Just letting off steam...same old, same old

[CostaRicanBananas]

Where do I start?

I feel threatened by DP's ex-wife. No particular reason other than:

• they are in constant contact (and based on past evidence, mindless chit-chat so not all about the children)
• they spend every other weekend together and although he now says that he stays with a friend, he initially lied about the fact that he was actually staying at his old family home
• he didn't tell her about our engagement until she accidentally found out
• he is still 'hit or miss' about telling me about arrangements (like only telling me at the very last minute that he's driving over a night earlier)

So every other week, I go through this horribly depressing cycle of jealously and insecurity which is eating me up. 2 years have gone by, he seems ever so keen to marry me, but that part of his life is still leading to huge arguments.

I find it incredibly hard to think clearly... I've been to where they live on a couple of occasions and they've come down a few times... Do you ever feel like your DP's ex is always there somehow, hovering in the background? And she's so accommodating! Last year, DP had arranged to go up on Valentine's Day evening and had lied that he was staying with his friend. It turned out that (his version of events) his friend couldn't put him up so he has asked ex if he could stay with her. He changed his mind, we went out and she was texting him at 1am to check whether he was still making his way there. No angry words, nothing. Honestly, if that had been me I would have been absolutely livid that he hadn't had the courtesy to let me know that he wasn't coming. So there is the lying from his end and the ever-so-accommodating & let's stay close to all the relatives etc from her end - why have I chosen to be in the middle of this? Or am I seeing a middle where there isn't one??

In an ideal world, our focus should be on all the great things that we have to look forward to, this should be a fantastic year for us! However, here I am wondering whether I am biting more than I can chew and if he's actually given her the dates when we are going away for our wedding abroad...you know, now that we've spent £££ on flights and accommodation for his DC too. I am debating whether to give him a nudge (seeing that he is truly bad with organising things far in advance) but potentially a) be told a lie that ex has got the dates when she hasn't, b) be told the he hasn't said anything which will lead to "why??"; or just leave it and see what happens. If they can't come because she's taking them on holidays then we will have an argument over DP not telling her later on rather than now. Why am I marrying into this? The more I write, the more crazy it sounds, no matter how in love we may be!!

I'm sorry but my advice would be run fast in the other direction. If you have trust issues now marriage should be the last thing on your mind.

You need to work on your insecurities and that is done best outside of this or any relationship.

TheCrimsonQueen Hi there, I agree and I've been trying to work out how much of the 'issues' are a result of my insecurities and what is a result of something not being quite right.

Outside this situation, DP doesn't give me any reasons to question his loyalty and devotion but this is huge. I started off with seeing somebody who was still 'firmly holding a torch', with the other person happy to feed that for whatever reason. When I look at the all the drama that it has caused, how I feel right now (I should be writing assignments and getting on with positive things, not worrying about whatever is going on while DP is away visiting his children) and how his history seems to resemble a sinking Titanic, I do wonder what on earth I am doing... But how much of it is normal in terms of feeling threatened by the ex-wife? My ex's partner has got it easy as I am out of the picture but I wonder how she would feel if I was to start messaging him all the time and keeping in touch with his family - I do with his parents but it's all about DS.

Have you spoken to him about all this? The important thing is that you should be able to discuss it with him and he should be prepared to listen and take your concerns on board... and act accordingly

Your partner has children with this women. She will always be part of his life. Whether the insecurities are of your making or not is the key and the only way to find out is to have some time out.

Today you are jealous of his ex tomorrow it may well be his children.

To my mind you would be happier with someone with less history - don't want to use the word baggage but you get what I mean.

theendoftheendoftheend yes, I have. I have explained that this is not about him seeing his children but how he goes about his arrangements and communicating them to me. The situation has improved considerably but we still had another argument last night - he claims that he had told me that he had to go a night earlier when he hadn't. This shouldn't be such hard work. It doesn't help that he genuinely isn't particularly good at planning in advance, so it would be unfair to say that everything that has happened has been plain deceit. This is exhausting and I am hoping that if I can understand how much is down to my insecurities (something that I can control and work on) and how much is 'red flags all over', I will be able to make decisions accordingly. I can't face another 8 years or so of this.

Walk away. You are clearly not happy. She is and will continue to be part of his life. You are in a vicious circle. The more jealousy from you the less likely he is going to be forthcoming about his plans.

I repeat - walk away.

I do not know how old you are but I am not sure you are emotionally ready for the dynamic of this relationship. Sorry.

TheCrimsonQueen I understand her being a part of his life, but this shouldn't be a problem provided all parties involved are being treated with respect. You won't always please everybody and when there are so many priorities to consider, occasionally somebody will end up disappointed (including me). I can accept all of that, just as I am 100% supportive of his time with his children - I don't feel the need to be present although I want to get to know them over time, I believe that it's important for them to have their dad to themselves and I don't feel threatened by it. If anything, I really like my own company and treasure the time that it creates for to me dedicate to myself / my friends. That last sentence you wrote there comes very close to what has crossed my mind time and time again: "this is all just too much". It's too convoluted, too many people, no clear boundaries when I came into the picture (I suspect that DP was happy to make life easy for himself and ex-wife was happy to oblige in order to have him close by) although it's improved and too much potential for drama.

