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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Lies - what do I do?

97 replies

notthisagain1 · 20/03/2015 23:14

Hi all
I need to post about something I found out today but am a bit worried that my h might come across this thread if he googles some of the pertinent words I am going to use. I know there is the other place but I think the traffic is better and more relationships orientated here, and I really need as many opinions as possible!
Silly question, but if I mention the name of a website - will this thread come up when people are googling the actual website?

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 20/03/2015 23:37

Highly unlikely, but you could always spell it out separately, mis-spell it or use numbers, like "g00gle" or "a d u l t w o r k".

I have to say if you're worried that your H might try googling to find your mumsnet advice thread, you might be in the wrong marriage Hmm

MelonBallersAreStrange · 21/03/2015 00:04

Why would he be googling a website he already uses?

Why would it matter if he found a thread where you asked about the website?

If you have to start a thread in relationships about it then it must be something more suspicious sounding than ChintzyCountryAntiques.com, right, so what would be the problem with asking people about it?

I'm going to bed in a minute, so I'm going to answer a question in advance that my crystal ball says you might ask later:

There are no viruses that will sign you up to hookup sites or sexy webcam sites or the local library or MN when you accidentally click on a link when looking at some porn.

If by some amazing and pointless advance in cybercrime this really has happened to your H, for real, you must call the police IMMEDIATELY, don't wait for him to do it tomorrow.

Is your username meaningful?

AlternativeTentacles · 21/03/2015 00:06

What they said. And yes, it probably means he is having an affair, trying to shag other women or watching porn. Or all 3.

ImperialBlether · 21/03/2015 00:12

Do you know where the hidden place is here, OP? It's not searchable.

notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 00:37

Thank you. I am not worried that he will google to find my advice, but more that he might come across it by mistake.

Here goes anyway. Should preface by saying that one of the things h does is rent out some properties - as well as do others up and sell them on.

At Christmas, I found out that my h had bought a retail premises around 9 months previously. Worse still he had lied to my face about it when I came across a legal document about it during the summer saying that he had been about to buy it but that the purchase had not gone through (Hmm) or some such ridiculous story.

When I found out at Christmas that he actually had bought the property, he was not sorry at all but defensive, and maintained that he had been trying or was in the process of trying to get out of the sale but had not been able to HmmHmm. The property is not far from where we live but he has never taken either the dc or me there. He is not open about what he wants to do with it long term (I think it is sitting empty - it's a shop - but who knows). He was talking about having money problems a while back and I said about selling this property (believing that this is what he wanted to do as the purchase was apparently a mistake) - that phonecall ended with him hanging up. On another occasion (there was a context) I told him I had lost trust in him ever since the shop incident and he told me I was "off my head".

The result of this is that I try not to think about this shop but feel sad / wary / alone / mistrustful when I do.

Fast forward to now and I recently had to talk to h's accountant about some figures. H himself had asked me to ring him to see what else the accountant needed as he had semi fallen out with him (or seemed to). So I asked the accountant what he needed and he said the figures relating to capital gains. I asked capital gains for what? He said for the sale of a particular property that to my knowledge h still owned. I knew that at various times h had tried to sell it but that's all. I asked the accountant when that sale was made and he said he didn't know - I am guessing realising at this point that I knew nothing about it and backtracking.

So I got off the phone and asked h about it. He said the accountant did not know what he was talking about and that capital gains had nothing to do with the figures needed. He said that the property in question was now in the process of having an offer made upon it but he did not know if it was going to go through as past offers had often fallen through (this part is true). He also said that the people buying it might also want another property of his and that he was going to offer them both at a particular price. I said it was odd for the accountant to be talking about capital gains when the figures we were talking about were for 2013 / 2014 but h glossed over this saying that he (the accountant) was trying to cover his own inefficiency. A couple of days later I again said that the capital gains thing did not make sense in any case because of the years in question, but h remained silent.

