Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships - thread 31

[CharlotteCollins]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books:

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites:

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

What Pony said, definitely. Maybe read back some of what you asked about before and the same answers then for you. Its not stupid, but it is a very nasty habit to break.

The receiving of his tests, the opening of them, the viewing of them, the inward digestion of them? because? Letting go of the hope is undoubtedly hard, but on the other hand you sound full of resolve, house on market and plans to get out.. keep at it with that great to have a plan.

He still thinks there's no divorce and everything is the same as it was, only that you are not being just quite nice enough just now hopefully he ain't seen nothing yet!

Gawd... is it Friday yet??

thats, don't hate yourself. You have to realise this is a process, a journey. You will make decisions that when you look back you'll wish you hadn't - getting out of an abusive relationship isn't in any way a linear thing. When I finally bought my house (after 18 months of living in rented, after leaving FW), the first thing I bought was a sign that said 'Life's a journey, enjoy the ride'. Just stay true to yourself - although I now it's hard to remember who that is after so long.

Stay away from him. You can do this.

thats staying away from him is a good idea if you can, and an injunction is even better. A wise poster on an old thread said that separating from an abuser is a case of two steps forward, and one step back. Allow yourself the steps back, but keep moving ahead in the right direction regardless. You are doing great.

Being away from him will give you much needed headspace, I know it's very difficult to make that happen, but I am now in that position and am hoiking you over to the other side!

Come join me for some [tea] and you can do this!

tests? 'texts' ! x-crossed CHarlotte sorry

horrible and hard on yourself to feel stupid, but i did/do too but that again is bcause of him drawing and twisting and inducing and coercing and denying and minimalising.

now i want cake too!!!

thats can you try making a list of his bad behaviours to refer to? I've been doing this by posting up random memories of H's behaviour onto MN for others to comment on, and have found this very helpful.

Whenever I am wobbling, or find myself falling for his bullshit kind words again, I look through the list. Some things I excuse as being a misunderstanding, or me not being clear enough about my needs, and other things i realise are just plain mean, and manipulative.

If you can do the Freedom Programme, then do. It's helped me loads to understand his changing behaviour as different tactics and treat them as such.

fairyfi I have and . Come on over!

d'you know what name if i thought you were near enough I'd be there especially as you have AND

I am scared to go to sleep tonight after such horrendous dreams last night

I think i sound like a kid saying that!

Thanks so so much for all the support even though this may seem a twisted approach on my part I feel that having drawn a few lines in the sand and having them ignored by H has clarified the situation for him as well as for myself, I know I shouldn't care about him (and I don't really) but I think I am so co-dependant (?) that if I do anything remotely 'selfish' without having extreme levels of justification then I'll just fail. And the way I could see myself failing is this: I leave him, make my big effort to stand up for myself, have my moment of glory in leaving him, then... and I end up 'failing' as a result, for example I give up my job because I think I want something better but then I can't get something better, I squander my meagre savings flailing around, give up our great asset of big house (this has to be done anyway) in exchange for small flat then find out it has problems and I can't solve them, or maybe it's noisy with upstairs neighbours or maybe it doesn't work for the cat, in effect, I find myself in a worse position than I am now with no financial security and absolutely no one to fall back on, burn my bridges with H and he waltzes off with 1/2 our assets, fair enough, but also a lucrative job while I as a 50 year old 'junior' scrabble around to make ends meet... sorry that's a bit pathetic but also quite cathartic to write!

What I'm saying is, once I've burned my bridges by officially declaring divorce/injunction/whatever, there is no going back. I have no realy back-up network, no family here, nice friends who seem supportive but they've got their own lives.

Sometimes I think it would be better to just make H, who says he doesn't want me to leave him, into something acceptable, state my terms. Ideally I think I would do this, get a nice 'transition' phase of about a year in which I call the shots and H goes to Men's Abuse Counselling. And we live in separate houses during that time. At the end of that time we decide how to move forward. I think that H would have such a bad time not being totally in control that he would instigate the divorce and I'd essentially be single by then . Apologies for that fantasy scenario! I will also now imagine a snowball in hell!

