Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I'd never thought about the good life like that, you're right! Everyone else loved him as well just like my fw.

thatsnotmyname we spent about a month looking at family homes and I was starting to get sucked back in. And like you, it was STBXH's dream of countryside living whilst I'm much more of a city person. I could see how it would be lovely to live there and great for DC but then, as we talked about the detail, I realised actually it was just going to be the same.

The different house wasn't going to change anything. He'd still dominate everything. He'd still be rude to any of my guests. He'd still treat me like some third-rate member of the family (behind him and DC).

I also realised the move wasn't about 'us'. It wasn't because I've always hated living in 'his' house. It wasn't because DC want a garden. It wasn't so we could try to have a new start and a better family dynamic. It was because he wanted to be able to invite his business partners to stay when they were in the UK.

I realised I'd be just as miserable but surrounded by fields instead, and I'd feel I had to stay for at least another year because of the expectation tied up in the move.

That revelation co-incided with starting to read Lundy's 'Should I Stay?' And realising how much I have given up.

I also completely agree with you about the lack of strong female role models. I was trying to think just yesterday of a strong woman in a healthy relationship in any of the books I read as a child or any of the TV I watched. I couldn't think of one. . .I could think of strong single women but really struggled to think of a programme that lauded a healthy relationship. The classics are full of paternalistic dynamics; the soaps are full of drama and, as you say, the classic comedies are usually long-suffering women 'mothering' their hare-brained DHs.

thats I don't think it has anything at all to do with courage, it's to do with you being ground down by him and him inducing such spaghetti head and fog that you can't think or see clearly. When you are away from him and out of contact (eg when you were in America, when you are apart from him) then you see clearer. Can you go away by yourself somewhere for a week?

As for strong female role models, I have always been a Buffy fan. And in real life women like JK Rowling. I try to channel them.

After reading all the tributes I think Cilla Black was a pretty amazing role model. Working mother in a misogynistic industry, great relationship.

Well ladies, after the STFU incident on Friday my delightful fw had another go on Saturday and he did the following classic manoeuvres. He denied he'd said it many times, disturbed my sleep as much as possible and then when he demanded a cuddle (cuddle, code for sex) I said no, he said but what if I want one? I suggested that sex without consent was rape. He then exploded saying I'd called him a rapist.

Now dear God we are into the being lovely phase.

I may not be able to leave yet but my god I am not marrying this twat.

Winnie it's interesting that you had the same experience re: family homes. !! I feel I need to go through with the 'looking' as it proves to me that even the most idyllic of houses doesn't pass the 'could I live there with him' test. Nope. No way! Sadly I yearn otherwise for these lovely homes which look all happy and cosy, I know I'll have my own place one day but it would be so easy now to just go along with it right now, so I need to get away, pony you're so right, I've known for ages I need to get some distance, but TBH selling the 'toxic' family home is good for my mind, as he thought I'd fight for the house but I haven't, so he's thinking I'm being nice and agreeable but really I'm thinking that when the house is sold for x I will have 1/2 x to buy my own place with. He thinks he will have x to spend as he likes. Not gonna happen! My solicitor says that we can ask the conveyancers to hold the money, if it isn't agreed when the house is sold.

Beelz do you not think that they don't 'hear' themselves when they are shouting/being horrible... it sounds like he is confirming to you who he really is!

Sadly I still think that H has no idea how he comes across. If I am anything other than quiet-spoken and agreeable around him, he accuses me of shouting. And if I say his words (ie STFU) right back to him his go-to response is 'stop being rude'... but truly, I am so far past this, so over it. I am just 'meh' about everything! But I know better than to react or rise to the bait, as he just escalates if I do.

He claims he can't stop himself from saying it.

omg Beelz not possible to say anything is it! such a classic response from him 'what are you saying!!!' how very dare you call him a rapist hey?!!!
pah!

I am not marrying the twat ... well said

Sorry to hear your struggles Thats keep that goal in mind though, its still there. you can do this...