I knew I could go on the land registry website to find out who now owns this house but a. I was not sure of the address and b. having been through this before with the above shop I know how traumatic it feels and preferred to shove it to the back of my mind.

However today I asked h about the sale of this house saying had it gone through? He said he did not know and would have to go to the town in question. I said but surely if it had gone through there would be an exchange etc? He said yes but somebody else was dealing with it.

So I then (h was away at the time) finally got hold of the address of the property. Then looked on zoopla which said that the property was sold in 2013. Also then checked on the land registry which said that the owner was somebody other than h. The price they paid for the property was the same as that mentioned on zoopla.

I phoned h and said what I knew but without mentioning zoopla or the land registry. He said that it hadn't been sold but had been almost sold on some occasions. I said that this was not true and he then became defensive asking me what my game was and other aggressive sounding stuff. Still saying that he had not sold the property. (This is a rough approximation of the conversation as I can't remember all of it). I explained that the conversation with the accountant had made me think something was up and that I had looked on zoopla (I did not mention the land registry). At this point roughly h was a bit silent and then said harshly that I (meaning me - the OP) can do what I like - he doesn't care - or words to that effect. I said it was not that I wanted to do something but that I wanted to know why he had not said anything about the sale of this house. That its sale had always been on the cards so why hadn't he told me. It went silent then, I said I had to have my lunch and h hung up on me.

So since h did not actually admit the sale and said a few times that it is under offer now, I am left questioning myself. The evidence from the conversation with the accountant, zoopla and the land registry seems to point in one direction but it is very difficult to actually believe that someone is lying to you in the way that h seemed to be today. Is there some way I could be wrong and that the property is actually under offer now? I checked the leasehold title on the land registry site but not the freehold register. The leasehold title was for the amount mentioned on zoopla, but might the freehold register hold some other information that would mean h is not lying?

The thing which kind of gets me the most is that I heard h on the phone to the accountant the other day talking about capital gains. He was in the other room but not exactly keeping his voice down. Does he think I am so stupid / clueless as to hear that kind of conversation but not put two and two together? Unless they were talking about projected figures for 2014 / 2015 (if the sale which h says is happening is actually really happening now but then how do I explain the other stuff) Confused?

I did not realise this was going to be so long. Thank you for reading this far. H has come home this evening after being away since Tuesday, and as I knew was going to happen, has not spoken to me. My body is aching all over with the stress of this and I am worried about getting through this weekend in the sense that h won't be speaking, I won't either as I have no idea what to do now, and I will feel terrible while he is super affectionate with our 3 dc.

OP posts:
notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 00:41

Sorry, I cross posted with the other messages as it took me so long to write my post.

As you can see the lying is not related to another woman but to property / money. However it does make me feel that he could, at any point in the 19 years we have been together, have lied about another woman.

I know the other place is not searchable imperial but I guess I will stay here as there are always more people around. Thank you Smile.

OP posts:
whitsernam · 21/03/2015 00:45

Does your H control all the money in your household? Are you worried he's squirreling some away for just himself? What you describe sounds odd, so I'm trying to figure out what might be behind the odd behaviour. I really don't get why he asked you to call the accountant if he doesn't want you to know about something financial!! And why wouldn't he want you to know?!! Guess I'd be just as astonished/upset as you are. And what's with the silent treatment? Something is wrong in the relationship besides just this one possible sale.

Crazyqueenofthecatladies · 21/03/2015 00:48

So h means husband? But he won't let you know about what property you own as a family, what tax you must pay, or what is bought and sold in your names. Oh and he's fallen out with his cough incompetent accountant, and discussions about his financial and tax affairs end in arguments? He sounds like an utterly fraudulent shyster. With psychological problems.

tartyflette · 21/03/2015 01:02

Do you think dodgy is going on, like tax evasion or fraud? if you are worried about your own financial position seeing a solicitor might help. Is the property likely to be owned jointly with anyone else (and so could be in their name?) and does he have business partners?

tartyflette · 21/03/2015 01:02

...something... dodgy, that is.

