Emotional incest, dysfunction etc with DP and MIL, or just your typical MIL situation? Long, sorry!

[itsmondayagain]

NC for this as don't want to out myself - any opinions and advice on this would be much appreciated as I know little about this kind of thing.

Context: Myself and DP been together for 3 years. DP currently works away in the week due to work. No DCs. Both just under 30. MIL is divorced, since DP was a teen. She never met anyone else but FIL has been in a new relationship for 12 years. MIL used to be very nice and supportive of me, but as time has gone on, she's pulled a few not so nice stunts. DP lived with mother when parents divorced, and he had a rocky time where his dad was concerned - ie MIL would drive out of the house and wait in the car round the corner when my DP was 14 years old, if his dad came to pick him up. DP's current relationship with each parent is pretty stable and he often comments that he has a good relationship with them both, and is happy with the situation. However, there is a rule that we cannot talk about FIL in front of MIL - indeed she is extremely negative about the FIL at any opportunity, and when we first started seeing one another, MIL divuldged many things to me that semeed to me to simply be trying to make me turn against FIL (I didn't - I took anything they said about one another with a pinch of salt).

When I first met DP, I thought this relationship with MIL was unusual - he was extremely attentive to her. I initially I thought this was very sweet, and it was something my mum said was admirable in a man etc etc. However, as time passed, I realised that my DP seemed to often act out of guilt, as opposed to desire. ie. in the early days, FIL invited us to stay with him and his gf at gf's villa in France for a weekend. It materialised that FIL's gf had had this home abroad since FIL had met her - I thought it strange that DP hadn't already been. When we decided to go, MIL was 'very upset' (apparently, I wasn't there when my DP told her we were going), and as a result, DP wanted to send MIL flowers. This was the first alarm bell to me that something wasn't right... surely that isn't normal to want to do that? Surely a mother shouldn't make her son feel that way about seeing his dad at his Dad's gf's villa? They have been diroved nearly 17 years at this point! Please tell me if I was wrong to assume this was odd.

Without going into detail about comments my DP has made in the past about his MIL and her behaviour (that would take a while!), I would like to give a few examples of what has happened in the last year or so to help with the current picture here. Just after xmas my DP worked 4 weekends in a row. I still saw him on weekends, but only briefly in the evenings. My MIL knew this. We had arranged to meet her for dinner, and on the morning of that day, she called and asked what we were doing that afternoon. I told her we were going bowling (I know!), before heading over to her...and she quite literally lost the plot - why couldn't she come, it wasn't fair, she was being left out. It was insane (or so I thought). My DP spoke to her and i'm not sure what she said but he came off the phone in floods of tears. MIL told me I 'hogged' DP.

Last year, DP had a phone convo with his mum when I was half asleep in the car - on loudspeaker. DP knew I could hear - MIL did not. DP made a comment that he may have to work in Ireland for 5 weeks soon, and said in a jokey way, 'Im not sure how happy xxx would be!' MIL proceeded to say I was clingy and needy, and was holding him back from his career, and then took the opportunity to tell DP that for a while she had thought out relationship was unhealthy. I was in tears at this point but didn't let MIL know I had heard. DP was apologetic, but during the conversation he just laughed it off and moved on - there was no real defence of me.

Unfortunately, said MIL has barely any friends (due to falls out on a regular basis). New people seem to come in and out of her life, and she will call my DP regulalry very upset after 'what soemone has said.' Last summer, she fell out with her aunt while on holiday (aunt left after 2 days), and they haven't spoken since.

A few other things:

• At Xmas MIL bought me a 2.99 Nivea hand cream from boots - AIBU to think this was a bit of a dig?
• I messaged MIL to thank her for the gift at Xmas..heard nothing back, not even a thank you for the gifts I had bought her
• DP gave the impression we needed to help MIL financially, as she is always saying she cannot afford to go anywhere on holiday (she has no mortgage and recently bought herself a new car...)
• The entire relationship seems like my DP is looking after her, rather than the other way around

So, finally, (if anyone has managed to get to this point), does my DP have a dysfunctional relationship with MIL? Does MIL emotionally depend on my DP and has this affected him? Or, (as is very possible), am I reading into things when it's just your average nagging MIL? Also, why was MIL previously nice to me, and has become more hostile as time has gone on?

Thank you in advance to anyone who has the energy to reply after this essay!

OP is the female, the DP hasn't posted here. I am suggesting that the OP talk directly to the MIL to clarify what she will / won't tolerate.

I'm also suggesting she stops the stereotypical cat fight over the oh so precious man. There are plenty more. If he doesn't meet your needs and is (in your own mind) mentally having sex with his mum - then I don't think anything is going to get rid of that image.

