"The Rules"

[jessmay]

I just read this after being recommended y a friend, and as far as I can see the basic premise is to pretend not to be that available or interested and not to give away too much of yourself.

I'm reading it and can't help feeling like it's basically tricking a man with sexual desire into marrying you.

Is it just me?

Don't you want to just be yourself?

Ha yes! I read this many years ago. It's hilarious. The line I remember is that you should wear lipstick at all times even when going out jogging! Hehe!

I've read this. The vast majority of it pretty daft - BUT there's nothing in it which tricks a man into proposing.

It may be a bit out of fashion, but IME playing just a little bit hard to get at the start of a relationship fuels the fire.

I have read it, so has a friend and married within 18 months of it. I did follow them but don't think it's why I got married.

The writer is divorced !! Hmmm

I do believe in not having sex too soon, not looking too keen but think that's just common sense

Whilst I think the majority of it is tosh, there is much to be said for holding out for real, dyed in the wool, commitment in the form of a legal binding marriage. My best friend was royally shafted this year...twenty years and four kids with a 'master of the universe' high flying, highly paid 'd'p. Twenty years as a Sahm. She always wanted marriage and kept expecting it after each child. He left her, AND married less than twelve weeks later. The OW would settle for nothing less. bf left high and dry.... No money, no home, except that which he allowed her to rent from him. .. Don't do it my friends, if he is genuinely 'committed ' enough to have a baby with you, then he can put his money and commitment where his d* is going. Don't sell yourselves short, there is no protection from living together.

Protection from what exactly, surely women can work and support themselves

I don't think anyone should 'pretend'. However, I think there is a lot to be said for maintaining a degree of independence - financial, emotional, social - whether in a relationship or not. If you're too dependent on one person for everything in your life youve got all your eggs in one basket. I think it stifles your own development, makes you less interesting (and easier to take for granted), and the fear of splitting up can mean that you compromise yourself into a corner.

So no game playing required, just a healthy sense of self & high standards

It's pretty awful. I get a real abuser vibe from it. Like it's teaching you how to headfuck someone by pretending you're not that into them.

I just think people in relationships should be honest about their level of commitment and attraction to the other. Maybe I'm a bit naive?

Yes you're naive... :) Total honesty is a nice idea but it can backfire in practice. This isn't a new concept. 'Treat 'em mean keep 'em keen' .... 'you gotta be cruel to be kind' .... ideas that have been around since god was in short trousers.

It makes a lot of good points, but the 'wear high heels all the time, dye your hair blonde and wear blue contacts' is creepy.

I think the salient central aspect of it is "show some respect for yourself, and don't admit anyone into your life who doesn't show you the same or more respect- and make them show you this in advance".

I think there's something in it.

One of the hidden premises is that women should use their heads in dating decisions not just their emotions.

The other thing is, many women do have a tendency to get too caught up in something that hasn't actually become a relationship and allow themselves to be trodden on in their attempt to make it all work.

Making sure that the other party has the same intentions and expectations as you before diving in is no bad thing.

Yeah, I agree with Pocketsavior.

It feels like an abusive element is in it to headfuck people into not thinking you are interested.

I don't want to get married to someone because they enjoyed hunting me. I want them to get to know me and think I am great just like I am.

I'm reading the posts though and wondering if I am naive too then!

I 100% agree on maintaining independence financially, your own friends, your own life and I don't drop plans or my life for a man but if I like him I suppose I show it and text back right away and show I am excited etc.

Having just cocked up yet another relationship that seemed to be going well, maybe I need to change things.

There are some things I am naturally doing from The Rules...like for example I do have a very busy and full life and I am pretty much always very well groomed and "done up" so I have a few of these boxes ticked.

I think where I fall down is on the "hard to get element".

The most recent guy he chased me, spent a while getting me to go out with him and I wasn't that interested to start with but he put a lot of effort into it and I started to warm to him. Then I noticed he was still quite active on his dating profile and I got a bit pissed off. I didnt say anything at first, and got more active on my own as advised here on MN and that worked a treat. He told me he was jealous.

The mistake I made was trying to make him feel better. I said sorry to have made him jealous and that I would stop going on while we were dating. But then HE didn't do the same!!!!

So I ended it. I just thought it was so bloody rude. I didn't lose it or anything but just told him I didn't want to date someone still shopping around.

I am wondering if I have played the whole thing all wrong and should not have cared that he was jealous, should have waited for him to disable his profile instead of disabling mine and should not have let on that I liked him as much back.

