Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

that it had to be followed up Charlotte thank you , via interview . so i said 'no'. i nearly went into meltdown that instead of tellng me how they'd categorise it, which is what i was after, stated the action that needed taking. which is why i later phone WA, which i think i detailed a little bit ^

Fariyfi: Thank you for sharing your experience Name it actually helped to know someone else was hysterically scared of the police coming. I keep running your comment about what others think through my head and i think its more to do with it being so weird me actually not seeing it the same as everyone else so why act. If you don't believe something to be so bad.. police is very alarmist and ott. At this point i'm not understanding what all the fuss is about. (this after calling WA and being told its very serious, and i listened for about as long as i could manage and left the call).

I totally get this. It's not so bad if it's happening to me, yet if it was happening to someone else I would be outraged on their behalf. I have had 3 professionals tell me that I suffered severe emotional abuse but even know I have to rationalise why I left and keep thinking it was to that bad.

When I left H I was wracked with guilt - how will be cope alone, how will he get through the weekends, what will he eat etc. It was all about him during our marriage and very early on I realised I have to put my needs second. I didn't even realise I was doing this until my counsellor pointed it out to me, and now I am trying hard to reverse that way of thinking. Perhaps you are just so used to putting yourself last that you have forgotten that you really do matter, you matter a lot.

If this happened to your friend you would be fuming on their behalf. You are as important as anyone else.

Is there anyone in real life you can tell? I know you don't want to, but when you speak to just one person, see the look of horror on their face when you describe what you have been going through, it takes you one step closer to realising how bad it has been.

thats well done for handing in your notice, it's a big step. Hopefully work will support you with your move, and you can focus on getting rid of your H.

Charlotte I think my H's selfishness comes from the fact that his family have always let him rule the roost, and not really challenged his bad behaviour towards women.

I think it started off as a cultural thing - his family are very very patriachal, something my family isn't really. (It used to worry me bring up daughters in that environment).

But even now his family are saying 'yes he has done wrong but stay with him. If he does it again then you can leave' and his sister will often say 'thats just how men are, they think differently to women, you hurt his pride so you can't blame him for his actions'. So a male-centric culture reinforced by his family might have contributed.

But then none of his family are divorced once, never mind twice. He still chose his actions to some degree, and is old enough to know it's not acceptable.

i have asked for references to 'the incident' I mentioned previously, that is now with the police, to be removed, because of potentially being identifying especially when tied to other recent events.

i'll just refer to it as 'the incident'. hate to feel like i need to be so cloak and dagger about it all but with police being involved an' all. I appreciate your support in this whilst i try to get my head around it.

thank you very much Name - it was saying it yesterday to someone and their jaw-drop reaction, that said you me... 'oh my god, you've shocked her, she shouldn't have to hear this, i've overstepped a boundary here and i must never say stuff like this to her again, its not that kind of relationship" and i felt bad and apologised, because now its weird between us that i told her this and left her feeling this way. She told me exactly what you just said and tried to reverse the roles on me, but i just can't make let it in and scared now as the police are supposed to be calling me and i'll get done for wasting police time or something, as historically the police completely pulled the rug from under me over a pivotal incident from him.

I'm sure there won't be any suggestion of wasting police time, fi, even if there's history there.

How that you worried more about your friend and questioned your own behaviour rather than seeing support and being able to accept it. Have you looked into therapy at all, to help you readjust your belief patterns? It sounds like it's practically impossible for you to recognise your own worth...

I hope that paragraph doesn't come across wrong. If it does, ignore it!

hello... looks like i've got away with not speaking tothe police.. .i was shocked that i might've upset here and yes, when i wrote that i realise how wrong it sounds. It does make me realise though how very well trained i was to worry about his concerns before my own. I stayed much much too long, and yes you are right completely .. thank you.

*her

fi I think I know what you mean about telling friends about things then regretting, I've felt before like I've overstepped the mark with acquaintances by over-sharing. But if her reaction was shock, it's a useful reminder, do you have a counsellor or could you talk to WA?

name I think you've rightly identified the patriarchy in your Hs family. All the things you mention sound so plausible but totally not acceptable. I'd be in despair at your SILs remark that 'you hurt his pride' as paving the way for him to abuse you. Like you caused it?! I struggle with this on a daily basis, not from other people but from myself, thinking that if I were a 'better wife' my life would be sooooo much easier.

As awful as it is, in a way it may be good that you've had this revelation now, when you've got something concrete to point to in his behaviour that clearly crossed a line. Don't lose that momentum, although you don't need me to tell you that! I can't believe that he still won't take responsibility but I suspect, as you've said, it is more to do with his pride. He wants to sweep these incidents under the carpet because they don't fit with his image of himself.