I had a long talk with grownup DS last night, I told him I'd asked for divorce. DS does not really like his dad, we had a long talk about things, I was of course apologetic about all the crap that had gone on over the years and how dictatorial H had been, how we could count on him ruining any occassion, about why he might be like that...DS wants to buy a flat of his own, we talked about how much we liked the area we live in, he has lots of friends here, and how I wanted to buy a smaller flat in the same area so he could always have a place to come back to. He thought it was a good idea, I briefly discussed my idea of buying H out of the house but we said we'd see how it goes, if we get quick high offers on the house might be better to cut ties and buy the smaller place. But that's assuming divorce etc goes through. Yikes I've dug myself a hole by putting house on market before divorcing him

you also 'waltz off with half the assets' yay! and freedom thats. you have already 'burnt your bridge'? didn't you already issue divorce proceedings by handing him the letter personally?

How can you 'make' someone into something acceptable? surely thats what he's trying to do to you?!!!

This: I know I shouldn't care about him (and I don't really) you acknowledge that you don't care about him, so why go through a year down the line staying in different houses, etc.? You cannot 'make' him anything!

Its hugely scarey to really properly let go of everything, but actually you are grabbing hold of so much more, you are grabbing hold of life! of independence, of treating yourself in the way you deserve and not playing slave to some abusive FW.

it doesn't matter what your job is, your happiness is worth so much more and happiness doesn't have a price (corney, but true), would you say you have happiness now? Want for more for yourself. yes, you will have to start managing the pennies carefully, oh but hang on you will have half of all the assets?! Surely you actually wouldn't have to worry so much?

You need to talk this through on here, and with others, but not your DC, even grown up DS. He should not be your sounding board in this, you are both his parents. Please don't share this stuff with him? Like how his father is this and that, and what you will do financially. Just sort it out direct with his father. That bit sounds codependent upon your DC.

Colliewobbles a plenty, take this leap of faith that all will be managable by you. YOu have done it already, but just need to stop talking to him!

thinking of pony 's 'stoppit'

Another bad night of sleep here and now so tired, how long is everyone taking to get over decades of abuse? I am still realising that i don't know how to think straight without being scared of his 'consequences'. Oh and he's taken to intimidating friends, yesterday he followed a friend of mine into her bank (well, yes, it could be his bank) but he actually stood behind her so close as to be touching leering over her shoulder - she blanked him completely and refused to engage in any way - thats the way!!! - so he started shuffling and coughing, she just carried on to the teller position and walked out without a 2nd glance or any acknowledgement to him at all but does anyone else out there have this going on after they've left?

Am i amking something of nothing, or should this be a worry? Why does someone actually do that - why are my friends important to him? Thankfully most of them are now people that he doesn't know at all, so can only intimidate from afar (or up close it seems!), he seems to have 'turned'the rest. He's such a lovely unassuming funny guy, and i'm such a controlling bitch blah blah ... oh I am tired!

oh and we have had the most weird things going on with our phones over the last weeks. First I couldn't reach one of my DC nor him me, then another couldn't use their phone at all. I haven't been able to pick up answerphone messages and when people ring me its always 'engaged' - this is my mobile? its NEVER engaged! The same was happening with DS phone, but that then stopped. We all have the same provider, but with different phones, and decided we'd all swaps SIMS around, and the SIM seems to share the problem! Until the phone was switched off away from the house and restarted, then all worked, but as soon as returned home the same again, mobiles engaged and cannot pick up answerphone messages. One by one all the DC phones have returned to normal, but mine not. So i have to park up away from home and pull the battery, restart phone and i can get messages and DC/others can ring me. Everyone i spoke to has never heard of this issue?! Don't even know where to begin with it, as the provider has no idea what i'm on about, but mine is still doing that 'buzzing' thing soon as i get near to home then the signal goes wonky and bang, back to square 1. Any ideas... anyone...?

i feel like our phones are someone else's control the DC are saying it and all getting very mad about it! Always seems to be at vital points when one is far away reliant upon meet ups/pickups...

Thank you Fi and what brilliant insight, that he is trying to make me 'acceptable'-- totally! And it ain't working!

The discussion with DS was really good, actually, we have NEVER discussed this before and actually as he seemed pleased that I was finally taking action...he said he was fed up with hearing the shouting (this is mostly H shouting at me/for me (we have 3 story house and instead of looking for me/anything he cannot find he just bellows) and I wonder what else he has heard... we've had shouting rows in the early hours. But point taken. I told him I didn't intend to involve him or DD but just wanted him to know.

But I'm on my emotional rollercoaster. I am actually quivering with excitement because I've seen the property of my DREAMS and I could realistically buy it and move in. It is a small-ish flat which needs TOTAL renovation which is something I could do myself, in a great location, realistically it won't be around for long. I've also found 2 other flats that would be perfect and don't require any work whatsoever (but don't have a garden for the cat). So I'm keen to get divorced and buy my own place. End of. When I get going on a project I am un-deterrable... and it's been a long time since I felt like this!

