastic highs. Two differences though: I'm on medication so my moods and behaviour are significantly more stable, and I would never behave so inconsiderately. Whether that's because I'm not a genius (probable) or because I'm a woman and have had it socialised out of me remains to be seen. (Incidentally, I have never, in 15 years in academia, met women with anything near the level of arrogance and entitlement as the men.)

Btw I do get it when he says he can 'hear' when a musician is on beta blockers. Sorry!

But he doesn't have to be a diva about it

Just lost a long post, the essence of which was that the mad genius trope is a hangover from Romanticism, not something Shakespeare or Bach would have recognised. And I and all my friends with successful international academic careers manage to be pleasant to our spouses. OP's DH sounds like a massive pita and radical acceptance an attempt to make the intolerable tolerable.

therapy do you feel the medication has blunted your creativity? Made it easier to work? Or had no effect on that aspect of your life?

Re "artistic temperament"

My take on it. I work with creative artists as part of my job, and come from 3 generations of painters, recently branched out into stage performers of various genres. Believe me, I know about what it takes to make a living in the arts.

And it's mostly practice, practice, practice. Graft, graft, graft. Just like my job is graft, quarrying, grubbing, squirrelling and thumping my head against intractable words and facts.

There is the feeling which is now called "flow" -- a time when all the grubbing away starts to loosen up. A musician or a dancer will experience this when their physical technique is utterly embedded in muscle memory and they can develop artistry.

But the Romantic view (thanks GreatAunt) of a mad eccentric genius has little to do with either the graft or the flow. I find myself wanting to quote Dylan Thomas: "In my craft or sullen art ..."

Craft. That's what Shakespeare would have recognised.

Hard to have self-control when all that toil begins to bear fruit, chimney