How much am I hurting myself with affair?

[needcake]

Please be assured I hate myself for having an affair before I start my message.

I have fought myself over my feelings and I'm certain I love him (personal issues prevented me knowing for a long time) and I'm certain he loves me (again through a long period of understanding what love is & believing) and last month we were about to make the step to being together, but he halted things because - extremely understandably - he couldn't leave his young DD as he's afraid he won't see her at all/much (access and distance he would move to be with me).

So now I'm afraid I've tricked myself into believing something that isn't real (though my head & heart both say it is, it's my fears) so I feel quite adrift. I can't not have him in my life, I can't let myself be strung along, what can I do? Obviously I've said I won't be used etc so I know he's not messing me round and we've just been friends since, but I want more. And by more I mean the package of intimacy and togetherness, not just sex as that was only a small part of our time together.

How much am I hurting myself allowing things to potentially indefinitely carry on as they were? Of course my fear is if I let him have his cake and eat it, there's no motivation for things to ever move forward, but being together at all is better than not. For the record, he knows none of my feelings about this and has said he is ok with friends as he just wants me in his life in any way. Just wondering what your thoughts were on me possibly allowing myself to hurt even more when I know that's probably what's going to happen?

Hope you're doing OK these days, Jonesthestream. Remember your thread well and really felt that, whatever you chose to do in the end, you deserved happiness and peace of mind again.

Some men do leave but your guy isn't one of them! Look you need to move on, no it is not better to have him in your life even if it is just as a friend. Cut contact completely, remember you are second best to him and he made his choice.

This man isn't the solution to your problems and you're not the solution to his!

The fact that he's said that he doesn't want to leave his DD should tell you all you need to know.

Needacake. Why can't you just find a man that doesn't have a wife and child?

I really wouldn't find a man that had an affair attractive anyway.

Perhaps you deserve each other.

Did a having a moral compass ever rank high for you? At all? Ever? Thought not. Classy lady. Classy gent. Go for it. Made for each other.

See you in here in five years bleating about your faithless husband/partner.

I suggest you look at the chumplady website to read of the utter heartbreak and desolation affairs cause. I think you'll find that cheating partners all read from the same moth eaten script.

OP with you having been in the situation of wronged wife and knowing how much hurt and devastation it causes I find it hard to understand that you would choose to put another woman in the same situation as you. You also know the devastation that your husband would feel if he found out. If you made the decision to forgive his affair then it is not acceptable to even it up at a later date.

And what of the children involved and how they would feel.

If this man was going to leave his wife he would have done so when you had originally agreed. You are going to wait for something that doesn't happen and would you really want a man that would do that.

If you are unhappy in your marriage then end it but this man is not the answer if you are unhappy.

You are hurting yourself but you are also hurting innocent parties and children too. Please walk away from him.

MrNosey
When I asked whether you are a man I did not ask it in any bad way. I just noticed how men brains are fascinating (I am a cliché woman do not forget): money-wise they are very wise but when it comes to sex and emotions they are not that clever. The OW got sex with my H and help (he was the knight on the white horse!) to sort out some urgent problems- but he simultaneously worked harder to give us his original family more financial security and emotional support- ignoring how hurtful his affair could have been to us.

Some MN ladies wear velvet gloves when they deal with the women 'in distress' who post here, but if males were to write the same posts only mythological gods could have compete with their fury at them.
Whether you like it or not women, I -the cliché woman- say: given the evolution state we are in, there are many affairs where good married fathers have diminished responsibilities compared to the OW. (No I am not speaking about the disgusted married men who infest dating sites and hide their marital status or claim that they are about to split up. BTW I was on this dating site: most married males do clearly state that they are married and have no intention to leave their family- they just want to spice up their sex life.) So the OP is just disgusting. Whether you like it or not.
Now about betrayed women who become the OW- well I believe that this would be the outcome if there was no real recovery in the marriage after the original affair. As MrNosey suggested maybe this OP preferred to remain in her marriage after her H's affair because she did not want to risk the security it offered her. She still does not want to take this risk and the responsibility on her life and expect the OM to break his original family and offer her an alternative secure family home.

MaMa ok I see. I thought your point was "typical man, thinking only of the money"

MrNosey, Nop and Yeah I just thought: ''TYPICAL man thinking only about the security aspects of the relationships and neglecting the bagatelle 'sex'''.
Still I think that you are spot on with OP.
One of my little sons could not understand why I went mad at my H, 'just' because he kissed another woman and took her to a restaurant (even not too often- only when he had to go out and eat and it happened that she was around), 'after all', the little one said, 'he is with you for ever and works hard for all of us' (all his income is in joint accounts- I could have checked and discovered cues of the affair but I really do not care about monies- I care more about intimacy, emotions, vows, and honesty and I together with my repentant and tormented H will work hard so that my sons and daughters get it as well. )

MrNosey I love men- I just have to work hard on their typical thinking

I'm not going to slate you for having an affair- everyone who has an affair knows it's wrong but it's emotions- it's not rational or logical. Human beings are weak and flawed. It would be simple if everyone could control their emotions and live perfect lives, wouldn't it?

