Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

I think that was a good idea about the glasses, thats. It was something which could've led to a lot more contact between you, but you got it to him without engaging with him. Perfect!

I dropped the DCs off at FW's this afternoon and he'd popped to the shops, but let the door open for us. I had to wait half an hour for him to show up. Just glad he did leave it open - DCs were fine.

He didn't think you were going to drop them off and leave them did he Charlotte? Even if he knew you'd wait with them, tis vair cheeky. How is your youngest doing with it all at the moment?

I wonder if thats games Charlotte on balance of likelihood with a FW, yes... for you too

WTF am I still doing here ! yes thats, i think we can all empathise on that one. So many shared stages. You are doing it!! what i've just read.. you are doing it.. you are being separate and he is seeing that. wow .. huge!
more s.

I managed to find myself a sympathetic listening ear on a long late night phone call who seemed to understand better than I the low down controlling tactics i had been subjected to, and i cried, a lot, into my Still reliving it all and getting it out, the worst thing, being so scared. He can blame that on me having had a previous abusive relationship, and probably blame my abusive laisez faire couldn't give a fuck parents.

Glad you managed to talk things through with someone fi. Getting it out is the best thing. More for you.

Good to have someone listening who understands, fi.

Yes, probably games. Or trying to be Superhuman fit too much into the day. So many people to impress, so little time... I don't give him the narcissistic supply he craves, so I have to wait.

Gosh, that makes me sound quite bitter. But then he has been getting into my head of late. Memories, processing. Like the time I had day surgery and he picked me up two hours earlier than I asked, still woozy from the anaesthetic, and told me about his day, his problems and how I could best help him. Forgot to show any interest in how I was.

DD3 is getting on much better now. It came out in conversation that she was bored and lonely there. I suggested play dates to FW and she is now having loads of them. It works in her favour that he always believed that he is brilliant at socialising and I am useless.

big challenge today, eldest DC challenges me that i haven't said what i think i've said and that i always do this but that its never my fault because i am the adult, so it must mean that i am right but DD cannot trust her own memory and mst therefore be mad!

Now, when i left i had no faith in my memory left. I believed the good memory i thought i once enjoyed to have just been a trick of my own mind, or self-delusion. Since then, I have clawed my way back at least to feeling that i do have a sound memory, that i can remember the exact words i used. He would always say to me that i didn't say things i thuoght i'd said, that he'd remembered things differently to me, or that he didn't remember things happening at all. I thought i was going crazy and now DD really distressed and telling me exacty what i felt with him?!!!???!!

"You never said that" etc. Friend that we were all meeting up with had emailed and said don't worry , no apology needed I don't seem to have received that email, but yet i could have sworn she commented on another part of the same email, so i looked back and yes she had, and the first line related to the arrangements. i also had another friend saying that she was confused because thought we had left it that everyone was meeting at mine.. OMfG!

It really triggered me and i ended up donning the sunglasses to hide the tears and feeling pathetic and unable to keep doing this We did everything everyone else's way, which i really actually hadn't wanted anyone to come to mine because i'm not feeling like the hostess withthe mostess right now, so i know its not because of some desire /hidden agenda on my part, just the opposite.. I'd just had to agree to it despite not really wanting that.

I AM GOING FUCKING NUTS!

Fi what you say about doubts about your memory have got to be a hangover from living with a FW! It must take time to trust yourself and your own perceptions, I know that I doubt everything these days and feel,that I have to run every thought through a FW filter, I have to admit that I handed him the final say on things for so many years that I've had a few jolts recently!

Hope you are ok today, how old is DD? She must feel safe if she can share that confrontation with you. Sorry you had a bad time yesterday.

Well, H is back. His 'hearts and flowers' didn't last long, he's now angry at me for 'not trying', it makes it easier for me in one way but harder in another that I will never get through to him, I knew that but felt I needed to. I sent him the chapter from 'should I stay or should I go', he read it and said it wasn't about him, it was about 'rednecks' who beat their wives. I passed on the name of a counsellor and he said he'd call but now he's saying it is me who is the problem. Classic it may seem a setback but I'm actually thinking its a step forward because I don't feel scared of him. I might revisit the flat rental option. But for now I've told him I think we should live in separate houses and I'm happy to live in either of them as long as he's not there. I'm glad I haven't 'run away' to a rental flat as I feel,a bit more in control.

Well done, thats, baby steps towards freedom.

fi, that sounds horrible, no wonder it was triggering. Bad enough when we get fuckwittery from the FW, when the same behaviour comes from friends and family it does leave me feeling I've lost the plot, so no wonder you felt bad.