Sorry Fi didn't even say anything about the rest of your message my DS just got a new phone because his old one was doing what sounds like something similar, got to the point where he couldn't make or receive calls (annoying in the extreme) and he believes the fault was with the phone, he's just got a new one and sent his old off for some sort of repair... my technical knowledge is a bit sketchy but you need to be contactable, can you buy a cheap PAYG and see if that has the same issues, to determine whether it may be the location? It may be the network coverage is patchy. It can be checked if you ask your network provider!

Thing is... there's nothing wrong with the phones?!?! and i've had the same network for like forever... nothing is new, its come on and gone on some, its totally weird! i've tried uses their SIM card in my phone and my phone works just fine!! its on my number, and it was on their numbers, but now isn't. but their phones work fine now and so does mine with their sims in, but my number needs continuall resetting.. i am deeply suspicious...

Have you literally just been viewing and managed to find the property of your dreams?! blimey! ARe you going to offer then? You need to be ina position to sell before they will take your offer seriously (divorce from a FW is no quick thing, especially when there's wrangling over properties to be considered).

Nowi'm putting work aside for an hour's power nap instead of lunch because I am so fucking tired and just hope that the dreams leave me alone. The sicko needs to get out of my head!

If they anything gets changed around (building work for example) it can screw up network coverage, even on a temporary basis, as I understand it! Have you done a check of local coverage? Try googling your postcode and the phone network, you may find others are having similar problems. So sorry you've been plagued with nightmares, is it a new thing? Have you tried the calm bath, sleepytime tea routine, it has helped me in the past (when FW is away that is!) and it is such bliss to get a good night's sleep.

Yes I'm getting a bit too keen on property hunting, I know enough not to jinx it before I've got something tangible to purchase with! but, so as not to jinx it, I hadn't been doing any looking around at all, so yesterday and today when I had a look I was pleased to find 3 online (I know my target area very well) that made my heart lurch with desire and I mentally moved in and arranged the furniture and chose paint colours... I like to think that when I'm ready there will be flats available. The market is so strange, I have a fear of selling then not being able to afford something because the market's galloped past me...and I end up regretting not having fought to keep things as they were/as they are now.

Its sound like you are will be well positioned for the move once sales secured all round and divorce finalising approaching. I don't think you can be too keen! It's brilliant and its taking you out of what you have now to what your life will be without a FW fucking it up

Weall have the same network, so you would think we would all suffer the same but we are not. I could understand if we had different networks, but its all here to test because of that.

What is sleepytime tea routine? I haven't heard of it. I go to sleep no probs (apart from when the nightmares are so bad again then i'm scared to!). Its part of recovery,they used to be loads worse, but they peak and trough now. I cannot control what horrible dreams will come to me in the middle of sleep and sometimes i might sleep through it but suddenly realise how horrific it was at some point during the day

It's just the Celestial Seasons sleepy time tea fi but it's for people who have a hard time falling asleep, I know people who swear by it but it won't help FW induced nightmares.

I'm gearing up for a fight when he realizes that I am not going!

fi, that does sound suspicious, especially with all phones not working and then gradually only yours. It's possible to scramble signals, isn't it, to block reception in some way? I don't know what I'm talking about really, unfortunately. But whatever or whoever is causing it, maybe a new phone/SIM will help?

As for nasty dreams and that, I've had a few recently that leave me feeling as if I haven't rested when I wake up - or that I suddenly think about during the day and they give me a nasty feeling like I haven't truely escaped and I never will. Mind you, I tend to give such thoughts short shrift. Someone said to me when I had my first DC that my body took 9 months to get out of shape and I should give it at least that to recover. I'm taking the same attitude to the abuse: 14 years in, 14 years out. In the mean time, yes to peaks and troughs. Sometimes I think about it a lot, relive a lot, then at other times I almost forget about it for weeks. I don't enjoy the processing times, but I think they're probably important in the long run. Can you take the same pragmatic approach to the nightmares? "There's probably some point to them and my brain's sorting itself out. I just hope tonight's not the night."

