But we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's March 2015 and the Stately Home is still open to visitors. Unfortunately I have not been able to make the links work; is it possible for one of you lovely people to do that?.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks so much for replying Meerka. You've given me a lot to think about. It absolutely won't be so bad if she doesn't come and I think it's a moot point now anyway. She tried to cancel the flight today (narc drama at its finest) but couldn't because I booked it.

I don't want nc but I'm not entirely sure what I do want. I'll continue to mull it over.

RJ you're right, I am minimising. There are areas of my past that are really grim - if I wrote it all down I think it would actually be quite horrifying. I guess I've been programmed "not to make a fuss".

However, I still maintain that my story isn't as horrific as some of those detailed in Susan Forward's excellent book.

how woudl you feel about saying "Since you wanted to cancel the flight but couldn't, I've done it for you".

It's very disconcerting for someone who's playing games to be taken at their word ;) They have no idea how to react and go for the Woe Is Me My Awful Daughter Approach. All you can do then is say "im sorry you feel like that, tell me when you do want to come".

Call their bluff, every time. But be prepared to handle histrionics :/ it's draining.

I started a thread earlier today called "validating myself" and it was suggested I copy and paste it on here (thank you peppermint crayon) - hope that's OK. I'll paste it below and then go and start reading this thread from the begining:-

Validating myself
I'm currently working at coming to terms with my past, a painful and very hard process. background in a nutshell - I was sexually abused when I was 11 (no one in my family know this, just my DH) and have always been an outsider , always felt on the periphery of my birth family (oldest of 4, both parents still alive). While I've been doing this I've come to realise that I don't feel I really count (exist even) as a person in my own right, that unless I have someone to care for (DH, DC's that is) I feel in limbo, as if there is no purpose to my life and as if I don't deserve to be here on this earth.

It may sound daft, because I have always been this way I think, but it's only recently I have woken up to how deeply ingrained it is. I can't seem to find any motivation to do anything for me - e.g. I love to sew, knit, crochet, cook, but if there is no one to do it for, it seems a waste of time. My youngest DS (I have 4 DC's he is the only one still living at home) is likely to be moving out in the next year or two and I am scared witless that if I don't sort myself out, when he goes I will just wither and die (melodramatic but it's how I feel)

I have never had a good relationship with my birth family and that seems to be worsening. I am uncomfortable when in their company and feel I am being sidelined even more than I have been in the past. I visited my parents yesterday and was talking to them about my oldest DD who lives in USA. My sister walked in and started talking about her son and granddaughter and as always happens, the conversation I was having about my DD was just dropped. When I tried to join in the conversation, I was talked over, or just ignored. This is the norm though, my parents have never been interested in anything I have done, if I accomplish anything and tell them about it, I am boasting. if I talk about my children (all grown up now BTW) they try and top what I am saying with a tale about one of my nieces or nephews recent activities which is bigger/better/much more interesting. This is not done in a way that I can combat either, it is very hard to explain, but I know from experience if I try and call them on it, they say I am being silly, have misunderstood or am being jealous because I am not centre of attention. When my children were small if I asked my parents to babysit my DM's first response was always "why? where are you going?". If either of my sisters asked her to babysit her response was always "yes".

Probably because I have never had it, I inwardly crave their approval. I so badly want to hear them say "well done" for something (anything!) but I don't think I ever will., and I think this contributes to my lack of self worth. I feel I need validating all the time. I know it's not right, but I don't know what to do to change my mindset.

I don't have friends I can discuss this with. I always expect people to dislike me and never really fit in. It's lonely.

Don't really know what I am asking of you, but I would appreciate greatly any advice on how to move forward.

Although we are made to feel it is normal behaviour we deep down know it's not as we do not tell people in real life.

I might tell someone my mum is a bit critical and tell them about the finger across the window sill to check I had dusted but I have only told a couple of people in real life about the 'why are you wasting your life/if I had my time again I wouldn't have children' comment'.

privatematter How would she behave of she did turn up on Thursday? If she is going to be 'oh woe is me' the whole time then may be cancelling the flight will be a good idea.

I just need to talk this through. I'm only kind of realising and accepting it all now, at 38. I had my DS3 late last year and after he was born I had PND. I'm feeling better now, but I think having depression has changed my brain a bit and unlocked some very old stuff. I'm not sure how to put this all so I think I'll just go chronologically.

My parents had me young and were very cool parents. Being head-turning was always super important in our household. They were very different to other parents, and I always had the impression that we were always being looked at when we went anywhere.

