DP unsure about children - should I leave?

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Hello lovely ladies (and men). My DP has just revealed that he might not want children and that if he does it probably won't be for another 8-10 years and it has left me devastated - hoping for some positive advice on what to do.

For background, we have been together for 3 years but with a 4 month break a year ago. I am 28 and he is 30. We have always had a really lovely relationship and are best friends as well as lovers. The reason we had the break was because I worked abroad for a bit and he found whilst I was away that he got used to being on his own and independent again and struggled to be in a serious relationship again when I got back. The break up was as amicable as possible (although devastated I accepted his decision and we just kept our distance from each other) and he spent the entire time apart utterly miserable, realising it was a huge mistake and trying to get the confidence to ask me to take him back, which he eventually did. It took me a couple of months of cautiously dating him to trust him again but we have now been happily back together for 6 months.

We started to discuss moving in together later this year, trying to work out when would be best logistically due to out of sync leases etc, and this conversation turned into a talk generally about our future. It came out that I was hoping that if all went well, we would get engaged in a couple of years and probably have children a couple of years after that. He on the other hand seemed a bit taken aback by this and said he was definitely not thinking on that time scale. He was thinking more like getting married in 5 years time and not having children for another 8-10 years, if at all. I pointed out that if I have to wait 8-10 years I may no longer be able to have children and that having kids was the most important thing to me in the world. That made him back off even more and he said he would happily just be with me forever without children and he couldn't say that he would ever definitely want them. It did seem to be the first time he had considered the biological implications for me, though - like it honestly hadn't crossed his mind before.

We have talked about marriage and children before but always in very general terms ie 'if I have children I'd like them to learn a second language' or 'I'd like my children to go to state school' etc. We had never discussed specific timings before but when we got back together last year I made it clear I would only consider it if we were both fully committed to being together forever. I suppose that I assumed he realised I meant marriage and kids and that this would be sooner rather than later. He on the other hand took it to mean marriage at some point in the future.

Our conversation got quite emotional and I said that I needed to know for sure if he doesn't want children as then our relationship would have to end because I definitely do want to have kids. He then became very upset saying he really didn't want to lose me again but didn't know if he could give me a guarantee that he would want them in the future or when that would be. We decided to leave it for a bit so he could work out what he wants.

I am now terrified of bringing it up again as I would be absolutely gutted to lose him. I am also worried that by making it so black and white I am putting a lot of pressure on him and he will end up making a false decision that he might not have come to given more time to think it through and to see him friends develop their relationships (only a couple of his older friends have had kids so far and about half his friends are single). I think he probably will want kids eventually (though maybe not for a long time), he would be such a great father and he has a great relationship with his own parents. He said he doesn't want to lose his independence but that seems a bit selfish and a bit immature to me to still prefer to be free to go out with your mates all the time when you're 35 (and I bet a lot of his friends will be settled down by then too!). I am very independent and love going out with my friends but can easily see that children would bring more than enough joy to compensate for the loss of freedom. On the other hand though I don't want to be left in limbo for a year whilst he makes his mind up, only to find that nothing has changed and I've then lost a year of trying to find someone who definitely wants what I want.

I would really appreciate any wisdom from you all - I know I am not the only person to have faced this dilemma so would be grateful for any similar stories and how they worked out.

Yes, I'm afraid you should
Watching your 30s tick away because he won't consider trying for kids 'yet' will be soul destroying for you and breed resentment, and that's assuming he won't renege on his agreement to try in 8-10 years and leave you late 30s, single and childless, or in a relationship with a man you resent.
If you want kids then you can't accept his half arsed and unrealistic offer of maybe in 8-10 years.

He's been honest with you.

If he doesn't want kids for 10 years, he basically doesn't want kids. I think his behaviour in splitting up after your working away also says it all. He may love you and want a relationship with you but not if it involves any inconvenience or compromise on his part.

Do you love him more than you want kids? Answer that and you will know what to do.

8-10 years is too long at your age.

3 maximum.