Have you read the Cloud and Townsend book about boundaries? As a book to help move on and learn what normality should look like, I found it really helpful.

i think thats the thing to take from that thats - that she felt safe to do it, she's early teens and no doubt much of this stuff is maybe her own fears and assertions to work through as part of moving into teendom?

The long chat overnight did help with getting out the worries about it and got lots of validation (gosh when will that need stop?!). I have to follow up with a calmer discussion to find a way forward which neither of us wants I keep reinforcing that we can't talk when either one of us has gone beyond rational (upset or angry and she was both at the time - I was quivering inside but maintaining a calm reasoned approach outside - swan like with feet frantically paddling beneath the water!).

Communication with teens is one of the most difficult areas to navigate, but its so vital to teens safely constructively going through it all, especially after they've been so scared of authority/broaching issues. The stepping out of childhood into young adulthood.

that whole 'redneck wife beater' stereotype thats - yes, they have those stereotypes so neatly compartmentalised, desperately needing to have! mine would say crap like 'I'd never hit a woman, can't understand how a man can' but youre great at terrorising to the point the woman wishes you just bloody would belt her to put an end to the terrorism laughing about things such as sex when sleeping '...pull your nightie back down after-- alchohol and abuse 'pint of wife-beater please' , normalising weekend alchohol and abuse routines '...the usual Friday night drunk and beat up the wife' ... i could go on.. but I had really never heard of any of these things til him; to him they were all very funny things to continually assert and laugh over with me. ... another fav 'what you don't know won't hurt you' [when talking about extra marital activity].

its horrible seeing all that in hindsight and realising how far we sell ourselves short in the time spent with them.

You will probably still have to make that decision thats, as he's not going to give you that one over which house, because that would mean him accepting its over and being amenable, whereas in fact if he was that he would have opened the divorce papers properly and behaved like an adult with the next steps instead of behaving child-like throwing all his toys out the pram

ooo big post, soz.. thanks for suportive posts ...

Maybe I spoke too soon about DD3. After last night with FW, she said this evening, "what's the point of going to daddy's for one night?" I said, "was there something you didn't like?" And she made little noises and snuggled into my neck. So now I'm back to worrying.

At the other extreme, DD1 called from his last night at bedtime to ask if she could stay another night. I wasn't sure, but she at an age where she has some say in her arrangements, so I said OK. Now DS says he wants to be there too. How do I avoid this becoming a popularity contest? (He has newborn kittens at the moment, clear winner )

I think she also rephrased it as "why do I have to go?" - just clarifying as my response seems needlessly negative otherwise.

The old popularity contest Charlotte. But think of it this way - that's what he has to do to make them want to stay (and even then it's not working on DD3). It's quite possible that your older DC see the situation for what it is and quite cheerfully want to do what suits themselves best, rather than them doing what their dad wants - my step-daughters are very ambivalent about seeing their dad nowadays (ie it's minimum they can get away with), but when he offers to take them on holiday they'd still bite his hand off. It doesn't change what they think about him one bit. Your FW may have his agenda, but the kids have their own (and probably different) agenda.

But DD3 does sound like she's struggling, bless her. Hope you can sort out something that suits her better.

i would say no because he plays games, you are dealing with a FW, it is continually necessary to limit contact to the bare minimum to protect them and limit the disruption likely in one week to give the greatest consistency possible. Maybe another visit for a couple of hours during the day, rather than a whole sleepover? AFter all they can't stay up playing with kittens at night? For my peace of mind i need to know he isn't messing with their heads?.. and i would too wonder about dd3 Charlotte

I would so love to be in a situation where I could just say 'sure, absolutely', like I can do with friends and so on, but its not like that ...booo!

The one comfort I have is that he won't try to take them for all the time or even half because he travels too much. Apparently he was arranging a sleepover last night for DD1, though. On a school night!

With DD3, it's very difficult to change things without any clear reason. It's like when I was married and wishing he'd hit me or have an affair so I'd have a valid reason to leave. Now I'm wanting to know there is something specific so that it is clear what to do for the best.

I could arrange that she just goes for a few hours each weekend. But that is rather drastic if it's just the handovers that she dreads, or if it's just that she's very tired at the moment.

yeah... i do wonder tho Charlotte because these kind of best parent games (taking them more time, even though mine used to be ignored!) is very much part of the toolkit or them.

I think its hard for any DC to go to another residence, even if not for s/overs during the week, because its so disruptive to routine (bearing in mind the emotional upheaval involved for them in switching 'lives' which they take a while to learn to do and even adjusted uses much energy). Police advised me in the end to cut contact during the week as stats seemed to show w/end only works best for DC to keep them level-headed and having plenty of downtime during working/school week. Its not all just about conflicting appointments, they need unemotional upheaval and one consistent base.

