Emotional incest, dysfunction etc with DP and MIL, or just your typical MIL situation? Long, sorry!

[itsmondayagain]

NC for this as don't want to out myself - any opinions and advice on this would be much appreciated as I know little about this kind of thing.

Context: Myself and DP been together for 3 years. DP currently works away in the week due to work. No DCs. Both just under 30. MIL is divorced, since DP was a teen. She never met anyone else but FIL has been in a new relationship for 12 years. MIL used to be very nice and supportive of me, but as time has gone on, she's pulled a few not so nice stunts. DP lived with mother when parents divorced, and he had a rocky time where his dad was concerned - ie MIL would drive out of the house and wait in the car round the corner when my DP was 14 years old, if his dad came to pick him up. DP's current relationship with each parent is pretty stable and he often comments that he has a good relationship with them both, and is happy with the situation. However, there is a rule that we cannot talk about FIL in front of MIL - indeed she is extremely negative about the FIL at any opportunity, and when we first started seeing one another, MIL divuldged many things to me that semeed to me to simply be trying to make me turn against FIL (I didn't - I took anything they said about one another with a pinch of salt).

When I first met DP, I thought this relationship with MIL was unusual - he was extremely attentive to her. I initially I thought this was very sweet, and it was something my mum said was admirable in a man etc etc. However, as time passed, I realised that my DP seemed to often act out of guilt, as opposed to desire. ie. in the early days, FIL invited us to stay with him and his gf at gf's villa in France for a weekend. It materialised that FIL's gf had had this home abroad since FIL had met her - I thought it strange that DP hadn't already been. When we decided to go, MIL was 'very upset' (apparently, I wasn't there when my DP told her we were going), and as a result, DP wanted to send MIL flowers. This was the first alarm bell to me that something wasn't right... surely that isn't normal to want to do that? Surely a mother shouldn't make her son feel that way about seeing his dad at his Dad's gf's villa? They have been diroved nearly 17 years at this point! Please tell me if I was wrong to assume this was odd.

Without going into detail about comments my DP has made in the past about his MIL and her behaviour (that would take a while!), I would like to give a few examples of what has happened in the last year or so to help with the current picture here. Just after xmas my DP worked 4 weekends in a row. I still saw him on weekends, but only briefly in the evenings. My MIL knew this. We had arranged to meet her for dinner, and on the morning of that day, she called and asked what we were doing that afternoon. I told her we were going bowling (I know!), before heading over to her...and she quite literally lost the plot - why couldn't she come, it wasn't fair, she was being left out. It was insane (or so I thought). My DP spoke to her and i'm not sure what she said but he came off the phone in floods of tears. MIL told me I 'hogged' DP.

Last year, DP had a phone convo with his mum when I was half asleep in the car - on loudspeaker. DP knew I could hear - MIL did not. DP made a comment that he may have to work in Ireland for 5 weeks soon, and said in a jokey way, 'Im not sure how happy xxx would be!' MIL proceeded to say I was clingy and needy, and was holding him back from his career, and then took the opportunity to tell DP that for a while she had thought out relationship was unhealthy. I was in tears at this point but didn't let MIL know I had heard. DP was apologetic, but during the conversation he just laughed it off and moved on - there was no real defence of me.

Unfortunately, said MIL has barely any friends (due to falls out on a regular basis). New people seem to come in and out of her life, and she will call my DP regulalry very upset after 'what soemone has said.' Last summer, she fell out with her aunt while on holiday (aunt left after 2 days), and they haven't spoken since.

A few other things:

• At Xmas MIL bought me a 2.99 Nivea hand cream from boots - AIBU to think this was a bit of a dig?
• I messaged MIL to thank her for the gift at Xmas..heard nothing back, not even a thank you for the gifts I had bought her
• DP gave the impression we needed to help MIL financially, as she is always saying she cannot afford to go anywhere on holiday (she has no mortgage and recently bought herself a new car...)
• The entire relationship seems like my DP is looking after her, rather than the other way around

So, finally, (if anyone has managed to get to this point), does my DP have a dysfunctional relationship with MIL? Does MIL emotionally depend on my DP and has this affected him? Or, (as is very possible), am I reading into things when it's just your average nagging MIL? Also, why was MIL previously nice to me, and has become more hostile as time has gone on?

Thank you in advance to anyone who has the energy to reply after this essay!

I think this sounds like a totally suffocating relationship. I wouldn't be so surprised if you said that your DP was 17 and struggling to separate from the parental home. But you're nearly 30.

I would think very carefully about whether you really have the energy for a relationship with three people in it. And whether your DH really has the guts to put up the proper boundaries and set things to rights. If he has, I think it can be done, but it will involve a lot of patience on your part, and counselling on his part.

massive heads up here from the mostly unanimous replies.
I would speak to DP, & tell him if he can't support you & show mil you are united then the relationship is over.
He will say you are over reacting, you must say, she is manipulating him, either he is a man in a normal relationship with you, or you are out. There is no future for this dysfunctional relationship, him having conversations in hiding, him crying, her crying, whatever......
It sound like something out of a horror film.
You cannot have a family, if it is in your thoughts, with this poisonous mil.