Tiptops · 21/03/2015 01:05

It is disturbing that he can lie so blatantly. How dare he take you for a complete idiot. He is a compulsive liar, sulking and giving the silent treatment when he has been caught out. He is frustrated at you for sussing him out, instead of seeing the real issue is his own lies and deceit.

I would be gathering as much paperwork relating to your assets and properties as possible now.

Someone who is capable of such lies will make you doubt the whole relationship and your own sanity.

notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 01:07

whitsernam H owns all the properties including our family home (though I separately own a flat jointly with my sister). I have asked him if I can be on the deeds to the family home but he has always refused. He does control the whole property, mortgage, bills side of things which I do not like and have railed against but to no avail. In the past he has said that if I want my own property I should work for it. During the 6 years before we had dc the money that I earned paid for food which is a contribution Hmm. We then had 3 dc in 4.5 years and I have been a SAHM since then (this has to change, am always being blindsided by things like the above argument with h however which take my focus off me and what I should be doing, not that that's an excuse) which is also a contribution but I think h thinks I have an easy life at his expense.

I am guessing that he did not tell me about the sale of this property as it is at around this time that I started asking about being on the deeds and complaining about having no say over anything. I suppose not telling me would give him leeway to do what he wants with the money (which in any case I assume would have been sucked up by the existing mortgage).

Yes it is weird that he got me to phone the accountant and it makes me wonder if he is telling the truth about this property.

Yes the silent treatment is not nice. He used to do it a lot more. There are things wrong with our "relationship", but I thought things had got better even though he is never affectionate with me and this is a massive pointer I think.

crazy thanks your post cheered me up Grin

OP posts:
notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 01:15

Sorry, I missed the other messages.

tartyflette no he doesn't have a partner and the name on the deeds is not one I recognise but who knows. I don't know if something dodgy is going on.

He is frustrated at you for sussing him out, instead of seeing the real issue is his own lies and deceit. Yes I agree with thistiptops, and I do feel taken for a complate idiot. I am also doubting myself.

OP posts:
notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 01:16

that was supposed to be tiptops in bold

OP posts:
Tiptops · 21/03/2015 01:37

Work for your own property indeed Hmm

So he is financially abusive, belittling your contributions to the family and withholding control of money from you. Emotionally abusive with his sulking and manipulation. Then withholding affection too.

What positive contribution does he actually bring to your life, lovely? Not just to the children, but to you alone? If he is a decent father his relationship with his children will be maintained by him regardless of whether you remain with him or not.

The lies and deceit will be insidious to the relationship because you'll now probably be second guessing almost every aspect of the past few years spent with him. It really saddened me to see you trying to believe the best case scenario was possible and it had all been a mix up. You sound lovely and kind. Yet instead of relieving your worries and doubts he has continued to spin you a line.

If he was holding his hands up to a monumental mistake I would be advising caution, but he hasn't even admitted to the problem so there is no opportunity to move forward in a way that is beneficial to you.

whitsernam · 21/03/2015 01:47

tiptops says it waaay better than I possibly could... I second her post.

SugarOnTop · 21/03/2015 02:00

He sounds like an utterly fraudulent shyster. With psychological problems Grin i second that!

he's taking you for a fool. i think it's high time you started doing your own investigative work and finding out EVERYTHING about ALL his properties, money/accounts and exactly what is going on. Get your own legal advice on this. he could be/has been using your name on fraudulent deals for all you know and could land you in hot water.

don't worry so much about the deeds - you're married so in the eventual case of a split ALL his assets/properties/money will be considered as joint family assets and split accordingly and according to need.

stop believing all his lies and avoidance and start taking control back. personally i think he's a lying, manipulating, arrogant, two-faced narcissistic twat and you can do much better.