If its just that she's very tired at the moment then revert definitely to weekend only, a few hours like you say. Sometimes DC just need to spend a weekend at home! Packing up to stay over all the time, hard work all round. Help them compartmentalise it and predictable whenever there's any upset around revert back to simple minimum disruption. Its a good comfort blanket the working away! At least you have that security for them.

I used to worry about him more than the DC in the arrangements bad mummy scaredof upsetting him.

or? *for

You talk a lot of sense, fi. The emotional upheaval of switching base - yy. FW is keen that they should think of both places equally as home (well of course he is ), and that they should do normal life stuff with him, not just fun weekend stuff. He doesn't really get anyone who thinks differently from him and children are no exception, so if I talked of tiring them out he'd say that's just me because I'm easily tired. (He is the type who would keep going for days on 4 hours sleep a night, safe in the knowledge that he could crash for ten hours or more at the weekend because his good little wife always always did the mornings - oh, and every other time of day, now I come to think of it.)

Meant to say, the point he makes about doing boring stuff as well as fun stuff is a good one or would be if he ever did a nit comb and didn't lose school books and uniform on a fairly regular basis, although he definitely ignores them, too.

agreed Charlotte important to do the boring stuff... just being, else it truly is exhausting for the DC.

I think others have talked a lot of sense at me Charlotte finally some of it must've got through! Its important that they don't follow FW rule clearly. Why do they have to do this? Don't they want the DC to have one stable base and then see them around that? Although I think many don't fully appreciate that, me included until I could really see the difference in practice. Helping out with school runs and dropping at clubs and so on, but don't we all have the rule about 'not on a school night'? When it comes to sleeping over with friends, or doing anything 'after tea' really? until they are much older and even then that can knock out a settled routine and adds to tiredness levels rapidly.

this " keep going for days on 4 hours sleep a night, safe in the knowledge that he could crash for ten hours or more " I wonder if he'd still be a FW if he didn't do this! so long as everyone work around him it works

of course he'd still be a FW, I didn't mean it in that way but yes, if they truly want to be involved in their lives, just get on with the showing them that you are there for them and putting yourself out for them, the driving around and the picking up /dropping off clubs and friends etc. The getting uniform sorted, the important things in life for them, turning up to school with clean school uniform on, running them around makng sure they can hook up with friends, not the self-gratifying show-off dad stuff. The stuff that you just want to do to help them in their own lives, to become independent little people.

CRAP. Bad. Dilemma! H has been begging and pleading all week. Its awful, he thinks he ca wheedle and cajole me into liking him. Ive stood up to him to an extent but I'm not sure where it all leads. I'm trying not to give him 'false hope' but he's so see through... Anyway he wants me to come out to the other place this weekend. His big threat is that he will come back here if I don't. Tbh I'm thinking its easier just to go. And then next week the nuclear option, I get injunction. Or leave town. To complicate matters our house is now on the market. I could have taken it off given that I was thinking about buying him out but I am thinking a fresh start for me is preferable and it could happen more quickly. If I get injunction he wont play games and prevent a sale will he? As that means I get to live there indefinitely....sorry for rambling on!

DO. NOT. GO. TO. THE. OTHER. HOUSE.

That is all.

OK, that's not all. If you go, you are not making things easier. You make them harder. I know it's difficult to resist him but you really really need to. This is why I advised blocking his messages - you have allowed him to get into your head again. You need to stop.

Can you go somewhere else for the weekend? A friend's, a hotel, anywhere. Show him you won't be controlled any more.

Thanks pony! I am hating myself right now...so stupid. I was thinking though, after last weekend when I DIDN'T go, that if he is still trying to cajole me into going, it just shows proof that he 1)isn't listening 2) won't change 3) doesn't care what I want, just wants to press me into his mold . On a positive note, our house might just sell quickly. I'm thinking about where I can go and what I can do feels more tangible now.
Sorry to be so me me me, I've had him to deal with all week. He seriously sent me a text, one of many asking why I couldn't be nice like I used to be, saying 'I used to tickle you and you would laugh'...I hat tickling of course. FFS .

*hate not hat!

I think a message like that would make me shudder, thats!

Sounds a good idea to sell the house and get a new start. And if he blocks a sale, leave it to your solicitor to sort out.

Now, do remember that the big bonus of having grown-up children is that there is nothing he needs to contact you about urgently. So try to put him out of your head space for as much of the day as possible. It is a difficult readjustment - must be very difficult for you after so many years putting him first, but a very important exercise.

Have you done nice things just for yourself? Made plans to treat yourself? It can be very simple. I loved sitting down with a book in the evening and knowing he wasn't there to give me a job to do our make me feel guilty for resting for an hour.