Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Fairyfi

i'm too scared to go back to where i was when he followed me. Please anyone else? Has anyone else felt this way, be soo very scared and living like this long after its over?

I'm afraid I don't have any experience of this, I haven't had any stalking-type behaviour. What I did have was him being very threatening when we were married ('Don't mess with me, you will never win' etc) and so I was terrified after I left him. The feeling subsided after a few weeks, as I moved close to family and slowly realised he would never come near me as I now had some backup.

Can you let the police know that he was following you? It would count as harassment?

thank you Namechanger

this was an absolutely terrifying experience that i'm really struggling with. I wish I could go to the other ends of the earth, but he bought a house just around the corner from me!!

I fear that there's nothing to prove? I always struggling going there in case he did too, but its been a long time and i've not seen him, but his behaviour was yes decidedly stalky in the way he was looking about and swapping aisles, but it could just be my fearful interpretation of it, thats why i feel like i'm simply nuts!

I feel for you.. hearing the words you say about how your ex threatened you, and it seems real when someone else writes it, but it doesn't have any of that sense when i write it and it certainly feels somehow a lot less of a matter if its me.

The police have records of things and initially there was some support, but little action, well, none. I have lost any faith in the system sadly.

The best thing I could ever of done was get as far away from here as possible. To have DC that can't talk about it, and thats probably my fault too becuase I can't. Not that i should be telimg them what a shit he is, but having at least some dialogue about it. I would be as bad as him if i were to start telling them whats he's done to me, and so on.

Hello lovely Silvery hope you are doing well yeah, just felt like i had wandered onto the wrwong thread and that people here don't suffer any fear of their abusers, and thats just me and I should find another thread about this kind of stuff. Its shaken me up so badly, and i swing between i needing to fucking get a grip, and fucking hell if he could get away with it what would he actually do to me. He's trying to intimidate a couple of friends of mine that he doesn't know enough to actually speak to, the others that he does, he has and told them they need to tell me what to do because i'm such an abusive mother and, well perhaps you know the rest!

fi I wish I could respond but as I haven't left yet I have no idea... but it sounds a bit like PTSD to me. It really does, I know that feeling of anxiety and terror around every corner, and I agree that his behaviour is making it sound a bit like stalking.

Thanks all re: advice, Name I agree that ideally I should have something lined up. I did my CV a few weeks ago and got a good response from agencies, but I need to get my head in the right place and I feel like I should sort out my portfolio a bit to give myself more confidence, this will take a bit of time and at the moment I'm working full time all week then essentially working for him all weekend. So I've no time.

H has said that I need to ask to go to 3 days per week and to quit if they don't agree to that... that has pushed me over the edge and I've got the divorce papers ready to hand him. It's black and white no one should have the authority to tell me how/when etc I can work. Over the weekend he offered me loads of money to quit and move out to the weekend house altogether while we put the family house on the market.

It's all crazy. It's been so hard for me to keep my job, I've really sort of fought for it. But I'm feeling a bit 'abused' by my job, if you consider the situation, I've got no status (temporary contract for almost 2 years, cannot plan a future on that!) and I had a much better job 5 years ago when I stopped working at his insistence. Never thought it would turn out like this, with me fighting to keep a low-level job. H wants me to work for him, I cannot believe he can even think that. He's spotted a development opportunity he wants me to do with him, he needs these divorce papers so badly as I tell him that I want to plan my own life and do my own thing but he doesn't listen. He doesn't listen because he doesn't think I will go through with it.

Sorry for the rant, again!

fairyfi I doesn't sound mad at all to not want to return to a place where you became uncontrollably frightened. Would a cbt type approach help with this? Could you go with a friend and just spend time there reminding your brain that nothing bad is happening - that everything is okay?

sorry - I didn't mean to butt into a personal thread. I don't have any EA experience, but I have suffered that kind of panicked anxiety tied to locations which is why I posted. I could talk you through the process I used to neutralize the experience - if you would like to do that then PM me. No worries if not. to all you brave people.

So what i have read here is that this is my anxiety, my issues? me having PTSD is that right.

so that makes him not a threat, and i need to get a grip?

So no need to call the police (not that i would anyway, chocolate teapot springs to mind).

A case of he's ok and its all in my mind. Cos i'd far rather someone just tell me that than me going around wasting time and energy being scared of something thats not real.

BTW your post felt very validating of my experience Namechanger

Do I have panick tied to locations? I thought it was panick tied to him because now i know he's more likely to be there?

Please convince me i'm nuts and he is completely harmless and would never carry out any of his threats, he's a coward of a bully and would never do anything to hurt me or my DC despite everything he does pointing to the contrary.

