Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Evening all.

Name, nice to see you on here, I posted on your thread ages ago. Glad you are doing ok - but yes, echo everything everyone has said. He is not changing, and wont because he doesn't think he's done anything wrong so can't see what there really is to change. Hope the girls are settling at school ok?

Happybelle sweetheart. Am so for you being in that position. I was pregnant when my ex's abusive starting coming out (although there had been hints before), and making me feel bad about not wanting sex (or being too tired/too sore from my SPD/too upset because we'd had a massive row) was very much a part of that. Do you have a copy of the Lundy book yet?

fairyfi oh lovely, so sorry you had that experience and it's shaken you up so much. Given your PTSD I am not at all surprised. And no, it's not you, it's not all in your head. Even if he wasn't stalking you at that particular incident, there's no denying he's moved near you partly in order to unsettle you, and it's working. It's horrible to be checking around you every time you are out, I used to be like that when my ex still lived near me, it really was a relief when he moved away. I don't know what the answer is (although CBT sounds good?) but we're here for you.

fi it seems to me you have been minimising (part of) his violence, perhaps for good psychological reasons - what you describe sounds terrifying. Mine was "only" EA, VA and FA (lazy cocklodger who traded on my MH), so I can only imagine what it must have felt like.

its very late and ive only just had chance to get back here so just wanted to say than you all for your support in my moments of quake there, i will come back to read through properly tomorrow.. time ffor another beauty dreamless sleep doubting that very much

its lovely to see you all again, even if under dubious circumstances xx &

i can't even 'thank' you properly!

Ponygirlcurtis it's lovely to see you here too, although I am sorry that you are also a member of this club.

I can see H is not changing, it's a real disappointment and a total eye opener. How have I been married to that twat for so long?

My poor DC to be dragged through this massive upheaval through no fault of their own. They are doing really well. DC1 is 7, she in particular found it hard to settle at her new achool and was aching for her old friends. She seems much better now she has half a term of friendships and new experiences behind her.

Their family life is nicer as they are surrounded by nice respectful adults who speak to them politely. They are also spending lots of time with their many cousins in a close family network.

H and his family are just not like that. All claim they 'are busy with work and kids' and none of them will visit eg when children are born or birthdays.

They miss him lots though and talk about him as if he still part of the family. Not sure how I will deal with that when the time comes.

Hi ladies I'm back on here. Took a while for me to find you again but im here now

He is still part of the DC's family, Name. They will work out for themselves how to relate to him, depending partly if he seems interested in them. It's annoying when people seem to believe a man can't be a dad if he's separated from the mother. Nice way to put pressure on a brave woman for leaving!

That sounds great having your family around you and DD settling in at school. Such a contrast to what you had before for both of you, I should think!

Charlotte in a way I'm almost glad he is not that interested. I feel bad for them to have an absent dad, but he is very manipulative and selfish in the way he speaks to them its still always about him.

I would rather they learn that their needs are also important and not to put him first.

I understand that - I often wish that the DC's dad was as little interested in them now as he was when I lived with him. We could get on with our lives and ignore him most of the time: we bored him for the most part.

Now, however, he fights for all the time he feels entitled to... And then tells them to play by themselves and concentrates on work until it's time to feed them another huge, unhealthy tea and put them to bed late.

Of course, I don't know this is true, or how often this scenario plays out, because I'm not there to keep an eye on things.

I am worried about DC4 because DC3 said that she says she wants mummy all the time at daddy's house. I don't know if DC3 is exaggerating through irritation or if it's true. In any case, there's nothing I can do about it. I did ask him if he wanted to cut down contact a bit, being sure to massage his ego about how engaged he is with them... But, no, that's exactly the problem. He feels he's engaging with them because he picked them up from school, fed them and put them to bed. He thinks that's all that's involved. No wonder it's hardest on the youngest (she's only 5).

DC3 says DC4 had to get used to being at daddy's house. Those sound like daddy's words to me.

I wasn't expecting to write a "me" post there. Guess I needed to offload!

Now, however, he fights for all the time he feels entitled to... And then tells them to play by themselves and concentrates on work until it's time to feed them another huge, unhealthy tea and put them to bed late

Mine is the same. Except he has been taking them to his sisters house or his mums so he doesn't even have to make the dinner for them.

DC1 has been saying she doesn't want to live with me, she wants to live with daddy because he is going to buy a big house with a swimming pool.

I don't know why he says these things, its not true but he does it because he thinks its funny. Never mind that its confusing for the DC.

Glad you found the new thread, bitbybit - how are you doing?

