Worried about dd

[loupylou2u]

I've name changed for this as it's quite specific and will out me if anyone I know reads it.

My dd is 15 and has recently joined a kind of club where she has found a new hobby which she loves and is progressing extremely well with.

She has a kind of mentor there who is a man the same age as me. He was married, has a DS from a previous relationship and is in a relationship.

Dd has become quite close to him. He's training her so obviously they spend a lot of time together, and he has started giving her a lift home sometimes, as well as helping her with a subject she struggles with at school. This takes place at our house so I'm always around.

They chat on an instant messaging app too, and use a chat group related to the activity that they do.

I feel a little uneasy. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable. I feel that feeling uneasy about it sounds horrible because he's helping her. I'm grateful that he looks out for her and that he uses some of his spare time to help her.

She has self esteem issues and anxiety issues and feels able to talk to him about things that she can't talk to me about. I feel that this makes her vulnerable.

Once again, I don't know if this makes me unreasonable but if my husband was behaving like this with a 15yo girl I wouldn't like it.

The club that she goes to welcomes me, I have met and chatted with staff and I'm confident that she is well supervised there. It helps her calm down when she's anxious, helps build her confidence and makes her happy. I don't want to take that away from her.

Any thoughts appreciated, even if only to point me in the direction of my grip.

OP - you need to know this. Some sexual predators groom the parents of their victim too - the 'family friend', the 'helper' of their dc, the 'coming in for coffees'. Be very wary.

'Grooming', I believe, literally means befriending. People that have worked with/studied sexual predators, talk of them 'grooming' probation officers and the like. Convincing them they mean no harm etc etc. It is shocking and disconcerting - but these people are predators and can be v clever. That's not to mean every person being kind and nurturing to young people is like this- more that predatory people will exploit situations just like this - vulnerable teen, befriend the parents - and so on. Beware, and don't let your daughter be alone with him. If he's genuine, this will not bother him in the slightest.

Just to offer another perspective...

When I was 16, and in a very, very vulnerable position, a male teacher reached out to me and offered me an enormous amount of support. I spent most of my breaks and free time with him, as he was helping me out with stuff.

He never, ever did anything inappropriate in any way, and his help for me that year literally changed my life.

I feel a bit sad to think that today he might hesitate to reach out to me in case people got the wrong idea.

No, no, no, no, no.

I'm a teacher and have been a youth worker.

When it comes to young people you DO NOT:

• spend time alone with them;
• give regular lifts (I might do this is an emergency but I'd take another member of staff along);
• engage in private messaging in this kind of chatty way.

You just don't do it.

Basically, if he's doing these things he shouldn't be. Don't excuse it away - the very best case scenario is that he is ignorant of basic safeguarding rules (in which case I wouldn't trust him to look after my DD properly anyway) and the worst case scenario doesn't bear thinking about.

Another thought on the " tutoring " . You said that this man is helping your daughter " because these are his best subjects " . No one who was eg good at chemistry at school 20 years ago , can be " tutoring " a 15 yo with the current GCSE curriculum .

The courses change all the time , it's hard enough for teachers to keep up . Someone who has a degree in chemistry won't know the requirements of the course your DD is studying now, let alone someone who was good at chemistry at school 20 years ago .

If you think she needs a tutor in the subjects she struggles with , get her one. One who is qualified and experienced . It's not the same as a parent helping a child out with revision .

OP - you also mentioned that there is a national championship in this activity . In that case there will be an organising or governing body that your childs club must be affiliated to . They will almost certainly have rules about safeguarding .

It's quite unusual for a child who has just taken up a " new hobby recently " to be on the verge of competing at a national level .its also unusual for a coach to go going on about the childs " self esteem " . Usually they want to child to compete to win /do well/win points . This makes me concerned that this coach is " talking up " your daughters performance to keep her involved for his own inappropriate reasons .

Do you have any evidence that your DD is ready to compete at a national level ? Is she winning all the competitions at her club and performing well at regional or county level ? have you seen the national ranking lists for her age group ?

How often does she go to competitions / events outside her club ?

OP, before talking to the manager and possibly shredding this man's reputation, maybe you should talk to him. Tell him it doesn't look appropriate and it would be better if the lifts were stopped. Tell him you think the messaging is inappropriate.

If he is a groomer then he'll be warned off. If he's just a kind person wanting to help he'll realise how it could look.

Mythical, I think suggesting that she is somehow responsible for ensuring this guy is guilty before taking action is not ideal. This man is clearly acting contrary to guidelines, those guidelines are widely available and understood. There is no 'shredding' associated with reporting facts to the proper place, there is no suggestion that she should speculate on his motives, just respond to the facts at hand.

I dont agree with talking to him directly.

If he is totally innocent (but stupidly naive) then he may well not handle being approached directly well as he wont have the knowledge to recognise where he went wrong.

This should be handled by the organisation. Dealing with the organisation rather than the individual will highlight that either their child protection policies arent robust enough or that they arent being communicated well enough.

If he is a groomer then either he will carry on with OP's DD but get more secretive or he will move on to someone else.