TheCrimsonQueen How many people out there would be emotionally ready though? There's a part of it which is about me dealing with my own emotions, but DP has a key role to play, and one which he didn't play particularly well at the start. Maybe he was naive to think that somebody would just embark on a relationship while he kept his entangled arrangements with his ex-wife and with her in the picture all the time?

Just before Christmas, I had organised for us to take his DC to an event. It was meant to be a surprise but as we were driving to it, one of the boys let it slip that they knew about it as their mum had told them. I was angry and even more so when DP seemed to take her side by saying that "they probably just guessed it" - no, that would have been impossible. And I never quite digested the engagement thing. I didn't tell my ex but that's because DS was very quick to do so and we never speak to each other - car-crash of a divorce, I am ashamed to admit. All these things start to pile up and I feel consumed by uncertainty, not fully understanding whether I am giving them more significance than I should.

My view on life is it is just too short to be involved in drama that can easily be avoided by making a difficult decision now.

Think with your head. If you are going to devote your time and devotion to someone do it with a clear head.

Talk to him about what you need - although I suspect you already have. Things are in all honesty unlikely to change. The boundaries have been set. How much longer are you prepared to let this make you miserable.

I have no experience of the specifics of your situation, but one thing I do know about is jealousy, having been a green-eyed monster a number of times in the past! And the thing is, the more you give him a hard time about arrangements with his ex, the cagier he will become, as it doesn't sound like he likes confrontation much. And then it becomes a viscous circle, obviously- you getting upset about it, him concealing more, making you suspect more, etc etc. I don't know what you can do about this, and you may well have grounds, but I urge you to give it some thought.

If this isn't working for you, walk away

Don't keep going round in the same old circles. You don't sound content, you don't sound like you feel safe and you don't sound happy.

Re - The disorganisation and disagreements on whether he has told you plan changes. Can you both add something like google calendars where you can share diaries online and add to or amend things as they change? That will sort out whether you have misremembered or he has.

As for the feeling of insecurity.

What exactly are you fretting about though, further to him not being totally open regarding plans / disorganised about them? Are you worried his ex wife is keeping him close by because she has not let go of the idea of them getting back together? Are you worried he still wants to be with her?

How much contact do you gave with his ex-wife? Is there no way you can become on more friendly terms with her and talk to her yourself?

My ex is massively crap at organising things, so I mostly do the practical organising with his wife! Sometimes it does feel a bit like she is my co-parent rather than him, but I would prefer to be friendly and talk to her about arrangements so I am in the loop. Can you come to some agreement with his ex-wife? You know talk to her about how bad he is at planning etc and if you can all three of you keep lines of communication open so you can all be up to speed with plans?

She will always be part of his life and my view is if they are still close and still spend time together with the children, whilst also recognising they cannot be in a marriage and supporting each other to have new relationships then really it could be seen as a 'win' for everyone, including the children. But if you feel that you will spend all your time worrying you are 'second best' or somehow a 'stand in' or something (that's the sort of implication I got from your posts, correct me if I am wrong) then it will eat away at you more and more.

I think just because you and your ex are not on friendly terms then it doesn't mean that the 'right' way is for the only contact to ever be formal childcare arrangements. I think it is nice to be friends with exes, especially when you have a shared interest in your children.

My current partners ex still sometimes acts a bit like they are still married..sort of mothering him at times or getting really involved with plans to do with his family. But I think that is more out of habit and an attempt to get on rather than anything else, for their child's sake as much as anything. Also just because you divorce someone doesn't take away the bonds you built with in laws either. My ex in-laws are still friendly to me because I am the mother of their beloved grandson (their words). But they also respect and treat his wife as their current daughter in law. Room for everyone kind of thing.

(by the way this all took time!! And lots of adjustments from everyone, including moments of insecurity and worry from all parties))

Are you planning to have children with him?

If he can't let go of the past.... He won't have a future with you.

Norest Hi and thank you :-)

I have only ever met her once, very briefly.

I believe that she hasn't reached closure although they have been separated for 7-8 years and divorced for 4 years. The starting point in all of this was his access arrangements: he told me from the start that he stayed with a friend when in reality, he was spending long weekends at her house (their old family home). Whether this was purely for convenience, the fact is that I was told a lie and it immediately made me wonder about the whole situation. Then there was the Valentine's thing and the fact that she's so accommodating (and isn't in a relationship / seeing anyone) makes me very uncomfortable. Plus there have been a few occasions when I felt that things were being manipulated, including comments that DP's DC have made and DP's eldest (with another partner) seems to have decided that he had to take sides (???) - surely, if it was all over, there would be no need for him to feel that he was being disloyal to her?