Charlotte it's so hard to know how to proceed with that concern about him not actually doing anything with them, and youngest DC not really being that settled there. Would mediation help, or a family meeting about contact (although I know that could be really hard going for you, I don't think I could do it with DS2's dad). Try and remember that you can also just say - no, I don't think this is working for DD, she needs a different arrangement. The contact is for the children's benefit, not his.

Name I think he says things like that for exactly the same reason as he abused you - because it puts him in control and gets him what he wants (children saying 'yaaaaay daddy, of course we want to live with you if you've got those things'). His thoughts are not for you, or the kids, just about what his action get for himself. Can you say to him - stop saying these kinds of things to the kids, it's damaging for them - and let him know that it's all being noted and will the information given to your solicitor? That may all be for nothing, I know, but at least then you are registering your objection and letting him know it's not acceptable.

Sorry Charlotte, just read that back and my 'Try and remember' sounds very pompous and instructional! Sign that my day job in school is leaking out of the school grounds. Sorry! I know you know you can say that, but I just meant that it's hard to see the woods for the trees when you are in the middle of something and it's causing you stress and worry.

Name, that's so sad that he feels that he can 'play' with DC's feelings like that, promising things he has no intention of delivering. Unfortunately it sounds like another sign of a narcissist, with no feelings for anyone but himself.

Charlotte does DC3 feel that she has to look after DC4? That does seem a bit unfair! Can you mention it to him, ie that parenting should be more that just leaving them to get on with it, or would that be too raw? No doubt that he will get bored soon, I suppose you can leave the offer open, and at least they can look after each other.

Crossed posts, Pony!

Well, I've sent my 'resignation' email... now just have to follow through with quitting H. I'm playing with the idea of just forgetting the whole thing, just to think it through. But I've sent a CV through for a new job today. I'm chomping at the bit to get going. Lots going on, just need to deal with H and I'm still a coward about telling him.

thats am sending you strength to do what you know needs to be done. You can do it, you really can. Or ask someone else to deliver the letter to him on your behalf, you really don't have to do it yourself.

hi all

i've been reading back again and Name only assaulted twice? Were you taken seriously and anything done with police. Very good for you to be able to get so very far away and leave it behind!

Thanks Pony well that does then trigger PTSD, that incident I mean, because then i'm back mind swirling and bad nights and feeling emotional and more scared and on guard. Have your family connections with ex DC sorted themselves out ok now?

Charlotte oh gawd I wish for that too so much, the ignoring that stopped once it could be used as a way of showing off what an attentive father and abusive twunt of an ex he is. Far rather just wander off and be left alone and ignored like we'd all got use to

Why i can't i process words like 'extremely violent'??

I spoke to someone today about the wrapped fast head shake, I could see that she was shocked and I wished i hadn't said anything, but why oh why don't i get it? This leads me to thinkng that there is something wrong with me to not recognise this for what it is. Also then, as you so wisely [as always] Silvery say, perhaps it was/is necessary, as its really not a pleasant ordinary kind of train of thought that someone wants in their mind, or potentially know what kind of depth of depravity they could be caught up in.

I know that i blocked other stuff, but when the people who should know better tell me its normal for fathers to shout in their DCs faces so loud that nothing else can be heard, or perhaps to simply not believe that is what was going on, and for the DC to turn up in the middle of such an incident, crying, stop it Daddy.

I've rambled on enough again.

Thats great news, you sound all action stations! and like you want it all wrapped up by the end of the week. make sure you have 'safety' at the forefront of your mind though too. I mean like if you opt for delivering the papers (which should be done and witnessed by someone else), and staying in your house when thats done... do get locks changed and so on. Its important maybe to recognise that once a couple is separated its no longer appropriate for either to just expect to be in the other's home again, unless clearly invited in!! loads of strength for your next step. There's lots here to support you through the getting through this next bit.

thats, that's great that you're moving forward, even though you're not feeling totally sure of yourself.

pony - oh, don't worry about how that came across, I was just nodding as I read it because I had had that thought mere hours earlier, for the first time, so it was great to get affirmation that it was a plausible approach!

fi, I did think as I typed those words that they might shock you. That's totally normal, that you have minimised it - it's a coping strategy, and as you say, it doesn't help if people who should know better are unhelpfully minimising it, too. I have read threads on here where people have said how unbelievably terrible the abuse sounds, worst they've read about, and I've been thinking it's not really clear-cut abuse at all!

If that one incident had come out of nowhere, that's one thing, but with years of headfucking, we don't trust our own judgement, we don't feel important enough to consider our reactions in any case, we rely on his perceptions because he's so sure of himself, so what else makes anything remotely approaching sense?

