Just letting off steam...same old, same old

[CostaRicanBananas]

Where do I start?

I feel threatened by DP's ex-wife. No particular reason other than:

• they are in constant contact (and based on past evidence, mindless chit-chat so not all about the children)
• they spend every other weekend together and although he now says that he stays with a friend, he initially lied about the fact that he was actually staying at his old family home
• he didn't tell her about our engagement until she accidentally found out
• he is still 'hit or miss' about telling me about arrangements (like only telling me at the very last minute that he's driving over a night earlier)

So every other week, I go through this horribly depressing cycle of jealously and insecurity which is eating me up. 2 years have gone by, he seems ever so keen to marry me, but that part of his life is still leading to huge arguments.

I find it incredibly hard to think clearly... I've been to where they live on a couple of occasions and they've come down a few times... Do you ever feel like your DP's ex is always there somehow, hovering in the background? And she's so accommodating! Last year, DP had arranged to go up on Valentine's Day evening and had lied that he was staying with his friend. It turned out that (his version of events) his friend couldn't put him up so he has asked ex if he could stay with her. He changed his mind, we went out and she was texting him at 1am to check whether he was still making his way there. No angry words, nothing. Honestly, if that had been me I would have been absolutely livid that he hadn't had the courtesy to let me know that he wasn't coming. So there is the lying from his end and the ever-so-accommodating & let's stay close to all the relatives etc from her end - why have I chosen to be in the middle of this? Or am I seeing a middle where there isn't one??

In an ideal world, our focus should be on all the great things that we have to look forward to, this should be a fantastic year for us! However, here I am wondering whether I am biting more than I can chew and if he's actually given her the dates when we are going away for our wedding abroad...you know, now that we've spent £££ on flights and accommodation for his DC too. I am debating whether to give him a nudge (seeing that he is truly bad with organising things far in advance) but potentially a) be told a lie that ex has got the dates when she hasn't, b) be told the he hasn't said anything which will lead to "why??"; or just leave it and see what happens. If they can't come because she's taking them on holidays then we will have an argument over DP not telling her later on rather than now. Why am I marrying into this? The more I write, the more crazy it sounds, no matter how in love we may be!!

Sorry - he introduced you to the friend that he wasn't staying with, but introduced him as the friend he was staying with?

Well bitby I don't think it's at all easy to find love again in midlife & know so many lovely women who have been alone for years because there seem to be fewer lovely men available (for a variety of reasons) so that is why I caution ending a relationship due to one's insecurities...obv if there really has been infidelity that is different.

I would rather be alone with 15 cats into my old age than settle for a relationship like this

Why are you wasting your life on this bellend?

He lies to you he lies to his ex,. Without trust you have no relationship.

Who arranges a Valentine's date with someone they're not shagging or want to shag? If they're not having sex I'll eat my ipad.

C'mon OP is is a farce, and a very poor one.

I think I might have asked you this on your Winter Wonderland thread.

How can you even think of marrying a man when you don't even know the truth about why his last marriage ended? Or rather, you know the truth and he's a liar. "On a break" were they? She has nothing to gain by lying about him cheating on her when pregnant.

Btw, my XH's new girlfriend would think he's a good guy because he and I are very civil. Hmmm. That's because I don't want my daughter posting on MN in 20 years about how to manage divorced parents who have maintained a hate campaign for decades. He's a cheating, thieving arsehole, actually. But you would know that from my behaviour. Granted, I'm not letting him and his pox ridden cock sleep in my guest room!

I don't know, if I met someone and he said "Just so you know, I have a very amicable relationship with my ex and do things at weekends with her and the kids" I would be OK with that, if it was the whole truth.

I wouldn't be OK with being lied to, nor really with him lying to her, as I would see that as not boding well for me. (As in significant lies about where he is and what he's doing, not white lies about your haircut is nice etc.)

I also think the valentine's thing is odd. I don't take Valentine's that seriously and we probably wouldn't go out on a "date", but still, I'd be less than impressed if DP planned to spend it with his ex! That's kind of indicates something dodgy - either they are shagging, or she has some kind of unhealthy hold over him (e.g. "I can't bear to me on my own on Valentine's night, please say you'll spend it here" etc.) and he's too weak to be straight with her that it really is over. Then lets her down, which is also crap.

Just noticed your "same old same old".
It is.
Go back and read replies on your previous threads.
Is he still sulking because you're not a virgin. Have you done your "oooooh, but you have the biggest cock ever" routine to try in vain to stop him treating you like shit?
Is he still cadging money off you?
Walking off and leaving you when you don't do as he says?

Not surprised he wants someone as gullible as you "off the market".
Wake up. And wake up before September.

Easy to say Anyfucker when you are not in that situation - actually it sucks.

I have not read the previous threads so have only been commenting on this one & maybe the OP has deliberately limited the scope of what she refers to here...other posters are clearly aware of much more history so probably better placed....thus it strikes me OP that it is pointless to keep posting in hope of getting substantially different responses to those you have got to previous threads?

