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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

784 replies

CharlotteCollins · 21/04/2015 15:54

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

OP posts:
thegreysheep · 09/06/2015 20:54

Hmmm, that seems daunting alright. But try have a chat to citizens advice anyway to see if you have options, people do manage so maybe there is a way. Would be tough but living in this situation must be awful for you and kids. Even if you saw what options are a bit down the line, might give you a chink of hope.

thegreysheep · 09/06/2015 20:58

Madi, he treats you and the kids because he wants to but also because he thinks he can as he has you over a barrel, or so it seems. By looking into your options at least you take some of the power back :)

MadiSontRoy45 · 09/06/2015 22:31

Ye he knows I can't leave at moment so likes make our life hell in the meantime I need to just keep looking forward .

thatsnotmynamereally · 10/06/2015 07:47

Madi I think citizens advice is a good idea just so you can find out what your options are. On the face of it, it sounds bitterly frustrating and worrying that the DCs are drawn into it.

Can you try to detach emotionally? So the silent treatment, etc, won't be as hard. If you don't expect anything you won't be disappointed when nothing happens. I've got to the point where the constant insults just roll off, I just acknowledge them and move on.

I'm sorry to admit that I got quite violent on Sunday night...when he got all snarky because I hadn't presented his takeaway meal soup (v nice soup) in a bowl that he liked, and it went downhill from there (I ate some prawn crackers out of the bag rather than decanting them first into a display dish, etc etc it was an expensive takeaway that I hadn't wanted and was ending up being more work for me than cooking a flipping roast dinner) I'm admitting this here to remind myself, obviously there's a big backstory, I hadn't wanted to be there at all and had in fact made other plans but he insisted I cancelled, we'd had a 'scene' at a car boot sale earlier (I was selling with a friend but he had issues with what I was/wasn't selling, friend was appalled at the way he treated me) but it surely doesn't excuse my lunging at him and tearing his shirt until the buttons came off... I'm sad with the memory now... Anyway, I stayed out at the other house while he came back to London, then yesterday he went there and now I'm back here, never mind the logistics but I'm utterly fine when without him. I don't know if he realises that I can't live with him, I just said I needed to be away from him. I will see how it goes today, but I've got a new solicitors letter to send, restating my position as intending to divorce.

CharlotteCollins · 10/06/2015 19:42

Why are you changing position about divorce, thats? Did you put a stop to it? Or are you doing it now?

Why are you still letting him tell you what to do? Sad

OP posts:
ponygirlcurtis · 10/06/2015 20:26

thats he is pushing you to beyond your limits now, he is breaking you. You cannot let that happen. You need to be living separately from him, it's essential for your mental health that he is outside of the life you lead from now in, not still a part of it. It will take more than just solicitor's letters, that won't work if you are still living together - you need to step away from him altogether.

Be strong lovely. You can do this. Keep posting - you seem to waver more when you don't post regularly.

CharlotteCollins · 10/06/2015 21:43

I think the difficulty with the stage you're at is that as well as one life ending, another one is beginning. And the new life is so alien to us, that it's hard to know where or how to begin. It's like two major changes at once. Not only are we trying to break old patterns of responding to orders, not trusting our own judgement, deferring to him, keeping the peace, but we also have to do the void with something. And what? I sat and brooded in my new house for weeks before I could begin to think about what to do next.

You are going to need a lot of focus on the new life to get through this. And the help of RL friends (not DCs)... Do you have any who could help?

OP posts:
thatsnotmynamereally · 11/06/2015 06:19

Thanks pony and charlotte. I'm trying to think of it as if I've now 'snapped' and that is clearly the end, unfortunately I've just woken up to see he's sent emails saying that he's lonely and I've deserted him... And when I think about it I worry how I'll mange for money without him, my job isn't secure, etc etc. I think perhaps my biggest problem is I've been pretty selfish staying with him as the problems have been there since forever. But I've stayed for the security. Now I'm enjoying living apart from him but its like I want to have my cake and eat it too.

Clearly he seems to not want divorce but clearly I've offered him every option to see a counsellor by himself or together (relieved in a way that he hasn't taken it up) and he thinks the situation could be solved by keeping a calendar with loads of activities written in...but this has proved to be another controlling device, for example he wrote in various things for next week, and I'm supposed to fall in line, organise it, take time off work etc, of course I'm not going to.

thatsnotmynamereally · 11/06/2015 06:29

Charlotte thanks for sharing, I hadn't thought of you sitting and brooding in your new house, I think that's exactly th point I cannot imagine myself at!

I did discuss this with my counsellor, she asks me if I can imagine myself living without him... I don't know if I can, really: I was asking myself last night, when he's out of the picture, what excuse am I going to have to blame general crapness of everything on? Right now it's easy, it's 'poor me , I am stuck in a bad relationship' etc. it's another type of security, I think!

But then again, maybe without him there to point out every crap thing, it might actually be great!?