SensationalGirl · 21/03/2015 02:00

Oh I know who you are. You absolutely must go see someone professional who will help you with this. He could sell your house from under you and you wouldn't even know it. You have rights. Find out what they are and enforce them.

notthisagain1 · 21/03/2015 07:35

he could be/has been using your name on fraudulent deals for all you know and could land you in hot water

This has worried me a bit sugarontop - could you give me some examples of the kind of thing he could put my name to? That would be ironic wouldn't it - given that my name is resolutely not on any property. I don't think he would do something like this but who knows. Once a lie about anything is uncovered it changes your perception of everything.

Even more of a metaphorical slap in the face is the fact that I think there would be tax benefits to him if our names were jointly on some of the properties (at the moment and to my knowledge there are 5 including our home) or if only my name were on one / some of them? Shows how much he wants to be solely in charge for him not to consider this.

He could sell your house from under you Shock. This is a shocking thought sensational (and yes it's not the first time I have posted about h - sigh). I don't think he would do this but again you never know. I know that I could declare my interest in the property we live in with the land registry but that would be like a red rag to a bull and I would only do it if we were getting divorced (which is looking like a possibility - the endless subterfuge and lack of affection/communication is getting a bit boring Angry!).

personally i think he's a lying, manipulating, arrogant, two-faced narcissistic twat and you can do much better. thanks for that, that's made me feel better too Grin.

You sound lovely and kind. Thanks also for this tiptops. In some ways I have more access to cash (though we have separate accounts) than h who works very hard and who does pay for everything bills wise (while I pay for food and everything dc related) so in this sense he is not ungenerous. It's mainly that had I thought a bit more rationally when we were first together I would have realised that I want a much more equal and communicative relationship than this one. I worry about later though when we are older and if I am still dependent on h yet he still holds all the strings. It really is a terrible thought and I guess the answer lies in trying to become financially independent or less dependent anyway as soon as possible. H also refuses to discuss having wills or life insurance which is another thing that worries me.

Thanks for your posts as I think I am seeing things more clearly.

OP posts:
Hidingmyidentity · 21/03/2015 07:54

If you want to double check on the sale of the property use nethouseprices.co.uk it will give you the date & price. They use the land registry figures.

It is very odd that he would lie about something that is so easy to verify.

You are right about the tax benefits of some of the rental property being in your name. Your personal tax allowance could be used to reduce the tax bill considerably. I bet his accountant has already told him this.

NeitherHereOrThere · 21/03/2015 07:55

It sounds like a crap relationship with the lies, deceit, lack of affection and financial abuse.

My advice is to make copies of everything you come across and keep in a safe place (at a relative's?).

Remember that should you decide to end the marriage, you will be entitled to at least 50% (if not more) of all the assets.

43percentburnt · 21/03/2015 07:58

Hi

The land registry is rarely wrong. It certainly appears that it has been sold.

I really suggest you do some digging and evidence collation. If you divorce I would be tempted to use a forensic accountant.

I am the main earner in our house my dh is a sahd - he has equal access to everything. The savings are in his name for tax efficiency. The fact nothing is in your name despite having a 10k tax allowance (less rental income) and the fact his accountant would advise tax efficiency suggests his money is nothing to do with you.

It would have lots more to do with you if you divorce.

Hidingmyidentity · 21/03/2015 07:59

Sorry that website should read nethouseprices.com.

43percentburnt · 21/03/2015 08:02

It is relatively easy to take out debt in a loved ones name. However go onto noddle.co.uk and get a free credit report for yourself.

He's a liar, a crap, lazy liar (getting you to ring his accountant). It's a trait I'm sure you are finding increasingly unattractive.

Look after yourself and the kids. If you initiate divorce listen for his whine about how the properties can stay in his name for the 'children's future'...

CitySnicker · 21/03/2015 08:24

This other property; could he have set up a significant other in her own house / shop then panicked and sold it?
He sounds v dodgy btw. Start collecting info on what you can.