Oh, Lord, how familiar all this seems. Well, I finally screwed up everything I had (or used to have) and had the this is it conversation a week ago. He's away for ten days now so that worked out well; and although assailed by doubts and panics and worries for the first seven days, I'm very slowly now starting to see through the fog...getting tiny occasional flashes of "where the f*ck have I been all this time"... it is truly extraordinary how much you normalise a completely unacceptable situation. So: it IS possible; I can see faint shadows of the old me fleeting through the room, just outside my vision, so I know I'm here somewhere...just waiting to come barreling back into the room with all the old vigour and noise and confidence I used to have. And a big grin. So hang on in there, you lot - don't give up now. Being on here is about at least 60% of the fight; you're over half way there. I know I've still got a way to go (he's due back next week, and then we have to co-habit while he finds somewhere else) but I am On My Way Out. :) My God, once you get past the panic, it doesn't half feel amazing. :) to the lot of you - and lots of cake! :)

melb well done - it's great that you are starting to glimpse your old self

I completely relate to your comment about normalising an unacceptable situation. It was only when working through 'Should I stay . . .' that I realised how much I'd given up and how much abusive behaviour I'd been normalising.

STBXH has been working away and calling every day with some sort of crisis for me to resolve. It's odd that he always seems to generate a steady stream of dramas that I'm supposed to respond to. In the past, I would have become embroiled in them and worried about how to resolve them. Now I'm just meh

It's taken me a long time to realise that I was the only person having sleepless nights about whatever crisis he had unfolding. I'm starting to wonder if that has always been the point of them ie he creates a massive issue that makes me feel unsettled/stressed and as though I need to fix it then he gets merrily on with his life.

I smiled reading your post melb - that feeling of getting yourself back is a strong one. Well done for taking the leap, hopefully you can hold onto that feeling when he returns and tries to get inside your head again. It's almost inevitable that he will to some extent - I doubt he'll just go quietly - but keep posting, that helps shine a light through the fog too.

I think your revelation about it being the whole point of the dramas is right Winnie. Do you need to take his daily-drama phone calls? Can you just say 'this doesn't concern me, I need to go, oh there goes the door/phone/oven/timer on my 'fucks-to-give-ometer', byeeeee!'

There is nothing nicer than coming home to your own home thats, with no FW to worry about or to have to listen to. Its bliss . Whatever you do, don't buy another place with him, use that end point as a starting point for a new life for you.

Since my freedom started I've noticed how much you have to force yourself into this narrow minded life FWs make for you. I'm rediscovering things I'd forgotten for years. For the first time my house is full of laughter (me and DC have a blast without miserable FW dragging us down).

I think the key thing for you winnie is our old friend detachment. It's his problem, not yours.

Loving the 'timer on my 'fucks-to-give-ometer' It's a bit of a bind because we do still have some contracts that we're both working on so I sort of do need to take his calls.

Admittedly when he started today, I cut the call short and texted him instead, telling him to speak to someone who gives a toss else about it. He was very apologetic about his earlier attitude

Meh, I can feel him starting to try to suck me back in again. Two of the flats I liked have fallen through so I feel a bit as though I'm back to the drawing board, but I made a list of other places to call and I'm going to try to get an appointment with a mortgage broker at the start of the week to see if I can possibly buy instead of renting. Then I'm going to try to have a holiday before DS goes back to school. It means any move is looking more like Sept than Aug but que sera sera. I just need to try to keep the momentum going.

Lovely post nini - and I totally agree. You discover how narrow life had become because you were so focused on them, just them and not riling them etc. Glad that you and DD have enjoyed some rediscovering of how life can be. They really are miserable feckers, aren't they! I am off to see my DSDs tomorrow, they've just been on holiday with their dad for 10 days, fully expecting to hear how miserable and grumpy he was just like last year. It takes a special kind of person to be determinedly miserable while on a family holiday in the sun!

'What's fur ye'll no go by ye' Winnie, as we say up here. You will find something - and remember it's just temporary, it's breathing space. Detach, detach, detach. He'll likely get the hump when his hoovering attempts fail so smiling and nodding instead of actually engaging with him will probably be your best bet.

hoping for that here too pony - i recall that saying of yours from a way back

not much to say here but and to all, and maybe

I'd love some - thanks fairyfi
Meh, he's been really grumpy and gaslight-y today. But I am working on refinding my centre (courtesy of Lundy) so am trying to rise above it all.

Keep Lundy handy, Winnie, and just keep nodding and smiling while thinking 'FOTTFSOFAWYGTFOSM'.

I'm really sorry, I'm jumping in at the end of this thread without reading the whole thing but I'm feeling really down tonight.

I've spent the past several months working up the courage to leave my EA husband. I've been feeling glimmers of hope and excitement lately finally moving on from emotionally treading water to making some concrete plans and starting to research big steps like moving out into my own flat.

This Sunday he looked at my phone records and looked in my bag at papers I had in there. Stupid stupid stupid of me not to be more careful but it never even occurred to me he would do these things. So he pieced together that I've been making plans behind his back and now he is threatening to move out with our 3yo DD.