CharlotteCollins · 11/06/2015 21:52

Sometimes crapness is just "normal life crapness", and that's OK. I did ride on a big high for months (so many wonderful things to enjoy, like no more of his clutter, children I could spend time with without being dragged away to serve the master, a bed to myself, no clothes left on the floor -the list goes on, just so many things!).

But then, it must've helped having the general busy-ness of children, the routine of the school run and people checking in with me, asking how I was and so on.

People can be vital in this: people here were really happy I'd moved into the village because it meant the children would be nearer for theirs to play with... So there was a buzz. I can see how it's harder for you... Which is probably not a helpful or motivating thing to say!

As for money, have you done the sums? You still probably be fine. Even if things are a bit tight, at least it'll be you making the decisions. You have security now, maybe, but do you really have money of your own that you can spend how you like?

Cheering you on...

OP posts:
MadiSontRoy45 · 11/06/2015 22:53

I've been there thats ive lost the plot once or twice and got physical cos couldn't take anymore of him only I wouldn't go to prison for him and Leave my kids **hes been out drinking last two days haven't seen him baby not well was at doctors with her yesterday doctor took my Bp I'm on Bp medication since I moved in this house!my pulse was very high she said your under a lot of stress and anxiety she knows bits bout him I've told her.

fairyfi · 11/06/2015 23:14

I've left. I can't hack it anymore. I don't know now what will happen from one day to the next, but at least I can sleep in peace at night and not be watching my back all day

CharlotteCollins · 12/06/2015 09:13

The doctor knowing could help with legal aid if that's available where you are, Madi.

Fi, wishing you strength and good fortune. What you say you have now: that is worth so much when you haven't had that safety before. Now you have the foundations for a better life for you and DC. Flowers

How are the DC?

OP posts:
thatsnotmynamereally · 12/06/2015 13:11

fi hoping all OK Flowers

Madi doctor's acknowledgement is a very good idea, I know my GPs have been extremely helpful...and I've got a long record of issues to refer back to if required. Mine list started, by the way, pre MN, with a phone consultation about H's anger towards me and issues, and me thinking it was possibly a brain tumour if only and after ruling that out the doctor pointed me towards a local branch of WA... my goodness, that was a loooong time ago and I've just remembered! If you want to frame it like that, you can always say you're concerned about H's selfishness/rudeness/whatever and that he might have a 'problem', ie take the focus away from you having the problem. At least it gets documented.

ninilegsintheair · 12/06/2015 16:02

Thanks for you Fi. I hope you're ok.

thats I agree with earlier posts, you really need to get away from him. From what I've read here he's ramping up the pressure on you to get you to crumble, and you can't let him do that. No matter how tricky life is, it's better than this current life (and I can say that confidently now I'm on the other side). Can you move out? Or would he? Physical space might give you the head space you need to see it through.

The stress these FWs cause is unbelievable - I'm now seeing my dentist as the stress of the last few months is affecting my teeth if you can believe that!

I'm settling well in the new place but DD is still very unsettled. I'm struggling to explain to her why things are this way now and when she gets upset the 'I miss daddy' cries start which just makes it harder. Sad

CharlotteCollins · 12/06/2015 19:32

Aw, poor wee lass. I used to offer phoning Daddy when they were upset, but I know that wouldn't work for a lot of people. Do you distract by encouraging her to draw a picture or make something for him?

OP posts:
ninilegsintheair · 12/06/2015 22:15

I tried that Charlotte but it only works for a little bit. She gets upset most when she's really tired and nothing really seems to calm her down. The 'I want to have one house with Mummy and Daddy' cries are the worst. Sad

summerflower · 13/06/2015 05:25

Hi ladies,

I posted here a couple of years ago under various names. I am using this one as you might recognise it, but it seems like putting on old clothes which don't suit me any more so I will go back to my usual name hereafter. I had a succession of flowery names before settling on something which is me now. I hope no-one minds me crashing the thread. I have insomnia and I have kind of waffled a bit below in my tiredness.

pony told me you were now in your own place, nini. I know it has taken you a long time to reach that point and you have put up with a lot, so well done for reaching that pointFlowers.

The thing which struck me when I left was that leaving is a process, not an event. When you are thinking about leaving, you think that will be it, you will be able to breathe again, you will get your life back. And for me, I read my Lundy and the warnings of things escalating and still thought I would be dealing with a reasonable person who would let me go. Hmm at my naivety.

I am not going into what happened after I left, looking back it was literally fighting my way out and uncovering/dealing with layer after layer of murk. There was no clean and fresh air, at least not consistently; there was very little of myself left. There were very fundamental questions about who 'myself' was, that had ignored all the red flags waving, and tried to the point of becoming ill to make that marriage work. And that 'myself' does not exist any more and there is no easy and ready-made new self to put in its place.

Lack of an identity, losing the markers of who you thought you were is scary. But it is also an opportunity. We only get one life. Things like being able to eat what you want, to feel comfortable in your own space, to choose your own clothes, that is before you get on to not having more overt abuse, matter.