Thank you thats good luck with your choices. Your problem sounds one of too many choices with two jobs and two houses and trying to carry it all, because he 'says so' or coerces you into feeling that way. Perhaps that might be the thing to attack, that, like many he has you so busy that you cannot sort it out. but your own job is something you can sort, its yours and your negotiations around that can make you the time you need to line your ducks up, as it sounds thats where you are getting to at the moment? The imminent divorce would i believe, make this all doable anyway, as houses (and your having to work 'for him' at the weekend) would become settled through it?

thanks icebeing although i've heard CBT is not the thing for trauma based anxiety, or PTSD. The trouble is i seem to have no doubt of his truly malicious intent because of incidents.

I used to wish he'd bash my head into the wall rather than have to suffer everything but that! I would sayto him, why don't you just hit me and get it over with, because watching it kind of aabout to happen right in my face was more terrorising.

sorry.. i think i'm just a frustration to everyone that this hasn't just gone away yet! yawn!!

CBT is certainly useful for channelling your mind into more useful responses to stimulation. It is certainly used in cases of trauma and even PTSD.

I did not mean to imply that you were not in real danger - it is just that it is not really about the actual stimulus (in this case see this sorry excuse for a person). If you are in real present danger, is being so terrified you cannot respond actually useful?

An end point for CBT might be that you do not feel frightened in places when there is no actual danger present (ie. the stalker is not there), and that your mind is not paralyzed with fear when you do encounter the stalker.

fairyfi whatever else, you should know that you absolutely deserve to be able to go shopping without experiencing stomach churning fear. You really do deserve more from life than that.

thank you yes.. this only happened when he was there. I've never done that unless he's actually been there. Normally i just keep an eye out because of our proximity.

I am aware in other places that he could be there and I have to be sure about where he could be. Its come as a result of him crossing boundaries even in public places, so thats been helpful to realise just now, that my experience of him (and i'm am just now recalling some of those out in public times) where he enjoys to cross over the boundaries and push them all the time.

My only experience is each time i get some strength and adopt a different approach he ups his threats. I think its worrying that he sees my refusing to engage with him as me laughing at him. is that just me that thinks this?

I feel for you.. hearing the words you say about how your ex threatened you, and it seems real when someone else writes it, but it doesn't have any of that sense when i write it and it certainly feels somehow a lot less of a matter if its me.

I know exactly what you mean by this. Please don't feel like you are less important than anyone else. I have spent the last 9 years thinking it doesn't matter if I am not happy, as long as H and his family are then that's a good enough reason to live like this. I'm beginning to realise that I am important too. You are too.

Fairy it really sounds like harassment to me? You might not have proof but please list down times, dates, locations and what he is doing. This might be useful in getting some sort of injunction or non-mol order out against him? He can't scare and intimidate you in this way, I'm pretty sure this falls within the definition of domestic abuse as a form of intimidation:

www.gov.uk/domestic-violence-and-abuse#domestic-violence-and-abuse-new-definition

Please make a note of the incidents you remember and make sure to note them if they happen again. You can't live like this, its so wrong and damaging.

Please also make a note of any threats he makes, whether verbal or physical. Add them to your list and gain some power back.

Fairy I had PTSD after H assaulted me, and I was terrified at home. I was hiding knives, scarves, anything he could hurt me with. I remember my heart jumping when I heard his footsteps going to the loo upstairs.

It's not a case of getting a grip, and getting over yourself. It's a very real fear and your brain is processing events. All that helped me was getting away from the situation and living elsewhere, I know you can't do this, but please see your GP or get some advise on this. Do NOT be hard on yourself or think you need to get a grip, you don't. You just need some support.

Fi, I'm sorry you felt like you were on the wrong thread. My own experience was of fairly mild abuse and my XH would be categorised as low-risk. I only hang around here so much so that I can try to support others.

I suspect your experience is with someone who's a higher risk - and you should definitely take your own feelings about it seriously. From what you say, I don't think it's all in your mind at all. I'm sorry you've lost confidence in the police. It's true what Lundy says: that after we leave, the system can abuse us further.

Would a call to WA help? They will validate your concerns and have a good idea of possible ways forward?

thank you again Name I couldn't access help because of court. You can access help because you feel safe, and thats because you are along way from him in every way, feeling safe.

i was told i could not have help for PTSD whilst unsafe. He has made it so that he is permanently here, on my doorstep so to speak, all the while making me feel unsafe.
Mostly i am veyr practical about him, and have come a veyr long way from the terrors that would regularly seize me at night, reliving past events, many of the flashbacks have faded life is far more settled, far more! Court, for all its horror (which is now another trauma i am having to get over), has at least meant i have a non-mol and there is only miniscule contact with DCand none allowed with me, none.

