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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH has left again

664 replies

AndHarry · 17/05/2015 08:34

Third time in as many years. He sat me down last night and said he was unhappy and thought we should separate. I asked him what he was unhappy about and what I needed to change. It was difficult to pin him down to anything but then it came out: he wants me to do things for him like sew buttons back onto his shirts and fix his trousers when there's a hole in the pocket or the hem has dropped. That's it. He wants to put me through all this again because of a few buttons. It's so incredibly pathetic I would laugh if I wasn't crying.

What it actually boils down to is that he wants to feel respected as the manly head of the household, even if he hasn't put it like that. As I told him last night, it's difficult to respect him when I feel like his mother: organising everything, picking up after him, reminding him of essential things that need doing for the kids, coming into the kitchen many days to find it full of dirty crockery from the day(s) before (I cook, he washes up), struggle to tidy up because the bins are overflowing (his job) and have to cajole him into coming out with the kids instead of sticking on a DVD and lying on the sofa all weekend. I have tried and tried in as many ways as I could think of to make things easy for him and do things for him but get ground down by the sheer laziness of his response. The more I do, the less he bothers.

I said I would do everything around the house if that would stop the arguments and resentment, just to be stonewalled with 'it won't work'. I asked him to try doing the household chores he had agreed to do, consistently, and got 'it won't work'.

I pointed out that I had supported him in going to the gym every morning before work and going out with his friends several nights a week so that he gets his own time. Apparently 'it's not that'.

I said how hurt I was that he had complained about what I cooked so I only made the things he said he wanted but he still orders pizza for himself. How hurt I am that when I did as he asked and made his lunches he didn't eat them, preferring to get fast food instead. 'Shrug'.

The fact is that he has a pretty cushy life but, as he repeatedly points out, he is the 'breadwinner' while I only work because I want to, so anything wrong around the house is immediately my fault for not being wifely enough.

I ended up screaming into my pillow with sheer frustration. He didn't come to bed and this morning he wasn't in the house and his car has gone.

Another fall to the tax office to sort out tax credits tomorrow. Another time trying to keep myself together for the kids, dealing with their anxieties over their dad being gone, pretending that he's in meetings or at the gym every evening. Dealing with my parents' disappointment again.

I'm sorry this is an essay. I don't want anything, just needed to get it out.

OP posts:
AndHarry · 11/06/2015 19:22

So, I have a response. I don't know whether copying & pasting here is appropriate but I could do with perspectives because I am so upset.

Him:

A marriage is never perfect, if you think you've raised the kids by yourself I can understand the above, if I have never done anything to support you then I could see why, if you can say that I haven't been there for you and the kids then maybe a divorce should be considered, but I don't think this is the case. Maybe time apart will help us to appreciate each other more and the things we do, rather than always looking at the things we don't do. This is what I was hoping to get out of a separation. If you can say there is no place for me and I'm a waste of space then all I can say to that is go for it. If you can text me back and say you don't love me, and you can't stand to be with me anymore, then I will accept that.

Me:

This is exactly the problem, you don't think you've done anything wrong. You have humiliated me in about as many ways as there are and you still think this is about me not appreciating you. No I don't want to be married to you. In this month I have done all the stuff around the house, looked after the kids, made lunches, organised everything and done a good job at work despite emotionally feeling a wreck. Why would I want to get back together when you make things harder and treat me so appallingly badly? How dare you?

Him:
I understand where you're coming from, I'm not meaning to belittle you in any way, my text wasn't to say I haven't done anything wrong, I am at fault in many areas, but I try to do what I can with what I have. And despite what you may think, in my heart I want the best for you (names removed by MNHQ) and the DC. Everyone gets tired and laboured with life maybe this has happened to both of us over the last few years. I'm sure you've done well whilst I haven't been there, that's who you are. If there isn't a place for me, then with the best will in the world a place can't be forced open. But BOTH of us have our faults, not just you, not just me. Is your mind and heart set or would you be willing to talk about this further?

I'm sorry about the dating site, this was horrible! It didn't go any further than set up but I know that was bad enough. I may not have cheated on you physically, but to set that up was wrong.

Me:
Obviously there is fault on both sides. I think we could work with that and be all the stronger for having done something so difficult together. But. You either can't or won't see how serious these things that you do are and without that there won't be any progress. I cannot put myself through this again when there is no evidence that you are willing or able to change. Instead, each time has got worse and each time you have been annoyed with me for acting in ways that are to protect myself, like asking you about finances and going back to work. I want to be in a marriage where there is love, trust and selflessness, where I enjoy doing things for my husband because it's a partnership and I know that he does the same for me. Based on the past nearly 7 years, that is not achievable with you. I'd also like to point out that you left, not me.