How do you create a new 'myself'? Small things - listen to music you choose; eat what you choose; discover clothes and styles again; remember things you used to enjoy; find new things to enjoy. Breathe. And draw boundaries to protect those freedoms and your emotional and physical space, with legal help if necessary.

To fi, what about never recovering? I have a range of mental health issues related to my childhood and marriage. I don't think they will quickly go away. Insomnia is one symptom. But the circumstances in which I acknowledge and deal with the issues have changed, albeit slowly. I think, like leaving, recovery is a process and it never stops. I am not the person any more who thinks people are inherently good and if I try just one more thing, it will all be fine. Nor do I want to be hyper vigilant about every situation I find myself in (which to a large extent I still am). I want to be comfortable with myself, know what makes me uncomfortable and be able to say f*ck that for a laugh as diplomatically or forcefully as needed.

Charlotte, I think it has taken me this long to get to the what next stage!

Finally, nini, I think all you can do is hug your DD, acknowledge her distress and say I know, sweetie/honey/whatever term of affection you use, and say the usual Mummy and Daddy both still love you, we don't want to make you sad, but sometimes Mummies and Daddies do live apart and you will help her adjust to it. It is good that she is expressing these emotions though hard to hear. But there is nothing you can say beyond that - it is about helping her navigate a different set of circumstances now.

summerflower · 13/06/2015 05:35

thats, one thing I did realise about my ex after I left was the constant stream of negativity coming out his mouth and looking back, the fact that he never laughed spontaneously or made a joke. Life can be crap, yes, but it can also be funny and fun. Imagine having an emotional register set to negative all the time- how tiring that is. Then imagine a whole range of emotions including positive ones instead. That was, looking back, the choice.

I am sorry not to post for newer posters - I wish you well in getting where you want to beFlowers.

lots of love and best wishes to you all. There are many people from here I think of, and I am massively grateful for the advice and support I received. Flowers

fairyfi · 13/06/2015 06:41

I might have to revise what I said about sleeping in peace at night as sleep hasn't been great, but at least i know he's no idea where we are.

Maybe in some days things will be a bit calmer from the place i got to that meant it was so bad i felt i had to do this.

nothing much to offer to others right now i'm afraid, but i have read a little and send Flowers to you all too, for your own situations, thank you Smile

I do remember a 'flowers' theme name,but can't remember exactly but anywya, wlecome back and that thing about 'set to negative all teh time', completely what i was accused of, and yet, there had to be a lot of positivity there to keepgoing right? to hop ethat things would be better that this somehow wasn't real and wasn't going to carry on and yes, inhererent goodin people pile of shite and leaving has come with its fair share of issues, not least laying on a bed and thinking the car would be more comfortable to sleep in!!!

fairyfi · 13/06/2015 07:25

i did find it striking reading your post Nini about your DD and her coming to terms. I found the routine and consistency and constancy the bestthings to ride the storm for DC. They become very emotionally dependent upon everything else remaining the same and didn't cope well if any other aspects of their lives changed, like a regular meet up, or change of teachers, etc. because of being tiptoeing around and not really speaking when in the relationship, that is something they struggled with the speaking out so its really good (I know that sounds nuts maybe?) that your DD is making very clear what her feelings her, and i know tha tyou will really suport her in every way around this time of upheaval forher. it will settle as the weeks go by.

CharlotteCollins · 14/06/2015 08:31

Nice to hear from you, flowers. Your posts are always very eloquent and incisive. Flowers

OP posts:
TopOfTheCliff · 14/06/2015 09:00

Hi Flowers I remember you and am glad things are going well for you. I used to post with House names after leaving my FW. Four years later my life is calm and happy and full of fun.

Last week I staged an intervention which brought it all back. A friend confided she was being abused, kept virtual prisoner denied food and money and injured for resisting. So DP and I swooped in and extracted her (while he was out) with all her belongings and took her to our home. It has been lovely helping her find herself, organise a car and a place to go, and reunite with her DC who had cut her off while she was with the abuser. Yesterday she left for a new life and nobody except DP knows that I helped her. Talking to her about our shared experience brought back some disturbing memories but contrast all the more with my peaceful happy new life. I'm glad I could be her friend when she needed me.

ninilegsintheair · 14/06/2015 09:06

I recognise you flowers, good to see you here again. I hope life is treating you well Smile Thanks You're totally right that leaving is a process, even when you're out physically it must take longer emotionally. I'm completely detached from FW but he still tries to draw me in.

And you're right Fi, at least DD is happy to speak up about how she feels. I should see that as positive. Even if she is a little too opinionated at times Wink.

Out of the blue I've been sent a draft divorce petition from his solicitors. A bit of a surprise since we agreed on a 2 year separation. And apparently I've already agreed to pay 50% of the costs. Erm, no I havnt. Hmm

ninilegsintheair · 14/06/2015 09:08

Just read your post cliff. Bless you and your DP for your intervention for your friend. What a fantastic thing to do. I hope your friend is doing ok. Thanks