& btw, doing a max 1hr 15 mins commute home is completely doable.
Sorry, The guy sounds a complete Mummy's boy

Yes, a mummy's boy. I'm all for adults being close to their parents, but this is beyond what is normal. For her to suggest he move back in with her, that was a huge attack on you as well.

He seems to have a picture of her as a poor, defenceless, vulnerable elderly woman who needs him to look after her. Whereas in reality she's, what, 50-60ish? Bizarre.

Some single parents do unfortunately develop a bit of a warped relationship with their children, with the children taking on some of a partner's role. It's hard to resist sometimes, I was a single parent so I know how tempting it can be at times, but if you are a good parent you spot it and nip it in the bud. He is acting in this way. I don't know if the damage can be effectively undone at this stage, if he can't even see it himself.

I think you would be best off cutting your losses and binning this mummy's boy. Like someone said upthread, you're not his therapist and you are under no obligation to put your own life on hold while he works his way through the emotional mess of his family relationship.

OP, I have seen this with my own MIL. Thankfully, not with DH (as he is wise to her behaviour) but she has done a real number on DBIL.

In her case she was widowed fairly early and DBIL as youngest was still living at home. She seems to have treated him almost as a surrogate partner from them.

Her behaviour had a lot to do with the failure of his first marriage and had a lot to do with the second almost ending. At one point she told me proudly how he had told his first wife that his DM was his best friend and would always come first with him

He is now in counselling after his second marriage almost ended, and is beginning to see his DMs behaviour for what it is. I'm hopeful he will be able to put his marriage back together again now.

Would it be possible to get your DH into couples counselling and see if he will listen to a third party opinion on his DMs behaviour? If he isn't willing to listen the prospects for your marriage are not good as your DM wants to ruin it

newnamefor15 she is 66, so older than the average for people our age with parents - not by much though!

ongolenpond thanks for your reply.

If I suggested a 3rd party/counselling, my DP would be horrified and insulted. He would take it as a personal attack on himself and his family.

Monday, I understand it must be daunting for you to stand up and tell your DP that this is not on. You have had several years of squashing down your feelings and trying to appease your MIL. But it hasn't got you anywhere has it?

You are NOT being unreasonable in thinking your MILs behaviour and your DHs failure to defend you is not acceptable and can't go on.

Tell your DH that you are in fact horrified and outraged by the disgusting behaviour of MIL towards you and his failure to back you up. Tell him this is his last chance to put things right or you will walk. If he won't take that chance he does not deserve to have you.

Be strong, you deserve better.

I hope he will be shocked into realising the error of his ways. If he doesn't it will be his decision not to value you enough. Please don't let this drop or you will still be living with this in 20 years time. How would that feel?

Your DP's primary relationship is with his mother.
Her interests even appear to trump his own, in his order of priorities.

Only you can decide whether you can accept this in a partner, or not.

His response would be that I come first, and he would claim that MIL does know that we are a unit and I am part of his life. He would claim that it is not necessary to bring anyting up with her, as it would just upset her, and 'we' (me and him), know we having something strong, and that's all that matters.

It's hard to argue with that, because on some level, I guess he is right - if WE know we are ok, then who cares what she thinks and says? That is his attitude, and one that he stands firm with. (On the rare ocassions he admits she is in the wrong).

Unfortunately, it does matter to me, and that's the point at which I am torn betwene my DP's adamant outlook that we shouldnt care what she thinks, and my own feelings of insecurity and frustration and, quite frankly, feelings of being insulted.

If I just ignored it, he's right, it wouldnt matter so much. At that's why I came to MN, as I am unsure whether this is me being paranoid and unfair on him, or whether I am within my rights to feel this way. (DP would say not).

You are within your rights to feel any way you want to feel. No-one gets to dictate your feelings.

Also, if your DP says "we shouldnt care what she thinks" but cries when she's having rants at him, he's hardly practising what he preaches.

And he can claim that you come first, but do his actions back that up? For example, pulling up his mother when she says nasty things about you?

"Unfortunately, it does matter to me, and that's the point at which I am torn betwene my DP's adamant outlook that we shouldnt care what she thinks",

What he says and what he actually does are two very different things.

He does care, too much, about what his mother thinks. She to him must be kept happy at all costs. He has been conditioned to think that of her. This was a man who thought he should send his mother flowers out of guilt when his dad invited his son and yourself to stay with him and his g/f for the weekend. This is also a woman who wanted her son to come back and live with her again; at least he turned that demand down. He keeps on refusing to back you up and shuts you down with the refrain that "she is just an old woman, stop being so nasty about her". You have buried your feelings indeed for too long by trying to be the appeaser here; it simply has not worked.

He is also not wanting or able to deal with this at all hence this "it is not necessary to bring up anything with her as it would just upset her" type guff. He hardly ever admits that she is wrong on any matter and is still very much tied to her apron strings.