Now that I agree with, ocelot

With your question about whether lots of people can be deceived by him, the short answer is yes. Manipulators and liars are very good at hiding the nasty side of themselves. That said, I wouldn't hold much stock in the fact his ex girlfriend's mum loves him. I'm sure he has many good qualities that make him a wonderful son-in-law but that doesn't mean he makes a good partner.

This sounds like a horrible, confusing mess. I don't see what's in it for you other than tears and upset, honestly. It sounds to me a bit like he wants to have his cake and eat it, he wants to carry on the happy family life with his ex yet have you as well. Who knows whether he really cheated on her but I'd be inclined to think he did, based on the fact he's lied to you numerous times. Personally, I wouldn't want to be entering a marriage with a man who consistently lied to me, didn't involve me in important family events and I didn't trust. You've already said you can't put up with years of this so I think you know deep down that you've got to end it. It's very sad but you're better off out of it.

Yes but Ocelot even if there are fewer men available. Even if there's a chance not to find your perfect match etc...

Is it better to be in bad company than alone? Clearly OP is insecure but the reasons why are partly due to her DPs behaviour. There doesn't need to be cheating involved to break the deal. She mentioned she goes trough depressing cycles etc, if you feel like this when engaged n things haven't gotten better in time, how will u feel when you're married to this person you know?

I think it's better to be alone than in bad company not the opposite...and yes it's easier said than done.

BUT IT'S DOABLE

He is not available and not honest.

He is a charming, successful manipulator.

A split will be painful in the short term, but you will have dodged a very large bullet.

Bitby having only read this thread it was not evident that there was a significant problem beyond the OPs insecurity 're ex-wife hence it did not seem to be a choice between bad company or being alone. Interesting how the OP has not been back for a while...

I do get tired of people who are not alone advocating it though - it's much tougher than they think.

ocelot7 hi there, I've spent so (!!!) much time and energy on this, and reality is that time is flying by and I've got work due asap! I've been quiet typing away and trying to ignore the knot in my stomach.

As grateful as I am for all the well-meant advice, the one problem is that you've all only heard my side of the story - and even that has been in bits here and there.

The story about Valentine's last year was that we didn't have anything planned and it coincided with his weekend with the children. I doubt they had something planned as he was never going to arrive there before late at night, but then he proposed going out for a meal and the weather was awful hence why he stayed. When we first started dating, he used to go up on a Thursday and come down on Sunday evening, sometimes on Monday morning so that he would take the boys to school / pick them up. That changed a long time ago (NOT at my request, I hasten to add!!) and he seems to genuinely dislike being away from home. I don't know what conversations go on between him and his ex two but he seems to be keeping his time away to a minimum whilst looking for opportunities for his DC to come down to us.

Again, I don't know what's going on and if his DC weren't keen on coming down (I don't think they like it here, tbh), I doubt DP would tell me as he wouldn't want to hurt my feelings. He told me at the start that him and his ex were in good terms, which I thought was great considering the train-crash that was my divorce! WITHOUT wanting to make excuses for his lies (very important!!!), there have been times when he got things terribly wrong and it looked to me like he was just trying to keep everyone happy - the hold that she has on him (if at all) could be anything: financial, emotional blackmail or a bond that hasn't been broken.

As I explained before, he has taken me there on a couple of occasions and his DS have been down a handful of times - Easter, just before Christmas etc. He has talked about us going together more often but... I am not perfect and not an angel! They don't live in a particularly nice place and I can't say that I exactly jumped for joy with enthusiasm - I work full-time, have my own DS who needs to be micro-managed through his GCSEs atm and I am studying so weekends are very important! But then, the problem has never been him going there or time with this children, the problem is the lies and secrecy.

I am so, so tired of all this drama. I was genuinely happy on my own for a good number of years and I went out of my way to avoid going out on dates. I wasn't ready, I was enjoying my company and I had other priorities (i.e. myself and DS). But what I am really trying to say with all of the above is that there are always two sides to the story. There is no excuse for the lies but if all of this was just a game then why go through so much trouble to change things? Why an engagement and marriage when he was hardly being pressure into a serious relationship? Why bother at all???

I meant 'his children' not 'this children' btw!

Bitby & ocelot7 - I wholeheartedly agree that it's better to be alone than in bad company. The biggest problem I had with being on my own was men thinking that because you were a single parent, you'd simply go for anything that moved - ha! I am not afraid of being on my own, I really like my own company and I've got a lot of positive stuff going on in my life atm - I was in a very good place when DP came along and still am now (drama aside, of course). But I've fallen in love with this man and it's the first time in my life that I've felt genuine love for somebody. My first marriage was circumstantial, this second time was actually going to be for love. Hence why I am not prepared to turn my back on it so easily.

Every time I've posted here has been me trying to understand (or sift through) what's going on and try to gain some perspective. The difficulty is, as I've mentioned before, that it's one sided.

No - the difficulties is not that it is one sided. We all live our lives one sided.