I feel I'm in quite a bad place, at the moment. Had a weird couple of days, totally capitulating to H, in a sort of self destructive way, almost to see what it feels like to be compliant rather than standing my ground. So I've quit my job at his insistence (btw please take this with a pinch of salt so to speak,I do have plans) and have come out to the other house without complaining...when I came out Thursday he wanted sex so I said fine, didn't complain, drove all the way back into town for work on Friday and he told me to leave work early and come back out, so I did... He was actually surprised that I did (as I usually fight to stay in London Friday night so I can go to a yoga class, It was cancelled anyway but I didn't tell him that) so I've had a couple of days of either playing the martyr or being a fake surrendered wife. Not a good game to play, I know, but it feels sort of comfortable. And Hs reaction has been, so far, somewhat pleased that I'm doing as told, but no care or consideration for me whatsoever. I seem to have bad cold/sore throat now, but when I mentioned it yesterday (it's obvious) he told me he'd had a cold a few days ago, no sort-of sympathy? And no mention of me quitting my job, no concern. He knows my job was important to me (btw they don't want me to go but I've had 2 interesting potentials from agencies already so am exhilarated with the possibilities, but its early days. If I were a 'normal' person I would be planning my life but all I'm thinking about is how to handle H) all he cares about is this house, his world, I guess it's something he can control. I didn't even bring the papers out with me, I knew I wouldn't be able to leave them and run.

I seriously think he's got mental health issues, or more likely, his mental health issues are worse because I've been letting him get his own way for so long, things are only 'bad' when I don't go along with him, but i know that! I need to sort this out, now. Well, in the morning as I'm going to try to get some sleep. Apologies for another long rambling rant

Hope you are ok thats - I don't like the idea of you capitulating like this, it's not good for your own needs and own self-esteem. It's not just that things are only 'bad' when I don't go along with him - that's his way of looking at it. That's the sort of language they use - if you weren't behaving in X way, I wouldn't be like this.
It's more that you are being controlled all the time, and in order not to anger him you have to remove all sense of self, all voice, all opinion, all right to be a person in your own right. Only then is he satisfied - and even then, not so satisfied that he can express gratitude to you (eg for quitting your job, for coming out to the house) - his entitlement is such, it's just things as they should be anyway, so why be grateful? It's a case of 'right, this is how I want things, lets keep going and getting things how I want them'.

Stay safe.

thats I agree with ponygirl, I hope you are ok. Please try not to fall into the same trap we have all been in - thinking if only I listen to him then everything will be fine. It won't be, and it shouldn't be. You have the right to be happy too.

Him not caring about your cold, but telling you he had one too is typically abusive behaviour in this context - you wouldn't do that to him and one day you won't have to hear him speaking like you don't matter.

Could you have someone else serve the papers to him? I don't think you should be doing this. And do you not need a witness too? Can WA advise you on this?

fairyfi I am going to have to listen to my own advice. I have decided to tell another person about the assault. My parents and siblings know, but my wider family do not, in particularly my cousins who have kindly been letting him sleep over at weekends when he comes down to visit.

I can't keep feeling like the bad one in this who is pursing a divorce and breaking up a family, whilst he continues to tell everyone how unreasonable I am and how hard he is trying. It does feel like its irreparable once you tell someone, and often I've regretted saying anything at all. But once you have shared, it becomes more real and you realise more and more it's not acceptable.

So don't worry about your friend's reaction when you told her. Just try to keep focussed on getting out of this horrible situation. x

name after I left I talked to a couple of close family members about it who knew things hadn't been right but didn't know the full extent. I found it exceptionally hard. I can still see their utterly horrified faces in response to me relating some (probably more minor, in the scheme of things) incidents in a quite matter-of-fact way, thanks to my extensive minimising. One friend sobbed, and begged me to promise not to go back. I couldn't cope with their horror at what I'd been through, especially when I couldn't process what I'd been through at all and was still sometimes thinking 'maybe it could still work out' and was still seeing him with that view in mind. Their (normal) reaction made it clear to the rational part of me that I couldn't possibly go back but I couldn't square that at that point in time so it just left me in a lot of confusion and made me pull back from talking to people.

Now I find I don't want to see horrified faces, but I don't want to shy away or hide the truth - it's his shame, not mine, and I feel determined not to keep it under wraps. I tend now to say (if talking about the situation with someone new) - 'he really wasn't a nice man', or 'I had to leave for our safety' or simply 'it was an abusive relationship and I got out'. I've found that less is more sometimes, and it saves me from having to relive it all but gets the message across.