I am the oldest of three sisters and all my mum ever wanted to do was be a mother. She says with pride that she never had ambition to do anything else. I think this was compounded when she got pregnant at 15 and was put into a mother and baby home and my DB was subsequently adopted.

But equally, DM felt she had missed out on her youth by having DB as she was forced out of school and her family. She met DF when she was 17 and I was born when they were 20.

I didn't know about this until many years later, but when I was little, DM would tell DF that because she had missed out on her youth, she needed to go out in the evenings to pubs and clubs etc to have some fun. What she meant by fun was shagging blokes for no reason. Not affairs, just shags. But also not strangers. She shagged someone DF worked with, and also his younger brother once. DF told me she would come back and confess all with a kind of gleeful pride. He didn't want to lose us, so he forgave her. This happened intermittently throughout my childhood.

To us, DM was very focused and dedicated on the household. As a child I can't remember her ever being any fun, just constantly tense about things getting messy, or irritated by anything that was too raucous. we were rarely allowed friends round and when we did, they were ruthlessly dissected afterwards and disapproved of for being, mostly, "overconfident". When I think about it now, I realise she was already stifling anything that meant we would become our own women. I think she enjoyed us being little children so much that she didn't want that dynamic to change.

As we got older it got more obvious, like insisting we couldn't cope with Saturday jobs or learning to drive, mostly because she couldn't. Once I was invited to a concert with friends, and she convinced me I had no idea how loud and crowded it would be. She always had a reoccupation that I might be on the verge of fainting or being sick and I (and youngest DSis) have suffered from panic attacks and emetophobia because of this.

The big crisis point happened when I went to university. DM literally went insane. She started clubbing with middle DSis and throwing herself at blokes, most of whom were half her age. She shagged and then stalked a bloke from my year. Middle DSis was blackmailed into enabling this. She was 15 and just wanted to hang out with her boyfriend and DM would ground her if she didn't go out with her clubbing etc.

DM would write to me at uni detailing her conquests and showing off about it all. During his point, she also became obsessed with a popular band of young blokes (won't say who for obv reasons) and followed them round the country, finding out what hotels they were staying in and booking in there too. She took middle Dsis with her because she was (these are DSis's words, sorry) "jailbait". Middle DSis is stunningly attractive. It used to give DM an "in" with the group.

DSis told me recently that during this period, her and DM would engage in what is tantamount to an orgy with the group. The details are horrific. DSis lost her virginity during all of this. She also witnessed DM in hideous situations.

I knew DM had slept with members of the group, but I didn't know any of these details until recently.

Anyway, when I came home for uni holidays, middle DSis broke down and told me all about how DM was blackmailing her into not telling DF. Saying DF would think DSis was a slut etc. So I decided that I would tell DF, and I did. DM told DF I was mad and a liar and that I wanted him all to myself and that it was all lies. Luckily I had all the letters she had written to me at university to back me up.

What followed was the divorce from hell. DF was devastated and humiliated and while he was grateful to me for telling him, basically he left our home town and met and married another woman as quick as he could.

DM continued shagging around town with young blokes of around my age, many of whom I knew, with Middle DSis in tow, whereas i felt I had to stay at home and make sure Little DSis (who was 12) was properly looked after.

So I left university after my first year and got a job in a shop.

After a year or so of this, DM met my stepdad, who is her own age. She settled down and eventually they got married and opened a pub together. They became pillars of the community, known to allm and you would never know any of this had ever happened. But inside I had lost all respect for her and was constantly angry. every time I tried to explain why, she would say "not that old chestnut again" and that it was just a temporary phase she was now over.

In the decade that followed, she slowly drained the rest of my life away from me. I tried to escape lots of times once LittleDSis when to uni. I moved to London for a while, then tried to get a flat in a nearby town, and finally one in our own town. Every time, DM convinced me I couldn't do it, that i had no idea about paying bills or taking care of myself. The last flat, she found its previous tenants when they came into the pub and delighted in telling me what a mistake I was making because it was in a rough area and full of slugs. I felt like an idiot and pulled out of it.

Middle DSis went down and downhill. She struggled with addiction and went from abusive boyfriend to abusive boyfriend. She hasn't held down a job ever and is definitely the "scapegoat" of our family. LittleDSis is the golden child. DM copies everything she does, has the same tattoos and does her hair identically. Everything she's into, DM trails after her, posing about being the cool mum.