The difficulty is that you have a relationship where you have to keep posting because you need to see some perspective. In an equitable relationship, where you were confident about your partner and happy that all was ok, you wouldn't have to keep asking.

The bottom line is that he lies and he keeps secrets. He doesn't trust you with the truth. And you have no idea what that truth is.

DeliciousMonster yep, true.

He's told me to make a decision as the clock is ticking and that he can't change the mistakes that he made in the past and can do no more than to make the right choices / decisions. The whole situation is turning me into some deranged, paranoid monster.

But by the same token, what cheating bastard rushes back home with bags of grocery shopping, and worrying about dinner and packing your kit for the gym? Consistently so, day in day out. He makes the wrong decisions, for whatever reason, and lies / hides things that he thinks will get him into trouble - all related to the same thing, his access arrangements. Other than that, there is no doubt of where his heart & mind are. So I look at the hundreds of positives, all the things that he does (honestly too many to count) and they tell me that it can't all be some sick game. Just like with the whole shagging / not shagging the ex, what sick people would do something like that and involved a whole string of people along the way? It's introducing their children to dad's partner, it's making other people potential accomplices (the friend who DP stays or not with)... the whole thing sounds bonkers when, quite frankly, they could just get back together if that's what DP is up to.

And I don't think that this was an issue with the first relationship that he had after his separation. They were together for over 3 years and it seems to be that the ex-wife and ex-gf got along ok as the children went away on holidays with them, etc. In all fairness, torch or no torch, the ex-wife seems to get on well with pretty much everyone. So when I look at these facts and try to be objective about it, I start to question how much is down to my own personal insecurities (obviously, some trigged by his lies) and how much is there to genuinely worry about.

OP, it sounds as though your DP is far too worried about upsetting you, and that this has led to the lies. You're trapped in a vicious circle: the more you are upset about his relationship with his ex, the more he worries about hurting your feelings more, the more he conceals things - and then you find out and your insecurities are increased.

In short, he sounds like a people-pleaser: someone who spends most of his time running around trying to keep everybody happy, even if that means lying his way through situations.

He needs to realise that trust in these cases is extremely important and can only be built when there is complete honesty between you. You need total transparency about where he is, and what he's doing for this situation to work. That also means that you need to ensure that your own reactions are reasonable and proportionate to a situation where he does need to be an effective coparent with his ex. That means there may be times when you have to compromise and swallow things that you don't want to do, or bite words back because they would injure the honesty between you. (Asking a people-pleaser to be honest with you, then going nuclear on them when they are, is unlikely to be effective).

I would also suggest that you try to meet and get along with the ex-wife, as a friend. She sounds pretty cool, actually, and you may find that you actually gain a family member, and have your insecurities reduced because you know the person well and can confide in them. (My DH's ex is one of my best friends, and she is awesome).

why would two people want to marry without having at least a foundation of trust?
You don't trust him.
He doesn't trust you.

He has built a wall of lies and deceit around a MASSIVE part of his life. You are probably a deranged paranoid monster because you are living in a crazy world of lies and deceit. I don't see you being the the middle of anything but very much on an outer orbit.

How do you see this panning out if you marry? Are you prepared to have him away every 2nd weekend? How about if you have a child with him?

Maybe his XP doesn't want him back? I can't think of why she would want to?

Remember, it's not paranoia if it's true!

what cheating bastard rushes back home with bags of grocery shopping, and worrying about dinner and packing your kit for the gym?
One with a guilt conscience? These acts could well be his "bunch of flowers". Even if not, I don't know why on earth you would hold up this example as evidence that he isn't cheating or up to no good.

shovetheholly thank you, from the bottom of my heart. I am not trying to find excuses for some lying-cheating-bastard, but I do think that DP's main issue started with fear of how he was going to be judged / perceived and not wanting to hurt my feelings. And I agree with managing my reaction / behaviour, also because I am very conscious of the fact that he only sees his children once every other week for about a day and half, which really isn't much at all.

We are not going to have children together, neither of us wants that. As for the access, we will all need to be flexible, really, just like other posters have mentioned here. And when I look at the ex's situation, I also see someone who seems good - she seems to get on well with the mother of his eldest children and everyone else, she's obviously played a big role in his eldest son's life (treated him like her own) etc.

Is he really worth all this hassle ? Whether he is sleeping with her or not, it's all a bit odd.

You only met her once .
You don't know when his kids birthdays are .
You say you want to get to know his kids but you have been together two years already
They didn't know that you are engaged .
You have already booked flights to take the children abroad but you've not agreed it with their mother ,who they live with full time .
He lives with his ex up to four nights a week , but you don't know what the sleeping arrangements are or if she is even there .
You think that because he brings you bags of shopping he must be honest

All this isn't normal TBH

Also I am wondering what job he has, that he can be 3 hours away each Friday and Monday . Does he only work part time ? How is he supporting his kids financially ? Does he live at your place or do you own /rent it together ?

It was only a matter of time before someone would come along and say 'he is only lying for your own good'. Yeah, course he is!

No delicious, he's only lying because she's so paranoid.

no confusion between cause and effect there then