I think I mentioned post-surgery FWery recently. That's been a significant part of my current round of processing. One day last week, I saw, on a new level, how bad his behaviour was that time. It's gone again now - my head's back to making excuses for him, minimising what happened. So I can see the point of the cycle of thinking it all through, having a rest to let things settle, then thinking it all through again. Gradually, I hope to have more clarity about what's acceptable and what isn't.

thats, glad to hear your latest post sounding more positive. You have entertained these thoughts of getting him to instigate the divorce for a while now: time to give them up, though. If he hated the feeling of not being totally in control, he'd fight hard to get back into control, wouldn't he? Quite right about the snowball in hell.

Glad you're not planning to use DCs as a sounding board or shoulders to lean on.

KOKO

Also meant to say earlier, fi, that what you said about putting his needs ahead of the DCs, to keep him happy, is quite true. I keep worrying about rocking the boat, rather than doing what seems right.

Mind you, having said that, what seems right is so difficult to work out! DD3 was crying about going to Daddy's and how boring it is this morning. I saw her briefly this afternoon and she laughed at me for turning up at school (long story) when she's going with Daddy now. I guess changing her mind is her prerogative as a 5yo!

I've had more emails to a different account, from a different account. I didn't read the first one, just deleted it. The second one I saw the subject just said 'so you don't want to then?' - I don't know what the question was. Not that it matters.

I'm feeling crap about it. It is a bit under my skin and I feel guilty because of lovely DP. I also still feel guilty for not replying even though I don't owe FW anything. This is a man that threatened to punch me for crying out loud! I can't believe it is so hard all this time on.

I'm worried that my constant ignoring is tantamount to throwing down the gauntlet rather than sending a clear message that I'm not interested.

They are always sent late at night.

thank you Charlotte - its true, very true that yes absolutely the dreams are reflective of the processing of each stage and experience, its all the more obvious this is the casewhen i see how much my dreams have changed, but its just a roller coaster, and i just have to roll with the punches, no choice really. Sorry to hear you have similar perhaps going on, but it does help to hear that others are going through similar experiences after being out, and for some time. There was talk on here along time ago about the considered time to expect to take to recover, and it was said i think a year for every 10... well thats wrong! and maybe there's no magic formula, just keep getting on and dealing with what comes up.

interesting the scrambling thing? is it stupid of me to lose my last link with everyone that has my number from years back, including important business links that i will no longer be contactable on that? I am either paranoid, or being tracked, and i don't know which. but just so tired of weird shit.

Romy its such a shame to have any reaction to him, stupid late night random idiotic texting? and yes, so understand about ignoring being viewed a s a challenge! a reason to up the anti. Ar eyou able to set up your phone to simply route messages straight to bin, or another suitably apt folder name? Tell him to stop and that you will report him for any more instances? then just report him if it continues?

Fi I think that dreams are very important for processing events, past and present. I remember reading recently about a situation where someone was being chased in their dreams and it was terrifying, through counselling and talking through life events (can't remember exactly what the issues were) at some point they were having the 'chasing' dream, in their dream they confronted the thing that was chasing them, and it turned out to be not scary at all and the dreams stopped. Anyway, the point was that talking about the issues and difficult events in real life helped solve the events in dream life...not sure if that makes sense! But also, I think that bad dreams are all too common symptoms of PTSD which I've heard a lot of DV suffers from.

yeah, so true thats PTSD dreams keep recurring because the stuff isn't processed ... yet! stuff that we cannot face .. yet.

but mine are changing, its just that more and different stuff keeps coming up, bloody bloody yuk and tiring. hate him keep turning up in them.

The mind is clever in protecting you from the worst of trauma's and releasing stuff gradually into the conscious, a protection mechanism, but its not so easy to get away from the sub-conscious at night is it ..

Someone said to me that fear, guilt and shame keeps experiences locked inside us, this was a top-notch PTSD recovery service (for war heroes) - well I guess I feel like i was in a war zone (on the front-line) for far too many years, without a way of hiding from active service, so continually in the firing line, until I was shell-shocked [.... a reaction to the intensity of the bombardment and fighting that produced a helplessness appearing variously as panic and being scared, or flight, an inability to reason, sleep, walk or talk. [1] - ref: Wikipedia on 'shell-shocked' - describes PTSD perfectly]

Have you spoken to a doctor about PTSD recovery, fi?

One year for every ten? Sounds ambitious, and if that were the case I'd be totally cool by about now... but then my brain has always worked slowly! (That's one reason I love MN - I can have a conversation at the speed my brain works, which is just not possible irl!)

romy, can you mark the emails as spam so that they get automatically redirected before you can see them?

I'm not sure it's possibe to send a clear message to a FW, is it? They will always misinterpret if they wish...