I met DH online and moved out. I had DS1 shortly after, and for years I thought having him had repaired my relationship with DM, but looking back, I'd just papered over some whopping cracks. All that shit manifested itself in a fear that DM thought she could be a better parent than me. I hated her pushing him in his pushchair even!

As it turned out, DS1 has SN and so it's been tough and stressful sorting his needs and education out properly. But everything I do, DM is stepping in, talking for me, sorting things out, making me feel as though she thinks she can do it better. She even joined his school parents' group on Facebook and talks about me on there as if I'm an idiot child.

These days, I'm just seething with rage underneath all the time I'm with DM and I hate it. She gets upset all the time because I am snappy and cold. Since I had PND this is eating me up and I don't know what to do. Middle DSis doesn't want me to say anything to DM about what she told me and I won't but how do I deal with this?

This is so epically long. Thanks if you've read this far. I feel good for having actually "said" it out loud. My family are so fucked up.

gbuk I have only realized myself in the last few days how bad things were for me and trying to come to terms with it. I don't feel capable of giving advice at the moment but there will be others on here who will be able to help.

I can say that everyone will understand and will not judge. We are all in the same boat and here to help each other.

I understand the wanting approval. I will give you a big 'well done'. You have raised 4 children who are doing well.

Would you be able to sew, knit or crochet for charity? I can't think of which charities at the moment but I am sure I have read somewhere. Do local hospital want little cardigans for the prem babies.

Yes, it's draining indeed.

I do feel conflicted though. I'm sure she was blindsided by my outburst. It really came out of nowhere. She's old - over 80 - and doesn't deserve to be yelled at. I haven't really done myself any favours have I? I don't usually feel this amount of regret for my actions where she's concerned.

I'm going to tell her I'm not going to bother cancelling the flight. I really can't be bothered.

bravo I;ve read this but have to go to bed (an hour ahead of the UK here) but didnt want to read and run.

in short it sounds like your mother doesn't have a life of her own. She sounds like she actually doesn't exist. She seems to be 100% living through her children. She's playing games to an appalling extent but she seems to be lying about 'only ever wanting to be a mum' because all she's done is live out a teenage live to the extreme without any restraint .... and none of it belongs to her.

She sounds an incarnation of insecurity.

How to deal with it? Ouf. Very very difficult. I don't think you have to mention Middle Sis's stuff (your father divorced her without mentioning Middle Sis to her?) I do think that: -

You need skilled therapy with an experinced therapist becuase actually you've never had a mother. You had someone who gave birth to you and who couldnt ever bear for you to outshine her because then she would be nothing.

I think you need to gradually step back from her. She's taking over your life and it's not her place. I think you need to stop telling her about meetings about your DS, and stop telling her the place and time. Talk to the people arranging the meetings and tell them to only inform you.

Your mother is exceptionally volatile and you're going to have to face that there's going to be explosions of rage and all sorts of nastiness - accusations, trying to get in touch with teachers over your head, undercutting you. You need to plan how to deal with that. A pragmatic therapist or even mumsnet can help you with that.

By the way, dont be too sure that people don't see through her. at a guess you might find quiet support when you don't expect it ... though you will have to hold the line here. How does your partner feel about her?

You are entirely right to try to take your life back from her. Also, read Mothers Who Can't Love by Susan Forward. it's unusually good.

private oh dear, over 80. then maybe tell her that the flight is still there for her if she wants it.

But don't regret the outburst. To have said it once was important for you. That it came so late is the way the cards fall and sometimes, the rooks come home to roost; you've not said categorically "I'm never speaking to you again" and the door is still open if she wants to walk through it. It is not up to you to bend over backwards nad become a doormat that she can tread on on her way in to visit.

Sorry, I didn't mean to drip feed about her age. I was blindsided too. I've held it together for a few years now, mainly because she's getting on and the visits are much less frequent now. But something triggered my rage. And you're right, I can't be her doormat, but the effort required to avoid it is, as you say, so draining.

Anyway thanks for your input, it's a great help.

Good night.

privatematter,

Its not possible to have any sort of relationship with a narcissist.

I would not regret your outburst either; she deserved that.

She being over 80 is no excuse for her behaviours which are certainly toxic. That also shows me that age has not mellowed her; young toxic people/parents become old toxic people/parents. They also make out for being crap grandparent figures as well. She has not fundamentally altered in terms of personality.

I would not blame you at all for acting as you did. She will do you a favour by not visiting, you need the peace and quiet. NC can feel extreme but if low contact is really not working out as you thought it would, then that is an option ultimately.