There isnt a spotters guide for potential abusers. The slavering perverts have already been found out. What we tend to have left in society are the ones who's behaviour is more disguised. The cunning, the borderline who will create a situation then take advantage of it.

Anyone who works with children should know there are rules. Either he hasnt been properly trained or he is deliberately flouting the rules.

Absolutely agree with Gnome. The point of rules, policies, procedures etc is to make it easier to know how to approach these situations. You are not prejudging this man, you are simply highlighting a set of behaviours that seem to go against conventional child protection policies. Raise it with the club and let them handle it, keeping you informed of course. If nothing else it will be a good refresher for them on how to deal with this stuff.

OP You are not " shredding this mans reputation " . What a ridiculous thing to say , mythical .

OP - You are protecting your daughter .

You are helping the organisation by pointing out that either their policies and training are inadequate, or that their supervision leaves much to be desired.

You are protecting other children from this mans inappropriate conduct .

You are protecting other parents from this worry and stress.

Mythical - you are projecting your feelings about your father onto this man . It's Unhelpful . You are the only poster on this thread who says that his behaviour is ok . You can give no logical reason why it's ok for this man to flout all the guidelines- simply that you dad was a good man and didn't abuse kids ( to your knowledge) so this man must be too .

If the man is as innocent as you are CONVINCED he is, why wouldnt he want to know what the guidelines are and how he should be following them ? Doesn't a good coach want to protect the children in his club and the clubs reputation ?

Another 'been there' post I'm afraid (and unjustifiably ashamed) to say. As a 17/18 year old I had a teacher who crossed the line. Keeping details brief so as not to out myself but it was someone I really looked up to and respected so it honestly didn't occur to me at the time that anything was wrong. It didn't progress beyond hand holding, cuddles and the odd mouth kiss so I guess I was lucky, but when I think back (which I try not to do because it gives me an overwhelmingly icky feeling) I'm very angry about the position he put me in. There's great advice here about investigating the club rules and using that as the basis for a conversation. Whether his intentions are honourable or not, the instant messaging is inarguably inappropriate and I'd knock that on the head ASAP.

Hi OP

It's impossible to know whether this chaps intentions are honourable or not ( although they most likely will be).

However I, as previous posters have said, want to point out that any organisation which has Young a People as members will/should have a safeguarding policy. I volunteer as a Leader Ina. youth organisation and you might be interested to know that one of the things we are specifically forbidden to do is offer lifts to individual members, that stands whether they are 6 or 17 years old. Under some circ we are permitted to convey children in pairs or more although this is discouraged.

I suspect this chap feels good about helping your DD and things have progressed gradually, however from what you have described the boundaries have become blurred, the lifts, the instant messaging ( particularly outside of the social media the group uses as a whole) send off alarm bells for me. It needs addressing as even assuming he has only good intentions he is placing himself in a very vulnerable position. He is also inadvertently encouraging feelings onthe part of your DD.

I think if I were you I would have a quiet low key discussion with whoever runs this group, express how pleaded you are with DD's progress etc but explain you feel this chap might be placing himself Ina. Vulnerable situation. See how that is received ( hopefully sensibly with an agreed action plan).

I haven't said it's ok. I said it should be monitored. Presumably the lifts were given with the consent of OP.

This man has no idea that the OP is suddenly uncomfortable with his behaviour. He's been in her home, perhaps he sees himself as a family friend.

It seems only fair to me to talk to him directly first.

Mythical - this man is almost certainly breaking the club rules . These are made to protect children and vulnerable adults

Surely it's the job of the club to monitor how he behaves - not the parent of a member

If a teacher was incorrectly marking your childs homework - constantly making serious errors in their subject - wouldn't you contact the school ? Or would you just decide that you should just monitor it and count the numbers of marks they incorrectly gave or deducted from your Childs homework ?

Wouldn t you worry about your Childs education suffering while you monitored the situation ?

And how would you monitor their teaching when you were not in school all day? Marking homework is just a fraction of a teachers job .

In fact I assume you would conclude that the teacher had some serious training needs which needed to be addressed by their line manager and that you couldnt fix this yourself . And that some additional support would hopefully make them be a better teacher for everyone they teach , not just your child .

I'm sure the OP is concerned about other children too - not just her own . Her " monitoring things " won't help them .

And BTW this isnt about the OPs "uncomfortable feelings " . It's about this mans actions and the potential risk to this child and almost certainly others . I'm sure the Ops DD isn't the first child he has shown such special treatment to /interest in and she won't be the last .

Mythical - I understand that you feel strongly about protecting the adult and not the child here, presumably because of your father. I also understand that you do not agree with me . But I wanted to address your points because there may be other people reading this thread who have smilar concerns about another child .

OP - I hope you get a helpful response from the club

Hi. I got very uneasy with the lifts home alone bit. I would never allow my daughter to be alone with an adult man regularly in such an un monitored environment . I am worried that the coach is willing to do this as it goes against all protection advice and he probably knows this. That he is willing to do this is of great concern to me.

Also chatting online together - again that's a secret place an adult and a child should not be going regularly to together.