I have a long commute to another city so I can't do nursery run at present, so if he moves out I am stuck just seeing her on weekends. Today a solicitor confirmed my fear that a court (if it came to court) would probably decide in favour of husband as he is currently the "primary carer" even though I spend as much time as I can with my little girl and I am the one who comforts her at night when she wakes up :-( I wouldn't mind doing shared parenting and of course I'd LOVE to not have to live with him anymore but I can't face seeing her on weekends only :-( but he's got me over a barrel right now. I hate this so much.

Box does he work? I'm surprised that the starting point wouldn't be a shared care 50/50 split? I can't offer anything constructive but I think it's really unfair if you are penalised for being the main breadwinner! Can you speak to a different solicitor?

Don't let him know what you're thinking or planning, he will use it against you, no doubt.

box so sorry to hear of your situation (and don't worry at all about jumping in, just go for it). I'd second thats suggestion of getting another solicitor opinion, maybe another free session with someone who understands domestic abuse in all its various forms. Have you been in touch with WA? They can also help, with advise, putting you in touch with local solicitors who are more knowledgable in DA, plus general support.

This solicitor was a recommendation from local WA unfortunately. We both work fulltime and earn about the same amount. If I worked locally I'm sure I could get a 50/50 split, it's just the logistics of having a long commute (and no flexible working allowed at my job) and not being able to do nursery run because of the hours. But I will try a different solicitor.

thanks to both of you. Just had a talk with him and he is completely inflexible on "divorce ruins childrens' lives," so much anger about his own childhood experience but if I try to suggest that other viewpoints are valid I'm just being "patronising."

Remember to receive all info from your H with the caveat that he is saying whatever serves him best. He is not thinking about your welfarw, and most certainly not the kids. It suits him to keep things as they are.

Yes, do check with another solicitor. Even if they stay the same, it seems to be a standard EA thing to claim they'll go for residency. Few actually do though.

Say the same, not stay the same. Blinking autocorrect.

box he's still trying to control you and using your DD as it's the most effective threat he has. From a practical pov, is there any other childcare you could use so that even if you couldn't do the nursery run personally, someone else could collect her for you and then you could still try for 50/50 ?

I was thrown a curveball today as STBXH announced he'll move out for the next few months to give me space to find somewhere else. DS was very upset about the prospect of him being away for even a week. It is sensible as it gives me more time to put alternatives in place but I feel a bit unsettled by it. Plus it absolves him from all childcare and lets him opt out of DS' life. But, on the whole, I think it is a good thing.

I have just read my post from 2 years ago. How can I be so stupid? I was about to phone WA, but then thought who is going to listen to me at 3 am, they would rather sleep. Plus the line is called domestic violence and I'm so scared of that term. I don't want to be a victim of dv. Maybe that is why I'm pretending that this is not happening, and it is not that bad.
Well, I'm 14 weeks pregnant now with my third DC and I'm sleeping on the floor. We moved to a new town just over a week ago. We don't have a bed yet, but there is a nice mattress. My husband decided that the mattress is not for me since I'm not begging him to give me a chance after we had an argument. It did not break me when he took it, what broke my hart was my daughter's offer. She said 'Mummy, daddy took the bed, but you can sleep with me, because I love you.' We had an argument on Tuesday, and it is ongoing since. The argument was so ridiculous - he asked me how many stains our children made on the carpet, I said 'just this one', so he asked me again 'how many?', and I said 'just this one'. Well, it wasn't the right answer, so I was shouted at, told that I don't respect him, that he will make my life miserable etc. Now I can see his nastiness is coming out again as he knows that I have no money, not a single person to turn to in the new place, and I'm pregnant. Where will I go? I'm at his mercy, but he cannot stand the fact that I do not react to his nastiness. Yes, I'm broken, I don't want to go to shelter with my little ones, and I cannot see any way of getting accommodation, yes, I wish I was dead, but I no longer fear him, and I keep my head high. He talks to himself, so I can hear it - calls me an idiot, fool (well, he is right- I wouldn't be where I am if I wasn't a fool), bad mother (even though the only thing he does is feeding them biscuits and ocassionally taking them to a playground), that I have no aim in life, that I'm all about money (never had access to any) etc. I just ignore him. And he is so charming with people, nobody would believe me. The sweetest man you can meet. He is very skilful with words, can turn conversation to his advantage - no longer with me, because I know his games, but very much so with new people and his friends. He has a job that makes him look trustworthy. He is laughing in my face, because I'm unemployed housewife, forgetting that he made me one.
Why do I even write this? I don't know.