Yes it was wrong but you have minimised it and got annoyed with me for daring to have an embarrassing and uncomfortable STI test to protect my own health. That is a worse wrong than setting up the profile in the first place and a perfect demonstration of the selfishness and lack of love and concern that I feel you have towards me.

Just Angry :(

OP posts:
tribpot · 11/06/2015 19:29

Harry you've left your kids' real names in the last post, if you report it (I have as well) MN will zap that.

AndHarry · 11/06/2015 19:30

Yes I spotted that and reported straight away. Thanks for doing that too xx

OP posts:
tribpot · 11/06/2015 19:37

Anyway - now to the matter at hand. Stop engaging with him. This is how he has won before, by talking you round, by making you doubt yourself, by twisting everything until you genuinely believe BOTH of us have our faults

You have given him far, far too much. You tried for far too long (despite what you think now about being pleased you didn't follow the advice to LTB sooner) and you allowed him to trample all over you.

Why does this need any more comment than "YOU suggested we separate. I agreed. The end".

He has repeatedly left you. Usually because the shit is hitting the fan financially. When trust is broken that completely, it cannot be repaired. And it particularly cannot be repaired without a full admission of guilt, without complete remorse, and true, demonstrable actions to improve. I'm not sure texting A marriage is never perfect exactly qualifies.

He told you to tell him you couldn't stand to be with him any more and he would accept it. So why didn't you just do that? All the while you engage with him he knows his needling is working and that with more emotional pressure heaped on you he'll worm his way back in.

Lweji · 11/06/2015 19:44

Quite frankly at this point, you should just tell him you don't love him and you can't stand being near him. It's over and that's it.
He chose to leave, you have accepted it and have welcomed it.
At this point, IMO you should only be discussing divorce proceedings. So, keep to one liners: "Have you signed the papers yet?"

Otherwise, you'll just be going round and round in circles and messing with your head.

Jux · 11/06/2015 19:44

Exactly what tribpot said!

Harry, your texts are calm and reasonable. You have made your position clear. It doesn't look like he is going to take the basic, underlying problems on board, does it?

Broken promises
Concealing debts (running up debts in the first place!)
Dating sites
Basic household chores
Isolated and belittled
Demeaning and disrespectful
Loyalty
Needs of you and the children

Those are words/phrases from your first text. Which of those has he addressed? Oh yes, the dating sites. The easiest one to deal with verbally - yes that was wrong, sorry.

I don't think he can fail to understand where you are coming from and where you want to be, but I don't think he wants to help you get there.

tipsytrifle · 11/06/2015 20:50

If you can say there is no place for me and I'm a waste of space then all I can say to that is go for it. If you can text me back and say you don't love me, and you can't stand to be with me anymore, then I will accept that.

I think he is all of the above and that you're past the point of blind acceptance/all forgiveness. I would tell him to accept that you say Enough. What do YOU think? Are you pining for him as the lover of your life and children?

mix56 · 11/06/2015 21:16

I think, he is so very able to change your mind, he sounds very erudite, convincing & amicable.
Well Yes, that is why you have put up with his FUCKWITTERY for so long...
But, BUT, each time you have bent to his excuses, & "for the benefit/for the kids/because it's a nightmare/because you DON'T REALLY KNOW", it carries on....Well this time, in response, to his text If you can text me back and say you don't love me, and you can't stand to be with me anymore, then I will accept that.
tell him , well actually it's time to call his FLAGRANT bluff arsehole

tipsytrifle · 11/06/2015 21:48

I think you should call his bluff, as mix56 suggests.

AndHarry · 11/06/2015 22:19

I feel terrible about it but I can't fix this for him. I want very badly for him to understand what he has done wrong and why it is wrong but I have been through months of counselling with him with me and the counsellor trying and it still hasn't gotten through. I thought it had but I've been proven wrong several times now. It's so very hard to give up hope. What the counsellor had to say to me was hard to take too but I truly believe I got it and made several changes of heart and direction because of it, including on him starting his own business. I didn't like it but I understood that it was important to him and the reasons behind it and so did my best with it. He just hasn't done that.

OP posts:
tipsytrifle · 11/06/2015 22:41

It really isn't your job to enlighten him, dear AndHarry. You are not his educator except in an abstract spiritual way (as in we all teach one another via life experiences)

In concrete truth you were his downtrodden and abused partner deprived of joy and happiness. Might you be able to leave his lessons to him and focus on your own real life goals of being happy again? Please? In time for a glorious summer?