I realise that him following me has really wobbled me and heightened things for me. that whole thing of it being seen so clearly real for others when they speak of it, and not for me is holding me back? the believe instilled always that i'm making it up, that its all in my head, the complete denial of any wrongdoing on his part, all the gaslighting, even saying that he can't comment because he doesn't remember it happening, loads, that or the alchohol. So, like any EA that becomes so entrenched, and everything minimised and normalised. Police not doing anything backs that up. Mostly the things I experience cannot be pinned on him, like late night calls to my landline and mobile within mins,etc. Him seeming to know that we're all out, when he has no reason to think we're not at home but knowing hospitals and friends 'distraught at what could have happend to them'.

You do have to be stabbed or something i think for people that matter to sit up and doing anything, but then... like the sad dope that i am, i am also conflicted and don't want anything to happen to him!

See ... lost cause...

hey Charlotte - I think perhaps that is the case here isn't it, which is what i meant about having faux pas'd in posting here. That your experience is what this thread is for, EA. I don't know what mine is, apart from it should be over, long since, and the recovery is slow (but actually pretty huge in a short time really), and my main thing being where the fear/danger line belongs.

overlong post again sorry!

Hi Fi,
Just dropped in to say I am sorry the tosser is still making you unsafe - and to send unmumsnetty hugs - well as real hugs as I can send over the net

Aw, fi, I didn't at all mean that this thread is not for you. I meant to say (and failed miserably) that we all have very different experiences and there is room for us all on this thread.

Just that your experience sounds like it was extremely violent and, while it's good that that's relatively rare, it's not much help when you're looking for someone who has been through something similar.

I'm glad that you feel that things are better now than they were. I wish I could wave a magic wand and get rid of him for ever for you.

oh please! yes Charlotte,, magic wand me out of here and away from him. I don't wish anything to change for him or poke that hornets nest, but just to get far away myself.

No i know you didn't mean it wasn't for me! I know that, but its right what you're saying rather. I don't consider my relationship was extremely violent at all, I assumed i was going through the same as others here and felt suddenly perhaps not hence....

hugs gratefully received arth don't care in what form, lovely to see you.

have i mistaken the head shaking as something sinister that was just some fun all because i was just scared of him already?

Thank you fi for your comment re: too many choices...spot on as to where I am right now. I keep going in circles, I was going to rent a flat so I can keep to work routine, etc, no matter what H does when I tell him about divorce from a safe distance, but I got hung up on the detail of how I would look after the cat, then started thinking about better things (ie a long trip to a beach!) I could do with 10k than rent a grotty flat in our area, then last week when it fizzled out (due to offer being rejected) I got properly angry that I was 'letting' him drive me out of my house when he prefers the other house anyway... I need to break out of this circular thinking, I was addressing the job issue a few weeks ago, sorted out some portfolio things and did CV, but then started thinking that if I changed jobs without deaing with the H situation, how could I expect to make a good impression and put my all into it, like I want to. So.. better to quit job nicely, quit H not so nicely, and depending on his reaction (I'll need to get an occupation order if he kicks off) I can start putting my life together like I want to... I don't feel I can leave town at a moment's notice when I have to be at work every day. As I'm temporary contract, I can't really take time off as I have no working rights. Also I'm being 'talked down to' (I won't say bullied because I don't take it seriously enough!) by someone today, feeling a misogynist undercurrent and I have no time for it!

Name I totally agree with Charlotte, your response to being attacked was perfectly sane and any residual fear is perfectly normal, same for you too fi. I think if he is stalking you, even subtly, he's breaking the non-mol or at very least it is harassment. So document this and report it!

Thatsnotmynamereally could you just think of breaking free as you leaving him (even if its just temporarily in his eyes), and not divorce at this stage? One step at a time?

FairyFi I was only assaulted twice during our marriage. The second time was very violent - held by the neck and hit around the head.

When I tried to discuss my fear with him later he said he was surprised I was scared, he would have apologised if he had known how scared I was, but as it was he thought I was just angry and kept scowling at him so he kept away instead.

Name I've just been reading on your other thread-- please don't wait to get validation from him. There's obviously been things going on in the past and he has probably blanked them out of his head. So he WILL see it as not his fault, no matter what has or what will happen. The thing you can do is keep up the no-contact, and if possible, make it clear to everyone exactly what he did. You're not telling lies. And keep communication open but at arm's length with any of his family members who are supporting your efforts. What an utter w*nker he is, truly. Interesting that you got no response from the police earlier via Claire's law. Why?

I'm off to counselling session, quitting email remains in my 'drafts'!

And keep communication open but at arm's length with any of his family members who are supporting your efforts.

None of them are. They all say he did wrong but he deserves a second chance, and the kids should not be without their dad

I can't imagine what could have happened in his past to make him like this, but him, his sister and brother share very similar selfish traits, they can't see beyond their own needs and will never go out of their way to help others. It's odd and very unlike my family.

Thats I hope the counselling is useful, please do not send that email just yet, keep it tucked away in your drafts folder for now!