She's chatting to him about things she can't talk to you about....ummmm

There's some big red flags here. Don't ignore them.

You say she's insecure and anxious. so she's especially vulnerable. So you need to step in and protect her. Anything they are doing together which is hidden and alone needs to stop. Be definite and assertive. Believe in yourself and step in straight away. You are her mum and you really don't wan to be looking back at all this with deep regret.

Mythical - the rules are different know. If your father were around now he would be aware of the rules (which would be there as much for his protection as for students'). Being a professional he would be following the rules.

If a teacher was incorrectly marking your childs homework - constantly making serious errors in their subject - wouldn't you contact the school ? Or would you just decide that you should just monitor it and count the numbers of marks they incorrectly gave or deducted from your Childs homework?

I'd speak to the teacher first. If I wasn't happy with the response then I'd take it further.

I'm not trying to protect the adult, particularly. I don't know his motivation any more than you do. I agree that boundaries have been crossed but that's been with the consent of the OP in part. When the lines are blurred by both parties then an honest discussion between those parties is what I think is needed. The most important person is the child. She could become alienated from her parents if she feels they aren't being fair.

I wouldn't have allowed the lifts in the first place. I do believe that's inappropriate. I would be concerned about the messages. But before I went over his head I would want to have a discussion with him.

Definitely pick your daughter up. I would not be happy in the slightest. And if it was me, I'd be having a polite word with him advising him not to message her. Stop this now, it's not normal. Good luck.

I wouldn't have allowed the lifts in the first place.

But it's not necessarily that easy. The very first lift might have been given for any number of plausible reasons - parent running late, the man in question going the same way, it was raining, etc, etc. And then when it's been accepted once, it's much harder to then say no, without looking like a paranoid-paedo-on-every-corner type.

People who infringe on boundaries know this. They play up to it. They push a little further next time. It's all done in plain sight, with the parents seemingly consenting along the way. It can be quite insidious, as the various posters who've experienced same on this thread have explained. Again, this man may well not be that sort of person. The OP just doesn't know though, and something about this is not sitting right with her. Her priority, quite rightly, is her daughter.

Times have changed. We're now much more aware of actually how common it is for young people to suffer at the hands of people put in trust. That's why these safe-guarding measures are put in place, as PP have said, to aid and assist all parties. This man is either quite seriously misguided (and needs to be righted), or, he knows exactly what he's doing.

Another one who was groomed and sexually abused by a teacher who was too involved and too matey. That started off with texting and emailing out of hours and lead to a long and systematic breaking die of my boundaries until I was having sex with him and finally being violently abused and raped by him. Trust your instincts OP.

So many bad experiences recalled on this thread

Mythical - admitting that this sort of thing does happen doesn't take away from the good thing your father did. But sexual predators do exist and do exploit situations just like this - OP would be letting her dd down in a big way of she did not act on it.

I don't agree that OP should talk to him ("x") first - if he is a groomer, then it could just cause/give him the chance to become more manipulative.

I can see your point but I've always been an up front sort of person who deals with problems directly.

It wouldn't sit right with me to go over his head without talking to him first.

I am like that too Mythical, but the problem in this situation is that if he is an abuser then it is just going to push his approach underground. He will drop the public bit like the lifts and the coming in for tea, but the messaving etc will just continue out of sight. That's what happened to me, it went from being grooming up front to 'They don't understand us this will have to be our special secret'. I was 13 and he was a teacher 'just giving me extra help' who got warned by abother teacher. I look back on it now horrified but at the time he had me convinced it was romeo and juliet, the little bastard. He only got caught because he was abusing an 11 year old as well who ran away to his house after a fight and her parents reported her missing. He had spun her a big line of shite as well all about how it was them versus us. The teacher that had seen us together never told anyone, even after the police got involved. I think that arsehole deserves nearly as big a kicking as my abuser.

Your dad sounds lovely and not at all like that but when an adult blurs boundaries and breaks rules in todays society they should understand that the consequence is this sort of suspicion.

I am sure your dad would have followed the guidelines if he was required to. And still been able to help these kids. what if your dad set some boundaries and you did not know. Don't look into this too much because it is not an attack to someone like your father.

in the past, there were plenty of abuses so people are speaking out now and doing what they can to protect the kids.

I do realise that, Blueberry, I was using him as an example of an adult who does take an interest in and cares for young people. Not all who do that are perverts, that's what I was trying to say.

Yes mythical but as. Someone who works with children this man is aware of current safeguarding rules; that you don't give lifts home and you don't personal message children in your care (or club etc).
So he is already breaking rules, and some might infer, worming his way into the position of 'family friend' where he can say these rules no longer apply.
So there is a high-ish probability that he is grooming this vulnerable young girl (where's her dad?), and caring but also vulnerable seeming mum (sorry OP if I'm wrong here).
Mythical this has nothing to do with your dad but is a situation that is getting out of hand and needs to be addressed, not just with the guy, who as others have said, will just become more devious if he realises his current game had been rumbled.
If he's just naive, great, but it doesn't mean the op should be naive.