Maybe your lesson is to shake off the imposition/journey of another. The acceptance of free will to be Happy. Your journey isn't his.

AndHarry · 11/06/2015 23:20

I wish I could take his heart in my hands and hold it safe from all the trouble and hurt it faces. I've tried, I can't, he won't let me. Love of my life? I thought so. All the thoughts of my future have him in it, as my best friend and soulmate. It is desperately difficult to face a different future. As much as he wants me to be someone I'm not, in different ways I want the same of him and it isn't going to happen.

OP posts:
Jux · 11/06/2015 23:21

Harry, he knows what you want, what the provlems are, he knows and understands all of it. He hasn't done anything about it because he doesn't want to. That's it. Nothing else. I know it horrible for you to have to face it, of course it makes you sad, yes you will miss him for a while (maybe quite a long while). Ultimately, you will be happier without him, and your children will be happy to have you happy.

Stop contact with him. He will just twist you around and make things harder.

AndHarry · 11/06/2015 23:22

And thankyou MNHQ for zapping the DCs' names Flowers Not that this isn't incredibly identifiable to anyone who happens to know me, but still!

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AndHarry · 11/06/2015 23:26

I know Jux. A year from now I imagine I'll be through the worst. Right now is the tussle between settling back into the groove and breaking into something new. Someone on Facebook has one of those corny quotes up on her wall, something like: "Nothing changes until the fear of change is overcome by the pain of staying the same." That is true for me now.

OP posts:
AndHarry · 11/06/2015 23:29

Anyway, if I cry myself to sleep I'll wake up with a headache and I've got DD to look after tomorrow, so I'm off to bed before I get into an even worse state. Thanks all. You might have noticed that my messages had lots of words borrowed from posters on this thread, who somehow have said what I mean far better than I could myself. You're all a tremendous help.

OP posts:
AndHarry · 12/06/2015 22:26

The latest Facebook craze tells me that my 'true soulmates' are my two best girlfriends. The app has to be right, doesn't it? :o

OP posts:
Dowser · 12/06/2015 22:52

Awww.

I got reams and reams of letters and still ended up being left for another woman.

Yes, it is fuckwittery as someone suggested. I just didn't know it then.

AndHarry · 13/06/2015 20:49

Hey, you got letters! That's decidedly more romantic (in a non-romantic way) than texts.

I'm absolutely shattered. Today I ran a 5k obstacle race, cleared out my bedroom (I can see surfaces!) and dug out a horrible bramble bush from my front garden. I'm covered in scratches, bruises and mud, my fingernails will never be the same again, and I will no doubt ache like fury in the morning but I am so looking forward to sinking into my comfortable bed, not surrounded by random stuff and not feeling guilty about the bush encroaching onto my neighbour's lawn. Result.

Tomorrow I start sorting out the religious side of the marriage. It's going to be a toughie.

OP posts:
mix56 · 14/06/2015 07:58

Well done, you are being strong, keeping busy, & making positive decisions to improve your life...
Brambles scratches are really painfull I hope you had gloves ! KOKO

hellsbellsmelons · 14/06/2015 07:59

Wowzers. That's a very productive day.
I hope you aren't aching too much?
KOKO

AndHarry · 14/06/2015 14:26

It was productive. I keep sneaking looks at the garden and the bedroom and feeling a burst of pride :)

I spoke with my bishop this morning and he was very kind and sympathetic. I asked him about a particular service position that I'll now have time to fill, which he's agreed to, so some good progress there.

Oddly, the mutual friend who was initially very supportive is acting really weirdly. Everyone else gets hugs and chats but I barely get a smile in passing. I'd be incredibly sad to lose him as a friend but I'm trying not to let anything else upset and confuse me right now. It hurts though :(

OP posts:
AndHarry · 14/06/2015 14:27

Oh, and there are plenty of cuts and bruises from yesterday but no aches yet. I'm waiting!

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Jux · 14/06/2015 18:04

I'm glad your Bishop was kind and helpful, and I'm sorry about your friend. Some people feel 'safe' with someone who is attached, and then they have to reassess if the person becomes unattached. He may feel that now dh is away he is now allowed to find you attractive and he doesn't know whether that is wise or not (and it certainly wouldn't be for some dtime). I've not put it well, but you get the idea.

Jux · 14/06/2015 18:06

Did you dig out the bramble completely? We have a massive bramble wall which dh tries to kill about this time every year, and we get loads of blackberries in September anyway! Impossible to kill, it is (thank heavens, we love blackberry and apple pie!).

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