Rationaloptimist, so beautifully said.

Seriously? the stereotypical cat fight? Good grief.

nauticant
Absolutely it's a stereo type. What else is it? Two women trying to get dominance over a man they view as their exclusive right.

How often do you hear of SIL vs FIL issues of this intensity.

I would like to add with the 'making him cry' scenario, if that was a DD who was crying over her mothers upset it would quite probably be called empathetic.

Because he is a man it is viewed as warped in some way.

itsmondayagain

I also find it very revealing that, as one of the small minority here who has the temerity to articulate a countervailing view to your own, you naturally conclude that I must be defensive and "have problems".

This thread isn't about me.

It's about you.

You invited comments from allreaders. Perhaps in future you should be clear that unless respondents unequivocally support your current view (You're lovely, kind and caring, MIL is an evil monster, DP is a wimp and is metaphorically shagging his mum) then you will naturally conclude that the other person has "problems".

I think this might say a lot about how much you read into situations. You don't know the first thing about me.

Just a quick reminder that the Relationships board is a safe haven for many people, and a place where we can receive gentle advice and reassurance. Over on AIBU the debates can become very robust, but I think it's good to maintain the supportive atmosphere on this board.

What does that mean seoladair? There shall be no disagreements with OPs? Is that really helpful to those seeking advice?

No, of course people should voice disagreement. But it's getting quite robust. That's all.

Hang on a second seoladair OP has specifically requested "blunt opinions as to whether I have read into things too much (her words not mine).

The majority have had one view. Newrule, jackydanny , a few others and I have dared to speak up against the MN hegemony and been told by OnGoldenPond You are talking out of your ass (hmm... erudite, persuasive, polite and, most of all classy OGP).

The OP has broadcast to a global audience that she believes another woman has "severe mental health issues" and buying his mum flowers, crying on the phone, not immediately jumping to the defence (of the poor weak OP against the vicious MIL) and the MIL not asking about holidays and savings naturally means the son and mum are having "non sexual incest"...

Why not go the whole hog and accuse her of "non fatal murder".

I think you'll find it is the minority here who have been encouraging OP to keep her language (and therefore thoughts) in perspective and to avoid unnecessarily making a bad situation worse.

No judgement or criticism intended. Just a reminder to keep it gentle. Point taken though about the OP requesting "blunt opinions"

Absolutely. However I also feel that the spirit of "total support" and encouragement here can occasionally be counter productive.

From my own exchanges with this OP, she is clearly someone who can take a very small number of facts and then construct a rather elaborate story in her head about what those facts might mean. She knows very little about me but immediately concluded "I feel that perhaps you have your own issues that make you so defensive. She's diagnosed MIL as having serious mental health problems because she didn't say thank you for a present and thinks she might be too clingy.

OP asked a specific and precise question Am I being paranoid and unfair?

I don't know for sure but I would be willing to take a pretty good guess.

because she didn't say thank you for a present and thinks she might be too clingy
That's not quite the full story.

Of course

I do think that your DH is getting off lightly, OP. He's an adult, he has to bear some responsibility for the continuing dysfunctional relationship with his mother, his skewed priorities and refusal to protect you.

Maybe a change of tack would help-not setting out what his mother has done wrong but setting out what you expect him to do? But if he is happy with the status quo then you have got a serious problem.

The OP is concerned about the 'influence' that her MIL is having over her partner. Her partner apparently is not as concerned as she is. He may not view his relationship with his mother as dysfunctional. Trying to forcefully drive a wedge between them will only end in tears and anger for all concerned. I still can't work out whether there really is a major problem.

Some people said they were in a similar situation and tried a 'wise as a serpent, gentle as a dove' approach and that worked for them.

OP is clearly not happy, and does not feel protected and supported by her partner. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, something is not gelling properly.
OP can
A) do nothing and hope matters will sort themselves out; perhaps they will
B) do nothing, see no improvement, and get more and more resentful
C) lay her cards on the table with her partner and see whether things improve

I'm sure there are other options too, but that's how I see it.

I agree with rational tbh OP.
She has made the point much more succinctly than I could, but I agree with every word.

Sometimes posters on here will swerve a thread rather than offer an alternative opinion, well I know I do. It's just easier. Doesn't mean that the coo-ing chorus is necessarily right though.

Not feeling protected and supported? What does that mean and what should that look and feel like to the OP? Only she knows and I guess the reassurances her partner gives are just not enough.

What are the cards she should lay on the table? An ultimatum? OP has already spoken about this to her partner and he keeps reassuring her that she is number one.

OP, do you mind sharing what you think the ideal situation should be? What would make you feel better with regards to MIL's and DP's relationship?