Thanks Attila. It helps to hear that I shouldn't regret my outburst because that's what's really chewing me up at the moment. I know her age shouldn't really be a factor in how I proceed but the reality is that it does. It just wouldn't work for me to cut her off, I could not cope with feeling so hard and cruel. Although nc with father has been absolutely the right thing for me, it's always tinged with regret and a certain sense of failure. I think the impact on me personally if I were to lose both parents in this way would be worse than the tiny amount of contact I currently have. Yes, I know I know, at the moment I'm feeling worse than I have for a long time. I think one answer is to do some work on myself and deal with the memories this has stirred up. NC with mother would be just too final.

I've not posted on here for a long time but often read the statelyhome thread.

I love my gardening, although a bit of bank holiday digging left me with a sore back! so I wanted to share a bit of gardening analogy that really helps me.

When you go NC or LC with your dysfunctional family(as is my case) it is like nature is helping you. It is like you cut off the old bad wood and grow into a new tree. It is like nature's way of renewing. By fracturing the old dysfunctional family, you can start afresh with your own family and not be harmed by the old infected family.

To do this your new plant needs lots of looking after and support to get stronger and stronger and most importantly not be replanted back in the old family.
I also find info from the stand alone charity very helpful standalone.org.uk/about/

"It just wouldn't work for me to cut her off, I could not cope with feeling so hard and cruel".

FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) are but three of many damaging legacies left by such people like your mother to their unfortunate offspring. Your outburst towards her was unexpected but that is also because she expected you to play your role and tow the line again. This time you did not, that was all the years of holding it in together coming out.

Ye but she has done that to you in the past; withheld her so called "approval" (approval perhaps that you even now still seek from her).
She probably does not feel herself either hard or cruel for doing that and that is because she is at heart unreasonable and dysfunctional.

Its of no surprise to me at all that she married and separated from someone like your dad. Narcissistic women cannot do relationships at all so they either meet someone just like them (narcissistic) or are long gone.

private you aren't rambling and it's not ridiculous. It can be like dealing with an overgrown toddler, can't it? I have also had the experience of exploding. In my case my fruitcake of a mother simply pretended it hadn't happened, which was crazy making. I think the rage is a good thing, in that it's absolutely correct and healthy to feel anger and indignation at how you've been treated, but sadly you aren't going to get the validation and care you need from DM. You say she doesn't deserve to be yelled at. But I think that's kind of the wrong question. Is it understandable that you yelled? Yes!

Bananas it does sound like a coping mechanism to shut down your feelings. And also if that's what your family does to you then you learn to do it to yourself. Which is really sad but not irreversible. Counselling does help with this as it allows you to make sense of your feelings in a safe and compassionate space.

RJ to add to my previous post and what pp have said, another reason for minimising is that we hope we are right. When I started talking about my family in therapy I really hoped my therapist was going to tell me I was wrong and I had nothing to complain about.

gbuk I'm glad you came over. Sadly you have been made the family scapegoat. It is hard to articulate it to others isn't it? Because the things they do can sometimes sound not so bad in isolation, when really if you look at the bigger picture they are that bad - because it's all part of an ongoing insidious attack on your very self. When you are treated as if you are somehow not good enough, it is very harmful and hurtful.

Bravo I think the place to start is to ask yourself: if you could do whatever you wanted from now, and nobody would mind, what would you do? Also Meerka has given terrific advice.

I'm going to write my own stuff in a separate post as this is getting long.

So I've been NC for a couple of years now and I seem to have moved past the FOG stage and into feeling sad. I'm starting to really notice what I don't have. Someone I know was talking about the women in their family the other day and saying something like "Smith women are known for being strong-minded" and I thought wow, she identifies with her family in a way that's never even occurred to me. I have no idea what that's like.

It's lonely isn't it. Nothing can replace that sense of family. I find also that it's lonely because there is no one who I share a childhood with now. It's a heavy sadness in life.

baytree i like your analogy. It does feel like sometimes you have to re-train the tree out of the bad old growth patterns you had to adopt to survive!

Hi everyone < waves >

Sorry to read that so many of us are struggling with family problems

My update - some of you will recall that I am NC with my parents ( initiated by them ) , my father died about 8 weeks ago and I only found out through a chance encounter with an old neighbour . My family have still not notified me about his death and I was preparing myself for a letter from a lawyer .