So you are not the bad one who is breaking up the family - that's his propaganda, to cover up for the fact that it's him who has broken it up. You are just picking up the pieces to build a new life without him.

i'm revisng previous answer because yes, agreeing, some of it was shock at seeing that reaction and not wanting to; yes, spoke to WA, it made me feel worse for the same reason. Cognitive dissonance anyone? thats sounds like what you've just described too Pony Someone said to me, 'he's just not a very niice man' trying to convince me that he's not abusive and none of this should go to court.

its also feeling exposed after a reveal, as well as this isn't the stuff of all relationships, so i guess a bit of the thing was about thinking more about her feelings over mine. but definitely thinking it wasn't fair to have toldher that, whats she supposed to do, and so on.

There's no such thing as 'bad one for breaking up the family'?! - its just an inevitable consequence. 'Breaking up the family' is not the reason for 'breaking up the family', its a consequence of abusive relationships, that the abuser brought about, and something for him to cling to use against you and its because of our strong desire for our DC to have 'real men' as good fathers for them that they seem to get away with it so much. In reality of course we know its a load of bollocks simply not true.

Stil unwrapping newspaper Silvery?

Yes it's horrible to tell anyone, it's so difficult to offload in that way, and also then paints me as a victim (and maybe a bit silly for staying with him for so long), which I hate.

I told my sister after he assaulted me me because the police where on their way and I was so scared. I told her everything over the next few weeks, and she found it very hard. She cried a lot too. But all is well again now.

I realised that whilst people don't know the truth, they still think there is hope for us and I shouldn't give up on a wobbly but decent marriage. It was good to tell someone the whole truth and hear them tell me I am doing the right thing by leaving him.

He broke up the marriage, not me. I have to turn around my thinking to get to this stage, at the moment it feels like the choice or decision sits with me and I could chose to fix this, but the reality is that he hasn't really given me any other options.

Silvery I hope the packers did a good job and you are enjoying your new home!

letting him get his own way for so long, thats? How exactly would you have stopped him? In any case, you can not bear the responsibility for somebody else's behaviour, or health for that matter.

It is not a mental health problem. It is a power and control problem. And it is not up to you to fix.

I've done that experiment you've been doing, too. It does feel soul-destroying. I felt my insignificance, just like you describe.

But you are fighting your way out, and you won't always be treated like this.

this:
Yes it's horrible to tell anyone, it's so difficult to offload in that way, and also then paints me as a victim (and maybe a bit silly for staying with him for so long), which I hate.

i'm trying my damndest to think of a positive word for any of it right now. That you point to of the incident i talked about. You tell someone that, and either dont recognise it for what it is, like it must just be an overreaction, or if you then realise how potentially dangerous then feeling stupid, very stupid, and why did i stay, etc. absolutely. I'm feeling really lost in it at the moment.

Hi everyone. I'm on the bones of my arse in this marriage so I thought I'd finally join you guys.

Anyone attempted Relate with their spouse?

Welcome Silent, sorry you are going through this too.

I haven't attempted Relate, my DH was abusive and so its not recommended in those circumstances. Are you thinking of going?

fi it's like you say, you are lost at the moment. You have been transported to a bad place at the moment, don't put pressure on yourself to make sense of it or feel better or get over it.

I found that as well as feeling awful at someone's horrified reaction, I felt just as awful if someone didn't react much, but for different reasons. And also I've read threads on here where people who haven't experienced abuse just don't get it, and their reactions to someone talking relationship difficulties (eg asking if it's abuse) are very different as a result. Your experiences are yours alone. Breathe, meditate, and focus on yourself for now.

Hello Silent, welcome and sorry you find yourself in this position. I never went to joint counselling with my ex, but it's generally assumed to be pointless if there is abuse - indeed, if you tell the Relate person that, they wont take you together. But I know others on here before have tried it, only to find that it really didn't help - and in fact sometimes made things more confused for them.

I felt just as awful if someone didn't react much, but for different reasons.

Yes - this is the reaction that makes you think 'oh no, I did imagine it, it wasn't bad enough to leave after all'

Your experiences are yours alone.

Totally agree. It doesn't have to be defined as anything really. If you feel bad in a relationship and it can't be fixed, then you should leave. You must.

Thanks for the welcome everyone. I've had one initial session with Relate and we're now on the official waiting list. I'm also on the NHs waiting list for individual counselling.

Can I ask you guys, how often do you have panic attacks? Or panic-like feelings?

i do feel lost . I stil don't know what to think.. your words means a lot. thankyou