I honestly don't know where DP stands in all of this. Sometimes his actions just come across as terribly naive, and that he'll try to get away with whatever suits him best as long as nobody knows - which has backfired on him on a few occasions. Last year, he totally failed to mention his DC's birthdays and other things which made me feel very much pushed out of the picture. It's much better now but those things have a way of staying with you (or in my case, creating mistrust), especially when you are opening your whole life to somebody. I simply couldn't understand why he felt compelled to keep something as basic (and essential) as that from me, and I felt betrayed and excluded.

And overall, it's not an equal relationship. He sees my whole life, I don't see those two weekends a month and the dynamics of it all. When he got his weekends mixed up, I suddenly found myself feeling guilty that I had already made arrangements on the basis that he wasn't going to be there but without saying so, I simply went ahead as planned - this isn't my fault and a lot of what we do has to work around his access. That' fine and I can be flexible but it's another example of something that feels rather one-sided.

Without wanting to sound like a major drama-queen, it just feels crowded: there are too many people to consider, too many links!

it's a massive back catalogue of lies, half-truths and deceptions isn't it ?

you know when he was staying at the family home he was shagging her, don't you ? You just haven't admitted that fully to yourself. That is why she is still so invested.

then when he found out he had to go a bit more underground and started hiding it a teeny bit better...but still his deceptions crept through, possibly orchestrated by her

you have had glimpses into the looking glass time and time again but you keep dismissing them

how much longer will you accept being made to feel paranoid and insecure ? I think you are being taken for a massive mug.

I agree it sounds like they are still involved. Why does he need to stay over , how far away does she live ?

Yes, it is a string of lies, half-truths and deceptions.

Don't call me an idiot for saying this but I don't know. In my eyes, it would take two very twisted people to embark on something like that, in front of their children and his eldest DS (who was also there), plus having all her friends and family has witnesses. They live over 3 hours away from where we are and he moved away quite a number of years ago.

It's not purposely turning a blind eye to evidence but if I am going to immerse myself in this way of thinking, then I might as well call it a day. When he introduced me to her, there didn't seem to be anything odd about it at all and she was quite pleasant.

But you are not content, and you are not happy

So for that reason alone, I would "call it a day"

What do you hope will change if you keep plodding on with this ?

And I'm sorry love, once you accept you have been lied to and deceived, isn't it time to draw a line under it ?

Why would you stay with a proven liar ? Where is the security in that ? It is simply marking time until the axe falls. Some time soon, or not so soon, you will have incontrovertible evidence of something big. Added up, all these untruths are "something big". At the moment you can take them individually and rationalise them, if you squint your eyes towards the middle distance/switch off the knowing part of your brain.

Wouldn't you rather save yourself from that ? I would. There are men out there that wouldn't put you through this.

Again, you are absolutely right about lies & deceit. I doubt that DP would still be around if he had been on the receiving end of it.

There are two reasons why I am still undecided:

• I am not sure I would have openly told someone I had only just started dating that I stayed over at my ex's every other weekend, for example.

• DP seems to make an absolute meal of things which seem to relate more to being emotionally immature than some cunning, cheating bastard

Everyone he has introduced me to seem to love him to bits, including his ex-girlfriend's highly enthusiastic mum. Can all these people have been deceived?

Well if he isn't the problem and he is as lovely as you say then you are the problem in the relationship.

Your insecurity and jealousy is not healthy. Whether it's him or you it is not a healthy place for either you to be and certainly not a place for existing or future children.

You need to both take a break and some space.

How can you possibly be expected to trust somebody who isn't trustworthy?

I don't know, Joysmum. I've given it to see how things would evolve; and sure enough we've gone from him clamming up whenever he didn't think that the truth would go down very well to him telling me details of the arrangements. Do I have a problem with him looking after their children at their home while she goes out? No, she bears the grunt of the childcare and it's the least he can do. I do have a problem if he's evasive when I ask something as simple as "what have you got planned for this evening?", that creates suspicion and mistrust. Although on that note, I now have a horrible image of her coming back drunk and the two of them ending up in bed together; so I could easily let myself down here by asking whether he's staying the night there too.

Now what part of all of this is genuinely too complicated and what part is my insecurity making it complicated? I haven't asked the question by the way...

Are you genuienly planning to marry someone who is consistenly still shagging his ex wife? Why isnt he having the kids at his (like normal divorced fathers?).

Wake up love.

Although he is clearly not very forthcoming about arrangements - you suggest this is partly due to his general disorganization & it's not like deceiving about e.g. fidelity - this does not mean they are sleeping together!( You yourself said you would not admit to staying in the house of an ex-partner) Several people state it as fact which seems to me highly irresponsible when they can't possibly know. Sometimes MNers see only the most negative possibilities.

Blended families are always going to be complicated & most people you meet in mid life are going to have kids & hence complications so why would you leave someone you love/intend to marry? You may not find someone else you love but they will most likely have kids & exes the same anyway.

There have been some good suggestions upthread like getting to know her, maybe travelling up there sometimes. Above all talking reasonably about it - once you have worked through your insecurities & whether they can ever disappear - but couldn't he have stayed with her if he wanted to? But instead he lives with you. And how few exes actually get b ack together? The fact that she is laidback about his visits/no shows suggests (tolerant) friend rather than anything more.