Today is one of my childrens birthdays and my family sent a birthday card to the child ( under 12 ) letting him know of his grandfathers death . You'll be pleased to know that I open anything that comes from them and he won't ever see the card

He's never met them BTW so won't be upset . But I thought it was a rather shitty and typical thing of them to do, to tell a little boy on his birthday , and me via my child.

What fascinates me about this thread is the patterns of behaviour that are so familiar to us all. Being sulked at for months for daring to stand up to or correct a parent. Being belittled and sneered at for being 'poncey' or grand for having a normal life. Being made to jump through hoops for the occasional spot of babysitting. Being told that a sibling was always better at something we do in life.

God Stacey, that one really wins a prize. It's so good that your DC have you to filter out the toxicity. Hope you have something and someone to help you filter it out for you too.

I agree last line

There must be a handbook somewhere , for narc parents

Called something like " how to fuck up your kids but make them think it's their own fault, while still keeping up appearances "

Stacey That's awful. You poor thing. Well, if you needed any confirmation that NC is the way forward with your family then there it is!

Bravo I don't have any advice, only offering you and hoping you are ok today.

Stacey - "Happy birthday, your granddad's dead". Brilliant. You couldn't make it up, could you?!

Bravo Welcome. What a horrific upbringing you and your sisters have endured. I'm so sorry your dad was useless in protecting you all. Very shocking to hear about the sexual abuse of your sister and it's no surprise she has now been drawn into abusive relationships.

At this point I think you need to tend to your own needs and stop trying to accept responsibility for your whole family. the first thing I would do would be to sharply limit contact with your DS - no unsupervised visits and in fact I would probably not want to expose him to her at all.

Have you thought about therapy? A therapist rather than a counsellor would probably be best. You might have to try several before finding one who's a good fit for you.

I would also recommend "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw and "When you and your mother can't be friends" (can't remember author, sorry.)

You might also find some of Alice Miller's work beneficial although it can be pretty hard-going.

Lowflying So you were the scapegoat and your brother the golden child. Now you have children and your DS is the golden child and your mother shows no interest in your DD. History is repeating itself. It sounds simplistic to say that your mother hates women, but look at the evidence...

I think now would be an ideal time to start detaching from both your parents.

private I feel for you. It seems hard and cruel to cut someone off at your mother's age; on the other hand why should she get away with treating you like shit just because she's spent more decades doing it than anyone else?

wow...just....WOW!! I've only just started reading the thread from the beginning and so much of it resonates so well with me. I thought (in a nutshell) that it was all me having unrealistic expectations that caused me to be such an outsider. Just read the last few posts on this page

lastlines Being belittled and sneered at for being 'poncey' or grand for having a normal life. Being made to jump through hoops for the occasional spot of babysitting So true in my experience although the things said were/are said in a normal tone (they just sounded sneerey in my head IYSWIM) and I think it is the use of normal intonation that contributes to me feeling what they are saying must be right, if they are talking so ordinarily and I am hearing it differently then it must be me who's got it wrong

peppermintcrayon I too have no idea what it is like to identify with my family, I always, always feel out of step and just plain wrong, like trying to wear a size 4 shoe on a size six foot - along with knowing it's my fault for not choosing the right size. Or does that just sound daft? I have so much rolling round in my head and can't seem to put it into the right words.

gbuk The older the parent the longer we have put up with their behaviour so not surprising that the last straw comes when they are elderly.

Stacey Am speechless! Have only been on this thread since the weekend and each time I think I can't hear anything worse someone proves me wrong. Is it any wonder people in real life don't understand if we are are shocked.

It can be like dealing with an overgrown toddler, can't it? That is my mum! Add the whiney voice to it as well just to make even more pathetic.

how to fuck up your kids but make them think it's their own fault, while still keeping up appearances My mum was always so welcoming to my friends when I was still living at home . They all thought she was wonderful.

pocketsaviur

Your comment to Lowflying So you were the scapegoat and your brother the golden child. Now you have children and your DS is the golden child and your mother shows no interest in your DD. History is repeating itself. It sounds simplistic to say that your mother hates women, but look at the evidence... I know not quite the same - Although my DN is the golden grandchild my DD was definitely rated above my DS. He was just a naughty little boy - they would not listen to me saying that he had to be kept active otherwise he would go stir crazy. He is 16 and still remembers the second and last time (he was only about 6) my DC stayed there. In fact both my DC refused to go after that - as much as my DD hated the holiday clubs she decided they were better than going to he grandparents.