But I also think some people here are not giving you credit for sticking with your marriage- presumably you did this because you - like your OM - found it impossible to leave because you have 2 children or finances would make it hard for everyone. I know that it's often suggested here that women- and men- leave marriages that are dead in the water but it's never as easy as some people suggest unless there is terrible violence or other abuse.

I know of countless marriages where couples are compromising, making do, and they drift along for decades sometimes- until one of them meets someone else then they have a dilemma.

I think OP you need to understand that your OM has left you high and dry. He can't leave and that is actually all for the good of his DD and his wife, if he has any feelings left for her that can be built upon now.

Don't keep wishing him back because this current scenario could be repeated many times over and each time you would feel worse.

You can't be friends either- that would torture you.

Let it go and if you haven't already have some counselling to help you to decide if you want to stay married to your DH. I know you say the marriage has been dead for years but be honest- it's easy to paint that picture in your own mind when something else looked as if it were on offer. I suspect your marriage is not that bad and you have patched it up after your Dhs affair- if indeed there was ever one. You need to be honest with yourself over your motives for staying in the marriage and whether you want to stay.

I can't not have him in my life

Love, he's NOT in your life, he's in your pants, for the brief amount of time you are able to steal from your respective marriages.

You are addicted to the idea that he will make it all better, and he won't. he pursued you and you fell for it, but you know it was wrong.

Be brave, end it and save yourself.

I say this as a person who has just lost the one person who made everything wonderful (neither of us married/partnered, both free to be together, but his issues have meant that he has binned me 3 times this year, and the last time unforgivably so) I genuinely thought that I couldn't live without him in my life, and I do struggle sometimes with the pain of it all, but sometimes we have to do what we have to do, not what we want to do.

WHEN this guy comes back (because I have a feeling he still will) I will HAVE to tell him to go. it will be against every cell in my being, I love him for everything that he is, and could be, but i can't allow myself to get so spat up and out again. I can't allow my DC to be witness to my hurt again.

he is ok with friends as he just wants me in his life in any way.

Well yes, he wants you in his life to make his marriage more bearable but he's not willing to leave to be with you.

I don't think it EVER works trying to go back to being friends when there has been a sexual element and when ONE person at least wants more than that.

If this is to work, you each have to leave your marriages, set up homes apart from each other and start dating like any couple who may or may not end up together. All you have to go on are snatched meetings when the grass always looks decidedly greener.

Look at it this way- if you hang on, and give him something, he will never leave. He's told you that.

If you back off and stay away there is a chance- a small one- he may miss you madly and decide he wants you and will leave his wife. But as long as you prop up his marriage , he won't.

OP, get a job if you do not yet have one; become financially independent; free your H if you feel that your marriage cannot be saved; make sure your kids are not hurt from your divorce if you decide to divorce; once you are divorced, once your kids are OK, and you have built for yourself some secured mini-family and you do not need a man to be financially independent then start another life with someone else- not with this married father who is a cheater but has more sense than you do. MrNosey's post can be an eye-opener for you. Now if you are not up to the challenges of a single mother life then learn the grace of gratitude and be grateful to your H for the security he is giving you and your kids.

Doesn't sound like OP will leave DH to be single.
Could be wrong but it sounds like she wants to hop from one relationship to another, with all the benefits that brings, including shared house, etc

I think that's a bit unlikely MrN because the reality is that the OM would be considerably worse off. He would be likely to be supporting his ex W and DD for many years, they may well live in the family home, and like many men who leave their wives he may end up living in a tiny flat or a bedsit, until his DD is 18, or he meets someone else to share costs with.
It would be most unusual for him to be able to offer the OP a life of luxury if they set up home together.

And although I am not condoning the affair, I think anyone who dismisses the role that money has in divorces - or choosing to stay put- is not living in the real world. There are many women who are in less than happy marriages because they choose to give their children a stable home life and a certain level on material comfort. Not talking about terrible marriages but it's not as easy as some people suggest to walk away when you cannot provide for yourself and perhaps do not want to take money from the state.

pinkfrocks I didn't say life of luxury at all and didn't mean to imply it.
There is a certain amount of security in being a couple - possibly dual income, someone to share the chores, someone to provide companionship, etc. It's not just about money as I said.

Saying "leave and be single" can be very daunting for a lot of people because they will lose this (as can be seen ad infinitum in this forum from the reluctance of people to leave horrible spouses).
The money of course can be a huge factor - "how can I manage?" must be a very very common thought.

I accept that but you did say 'shared house'- which implied she would share a house again with OM- either rented or bought and even though you insist that wasn't about money it seemed implied.

But being in the same house as someone you no longer love can be the loneliest place on earth. Ironically, based on your comments, experience and stats show that it's usually men who hitch up with someone new quite soon after a break up- they hate being alone - whereas women seem to be able to manage better- same with widowers and widows- it's often the men who remarry and the women don't bother.