It just feels like game playing and I'm no good at it! I do feel a bit gutted now, and know he is too - plus he is also pissed off at me for reacting the way I did. We re still going out for a drink soon and I honestly have no idea how to play it.

Advice ladies! Blown it, or still a shot?

Being the straight talking northerner I am I'd likely put my cards on the table..

If this is just fun and friendship that's great. That's how it stays.

After we'd got to know each other better, like the person we are with and think it could develop and want to take it further then I would not be prepared to be one of many.

If that's not how he sees it then it remains strictly fun and friendhip till one of us moves on.

How long were you seeing him for Jessmay?

I'm going to sound psycho here, but only a month.

It was very close though. Many texts every day while he was away. Skype calls. Intimate chats. Just seeing him logging on to his bloody profile numerous times a day made me feel like I was investing time in getting to know him and he was looking over my shoulder for a better offer.

I know a month is not long but honestly...I don't like to feel like an option. I am getting the view that a lot of people don't share my view.

Anyway, it was making me feel shit, I found myself checking on him every hour and thought to myself "no man is worth this" and ended it. Was very calm and nice about it but just told him how it was honestly.

Anyway, he said he does still want to meet up and I honestly have no idea if I did the wrong thing or not.

I was hoping he'd respect me for walking away. He was definitely chatting to someone else because the amount of times he logged on was excessive for "just checking".

When I was on the dating scene a few years back quite a few women it would seem insisted in playing 'the hard to get' or 'don't show them you are keen' head games and all it seemed to do was make me think that they were not interested or bothered so off I went on my merry way. It does not take too much these days to be labelled a stalker so at most I would send a couple of texts or leave a few phone messages that confirmed my interest after a successful date and if they could not be bothered to respond in a timely fashion then well sod it, I am not going to start begging. Seriously, leave such games in the school yard.

After my first date with my future wife i sent her text on my way home telling her that I had had a lovely time and that I would like to see her again, she responded a few minutes later telling me the same. Nice and simple!

Well this one was all over it. Messaging as soon as he woke up, his lunch break, for an hour in the evening if I was home.

But STILL shopping around.

Maybe this is the world today. I don;t know. I just feel like I am ill equipped to play the games required.

Have you had the exclusivity chat yet?

No, not yet at all.

Until you have the talk, you're just dating, not a couple.

Them's the rules now.

Seems so weird!

Seriously, your boundaries and instincts sound good. Please don't be fooled into this idea about "playing games". That might get you a husband, but it will get you a husband who is a game player. Not a great prospect for a happy marriage or a healthy relationship.

The profile thing just sounds a bit nuts to me TBH - why not keep it simple? When you noticed his profile was still active, that would have been a good time to say "I happened to notice your profile is still active. Are you interested in making this relationship exclusive?" and see where the conversation went from there. And tell him your expectations. "Now that we are exclusive, I am going to disable my profile and I'd like it if you would do the same." (Perhaps less woodenly!)

Trying to make him jealous, then falling over yourself to apologise about making him jealous, and then expecting him to read your mind as to your original intention is bonkers. (Though I do think it's a bit double standardy of him to be jealous about something you said he was doing himself I'd keep an eye on that one if you carry on seeing him.)

TBH, though, I would probably leave that one lie. You've had a bad vibe off him and that's enough. Don't invest loads of time in people who you're getting a bad feeling from. If you do want to give it a go, then be honest about the profile thing and honest about your actual current feelings and expectations of what you want from him, and be wary for a while.

"The Rules" is based on a notion that women only want marriage and aren't really interested in sex but will trade it for marriage, and that men only want sex, aren't at all interested in long term relationships, but will trade a relationship for regular sex and ego stroking. It's bollocks. There are men who want marriage and women who want casual sex and every shade in between. And yep, the first response was absolutely spot on. All of these stereotypes of men and women in relationships actually tend to describe abusive relationship dynamics. It's astonishing when you realise it and see the connection really. Find a bloke who is interested in the same kind of relationship you are, and most importantly who is interested in you, as an individual, not a cut-out "woman" from a template.

I do think it is generally accepted, BTW, that dating multiple people is the norm these days until the "exclusive" conversation happens. But it's fine to have that as early as you like. Certainly before a month, if you want to have it then. Perhaps not until after the first or second date, especially with online dating, where the first meeting can or should be extremely casual and the second one only really more "date like".