Its up to you whether you want the next decades of your life to run in a similar vein or worse. You will not change this dynamic because the main protagonists do not want to do so.

He was an only child of a single mother and he carried quite a lot of guilt/responsibility for things that had happened to her. He would visit her regularly for weekends when we lived together. He was also used to taking on a 'man of the house' role, when he was growing up, from quite a young age. He spoke on the phone with her several times a day and also said that she would always come first, no matter what.

What changed:

1. Getting engaged and buying a house. In the process of doing credit checks I discovered that he had various bank accounts with his mum. I asked that he close/rearrange these before our wedding.

2. An almighty row when we were married a few months and he flew off the handle when I didnt want him to invite her over one day as I had lots of work on. I decided to ask her around to help us sort it out! After all, he wanted her to be involved...he found this toe-curlingly embarrassing.

3. We were planning a holiday and he asked me if she could come. This was an active, sightseeing holiday in a very different culture. I took a deep breath and called his bluff again. By Day 3 or 4 he was fed up of traipsing around as a three and becoming irritated with having to care for her, her being passive, refusing to make decisions etc. Somehow, him seeing that three could be a crowd re-balanced things between us.

4. Lots of support from me to her around being more confident, less passive.

5. Our son being born and me realising that she was the perfect person to take care of him, because she loved him in the same way that I did (although maybe not as much!).

6. DH's own life/work getting a lot busier and literally no longer having the time to devote to her issues.

The main exception to your situation is that she has always been kind/hospitable to me, which made everything else a lot easier.

We have other issues in our marriage but thankfully, although this was a big issue at the beginning, it has been turned around.

Your problem is your dp. He sounds very weak and unable to stand up for himself or you.

Add children into the mix and it will only get worse. I couldn't put up with all that, I really couldn't.

Not putting her in her place when she is on the phone & saying he should ditch you, when he knows you are listening is NOT OK. on the planet where I live.

oh he sounds like a nambypamby weak mummys boy.

What on earth do you see in him?

If you aren't married and don't have DC I would run as fast as I could to get away from this icky situation.

Not even joking.

She is shutting you out of the picture because you're not just a fling but a threat. She will get nastier and pretend you don't exist at all. People like this always end up very lonely.

You say that if challenged he would say MIL does know that you are a unit, and that you are part of his life.

It doesn't matter what she thinks - do you feel like you are a unit, it doesn't look that way from your posts ?

She would be right on one level though, you are part of his life - but how big a part ?

Tell him a list of all the hurtful things she's said and done to you, and remind him how he responded, how he failed or otherwise to back you up. Ask him how he'd feel if it was your mum saying these things to him, and that was your response ?

Don't allow him to allow you to feel like this. He's being disrespectful and weak. I think you've got to bite the bullet. A lack of support from the person who tells you - not shows you - that you really do mean everything to them is soul destroying.

just my 2 cents worth, time to put on the big girl panties and call mil out on her bs as it happens. If I was in the car when she was on speaker, I would've pipped up at the end and let her have it. She is extremely toxic and your partner is in desperate need of cutting the apron strings. Come on, it's easier for him to stick his head in the sand than have a an actual confrontation with his mother. The fact he LET her bad talk you and did nothing to correct it? Honey, you do not need that in your life

Old age provides many many reasons to demand that DS .... calls in as DM is feeling poorly / drops by to fix leak as tap is dripping / mows the lawn as it is too much for DM/ calls in as she can't get out due to arthritis/ poor eyesight/ bad cold/ weak heart/ how many more do you want?

I would call it a day. You don't need this.

When she is so antagonistic towards you, how will things be when children come along? Will she be badmouthing you in front of them?

I was meaning as the DM ages my above post could be the result. It is very hard to refuse older rellies as they are old/ poorly/ not going to be around much longer/ lonely etc and guilt makes it v hard to stay away.

OP, don't accept this rubbish from your DP about "let's just ignore what she says we know we are solid"

He is basically asking you to just now your head and accept her nastiness as he is too chicken to back you up. It is more important to him to avoid upsetting her. He doesn't care about your feelings.

The message his DM gets is that she is the most important person in his life and you don't really matter. I really think that is your DPs attitude as well.

Ask yourself, why don't you rip into her when she is appallingly rude to you? Is it because deep down you know your DP will always choose his mother over you?

You need to find yourself a partner who will put you first in his life. It's what nice, emotionally mature men do.

I have a DS and fully accept that, when he is an adult and finds his partner in life that she will be his first priority in life, even though he will still love his old Mum! It's the natural way of the world

Thanks everyone.

ongoldenpond it's so refreshing to hear of someone being balanced about their relationship with their DS!!

The thing is, I have always been so so so lovely to her. I've included her in days out often enough and I used to email her regularly to give her an update on what was going on with us. I don't understand how someone can be so cruel and nasty.

Yes I think I am scared of having a go at her because I wonder which side DP would take. It makes me feel a bit sick thinking about it to be honest.

I thought I could change her into a friend and make her happy. Clearly I was wrong.