PinkFrocks: OM does not want to leave - it is quite clear from the OP. The reasons behind his decision are not important in this discussion. (They are very important for his wife and kids.)
OP might thinks that if she makes a big sacrifice and gives up the mental and material comforts of her marriage, OM will be coming running to her. Many OW have this kind of thinking. It might flatter the bastard (OM) but that will not make him loose his mind and live his family for her. For all we know, OM might be with OP just because he has the security of his family life behind him and can frolic in her bed without having to financially provide for her.
Some of the non single men might enjoy a bit of risky sex- but when it is done they know to plan for long term and know the importance of having a stable relationship. They are wonderful - but some of them must just learn to keep their pants zipped and their hands in their pockets when they are with women that are not their partner.
I believe that women are more emotionally and socially developed and have bigger control of their sex-life: but some of them tend to use these skills in a manipulative way. And more often than not OW are attracted by nice fathers who are in long-term relationship. They do not like risk! These men proved themselves- did not they? BTW there are researches that clearly indicate that men are more attractive to women when they are already in relationship- men on the other hand like to play the knight with the shining armor and desperate damsels use that to attract them by magnifying their need to be saved by a knight.

I'm sorry Mama but why are you telling me things that I already understand? I was replying to the post by MrN - in principle, not only about the OP. I'm not sure what you point of this new post is...?

I read your OP and I hear blablablablablah. Always the saem, lots of teenager drama and feelings and emotional navel gazing.

Live in the real world.

So what if you're hurting yourself? You're hurting his wife and kid more.

Grow up.

I actually think there is a load of tosh in that post- you seem to want to discuss all kinds of things that have not a lot to do with the OP.

The reason OM will not leave his family IS important. Why do you think it's not?

What evidence is there that the OP thinks if she leaves the OM might follow her? I certainly didn't suggest this- so why are you making these presumptions on behalf of 'women'?

(It's 'lose' but the way, not 'loose'.)

And I have made the point in a previous post- to the OP- that the relationship with the OM is propping up his dull marriage.

Some of the non single men might enjoy a bit of risky sex- but when it is done they know to plan for long term and know the importance of having a stable relationship. They are wonderful - but some of them must just learn to keep their pants zipped and their hands in their pockets when they are with women that are not their partner.

Eh? non single men- you mean married?
WTF is 'risky sex'?
They are wonderful?

I'm sorry but I don't have a clue what you are trying to say though I can guess and suppose you might just be saying that some married men like a fling but know they have too much to lose, so they dump the women who they have had sex with.

And women are attracted to 'nice fathers' and also men who are already attached? They don't like risk? I think you are muddling up a huge number of issues here - namely that some women prefer married men because they ( the women) are afraid of a committed relationship so they choose men who are not available.

That is a whole different topic.

And it's all off topic really as far as the OP goes.

Fair enough pinkfrocks but I wasn't considering women or men in general, but this particular woman (OP).
Regardless of the statistics, there are some people who just don't like being single and it seems like OP may be one of them.

well we just don't know that do we? I'm not disagreeing with you in principle at all. I'm just saying we mustn't assume. Many couples if they are in negative equity, or perhaps one spouse ( often the woman) doesn't earn enough to support themselves even if the other partner contributes, especially if they have not a ' profession' or a career or if they gave it up when the DCs came along. I can say quite truthfully that my mum decided not to divorce my dad at 70 because she decided she didn't want to downsize from a tiny house to a tinier house. Sometimes the practicalities outweigh the benefits of being apart.

Pink, Sorry for the misunderstanding. I know that in the old days cases like your mum's ones did unfortunately abound. I am talking about young women who still can find a job if they want to do so. I know it might be tough for the ones who put on hold their career for a man who turned out to be a bastard. I am a feminist. My daughters are studying to be engineers although they excel in art and music. They must be able to be financially independent at any time in their life. (I am financially independent.)
Now your mum had the intelligence and decency to remain in the marriage without trying to woe other married men. Nothing to do with OP.
About the non-single men: no I did not restrict it to married men only. I am talking about all men who are in a relationship- whether they are married or not. If both partners pledge monogamy- then each of them is responsible to keep their relationship monogamous, regardless of their marital status. (English is not my first language- so I know it is difficult to understand my texts- My apologies.)
So these women who do not want to commit and thus choose to be with committed fathers and partners are fine if they are committed to destroy other people life (affairs can be extremely painful, and it is an understatement- believe me I know it first hand.) I did not even talk about them (they do not belong to this post as you said): I talked about the ones (they might be single or not) who seem to think that their Mr Rights are to be found in long- term relationships with other women, and who do everything they can to woo them- either because their biological clock is ticking or because they can't be alone for any reason. OP belongs to this group. She does not want to take the risk to separate so as not to be on her own - because of monies or because she cant be alone or for whatever reasons- but she wants to break the marriage of the OM to avoid taking any risks on her own. Her well-being precedes the well-being of her kids, of his kids and of his wife. And no the reasons why he does not break up with his family are not important in this discussion. (They are very important for his wife and kids- and I hope he will do all he can to improve his marriage now that he is not having an affair anymore- and I hope OP will leave him alone to focus on his family.)