It takes a long time to undo all those beliefs we develop. I think it could well take as long to undo all the damage as it too for the damage to be done.

i have done something i hadn't felt able to do before you all said your piece here, and i resented hearing tbh, because my dial is set to 'i'm not reporting anything any more' - especially when everything is so easy [or so it seems] to put down to over-sensitivity, over-thinking things, or making much out of nothing type attitudes.

i did, but now i'm ridiculously scared that its all out of control because they want to send someone round and i've said 'noooooooo' - i can't face any more police so i've told them noone is coming round here, and i'm not going to see anyone. too painful and pointless.

and in the same breath, i can't see how this is violent and feel stupid having mentioned it... hoping for some sleep now ... oh shit what've i done.

Don't worry about it for the time being (easy to say!!), try and get some sleep. Or cuddle a pet?

I am cleaning the ensuite, most of my stuff has been packed (by a packer, get me!) and I move tomorrow. Hope I can take my own advice re sleep...

fairyfi can you have someone come and be with you when police come over?

I remember being hysterically scared when the police came to see me, I begged them not to come. In the end I called my siblings 150 miles away and told them everything about the assault. They came and sat with me whilst I gave a statement etc.
It was very scary knowing they were going to interview H and he would know what I had done/said. But what I couldn't see (and probably you too) is that you have done nothing wrong. He has. Nobody outside of the relationship would blame you for going to the police, he is the bad guy and not you).

For me it turned out to be the best thing I did because although he lied about his actions being in self-defence and wasn't charged, it forced me to have told my siblings what was happening and was the very first step towards me leaving.

I know you have left him already but I hope by getting the police involved you have a window to distance yourself from him further. Please call them whenever there is an incident. You need some aupport you can't go through this alone.

Silvery a packer you say?!

I was denied a packer when moving house at 32weeks pregnant as H didn't want to spend the money. I hauled boxes and cleaned all day. At the end of the day he shouted at me for not degreasing the cooker hood properly before we left.

So I am very jealous/impressed at your packers, it must be lovely to watch someone else take the pressure off you. It's like a sign of the fabulous life you now live! Enjoy!

Charlotte DC3 says DC4 had to get used to being at daddy's house. Those sound like daddy's words to me.

YY. DC1 says I know you left daddy because of the fight but it will never happen again daddy is better now so can we just live together now.

These men are totally heartless using the children for their own means with no regard to how it is affecting them.

Why and how on earth do they end up so self-centred? What is his family like?
We all have our moments of leaa than perfect behaviour. But I feel like there has to be a reason someone would be just a consistent arse over the years. I'm looking at his parents and extended family for clues.

Where do you think your H gets it from?

Sorry please ignore me if I am being nosy.

The pollice are not coming Name. I've told them i'm not going to see or talk to anyone about this. I only called because they would know whether this was actually a thing or not. that sounds like i don't believe you, but i think it means a) denial on my part or b) everyone's probably lying to me c) it just comes across worse than it actually was. you have lovely siblings *Name. One of mine tried to strangle me and well, effed up family the more out of it the better! Any one of their involvement would just magnify things and they would likely blame me for it all anyway.

Thank you Silvery yes indeed, go you with your packer, and may your moving day go like an absolutely seamless dream I hope you have a gottle of wine for when to get to sit down at the other end of it tonight? hope you slept, me.. very little, feel shattered today. Pets a bit threadbare like well worn teddies!

Thank you for sharing your experience Name it actually helped to know someone else was hysterically scared of the police coming. I keep running your comment about what others think through my head and i think its more to do with it being so weird me actually not seeing it the same as everyone else so why act. If you don't believe something to be so bad.. police is very alarmist and ott. At this point i'm not understanding what all the fuss is about. (this after calling WA and being told its very serious, and i listened for about as long as i could manage and left the call).

I think the same Charlotte with that wonderful outsider perspective, like although they don't like it there they are told its just too bad, and yours Name is messing with his DCs heads, getting them to minimise and rewrite history . Here, DC say its all 'daddy's new gfs fault' - certainly not my words ...

Hope the move goes well, Silvery. Happy new house!

Where does STBXH get the selfishness etc from? Good question and one I don't bother too much with these days. It had fortunately become irrelevant to me. But thinking back to when I used to mull over it pretty often, I think he had a difficult childhood in some ways, though it wouldn't have looked like it to outsiders. I think he was never anyone's top priority, so on one hand he now always puts his needs first and otoh if someone other than family asks for a favour, he will go to the ends of the earth. In his family, everyone supported the father, and it was that sort of male-centric culture, too. So that's his normal.

Still, his sisters seem to be nice enough, and it's his choice not to get therapy for the worse experiences he had. So I don't excuse him his behaviour, even if I can see where it's come from. I'm sure you're the same.

What did the police say about if it was a "thing", fi? Well done for reporting, btw.