Are you willing to get to 38 and then hope he's changed his mind and then try to get pregnant in your late 30s or early 40s? If everything is ok. And hope he won't say oh but we're so 'old' now, oh but it's just been us all these years I'm not sure I can cope with a baby now I am forty, I like the life we have now...

8 to 10 years is a long time. It screams "I don't want them but I want to keep you holding on"

meanwhile your fertility is fading away and you get past the point at which children are even an option for you and you will hate him for it.

I'd leave because I wouldn't want to lose out on the chance of a children. I've seen too many friends strung along waiting for the man to decide the man is ready. That time never came.

Don't waste your life with him, honestly I have seen so many friends in this situation.

At least he is honest with you!

You better move on and look for another partner.
Some would say - he doesn't love you enough to have kids with you, thers - he is selfish. TBH - doesn't matter why.

{{{{big hug}}}}

'He said he doesn't want to lose his independence but that seems a bit selfish and a bit immature to me to still prefer to be free to go out with your mates all the time when you're 35'

Ahem. There is nothing selfish and immature about valuing your independence and being aware of the huge time and money sacrifices involved in being a parent. Parenthood is not for everyone, nor should it be. You also cannot say that he will probably want children eventually - he is telling you that he is not at all sure that he wants to be a parent, which is a perfectly valid point of view. He is being honest with you, listen to him.

You say that having children is the most important thing in the world to you. He is telling you that he is not on the same page at all. Do not make the mistake of clinging onto this relationship in the hope that he will change his mind or you can somehow persuade him into it. That will be horribly unfair on both of you.

Lottapianos nailed it there.

My Dh didn't want kids & that came out as we were getting more serious. We split up as I was sure that was what I wanted. It wasn't to manipulate him to have them it was just something for me that you can't comprise about.
He decided that he wanted to be with me & therefore kids would be a part of our lives. I made sure he was sure & we moved forward & got married a year later.
I knew that however much I loved him I would start to resent him if we didn't have kids & to make sure he wouldn't resent me if we did. We have 2 kids now. I would have wanted more & he didn't. I'm very happy with my lot & he is a great dad of our 12 & 8 year old.
Are you prepared not to have kids?
He also sounds like he is putting off adult life.....a kid himself.
I was your age by the way & if not with him. Then you need to give yourself time to find someone you want to have kids with.

It's not just going out with your friends. It's going on holiday cheaply when you want, it's staying in bed for the day if you want, it's coming in from work and not working more. It's a peaceful house. More money.

I do think you should end the relationship. It will be very hard, but there are lots of men of a suitable age who are looking to get married and have kids around early to mid thirties. You're 28, young and will be in demand, so there is no reason to hang on to a relationship which is clearly, very clearly, not headed towards where you want it to go.

I wouldn't leave after the very first conversation, give him a couple of weeks to think about it then bring it up again calmly, knowing what you will do. His statements don't really show a firm, well thought out stance and I think he needs time to take in the reality check yesterday will have given him.

I think you need to listen to what he is telling you, and accept his right not to want children. If that is a deal breaker for you then the only option is to move on. Pressurising him will lead to resentment on both sides and break down your relationship anyway.

I too would give him time to think a bit more, but sadly if he does stick with 8-10 years I would end it, unless you're prepared to risk not having children. If he was saying 3 or 4 years then that would be different but 8-10 years sounds like he's putting it off as long as possible.

We started trying for our first at 32 (dh had initially said he didn't want kids, but we were very young when we got together and he changed his mind before it became an issue). I'll be 38 this year and had my first 4.5 months ago. If you wait until your mid-late thirties and have fertility problems you're not leaving much time to sort it out, particularly if you want more than 1.

It sounds a tough situation and must be really difficult to contemplate leaving a good relationship because you want different things

Hxx

I'm sorry OP, but I think you should break up with him if he sticks to 8 years. It's not worth the risk of him changing his mind the or it being too late for you.

My DH wasn't sure if he wanted children, but he was open to the idea of considering them then agreed to ttc when I said I wanted them now. It took a few months of seriously talking about it before we agreed. He's a wonderful dad to our son now and we'd like to have more.

Marriage before kids was important to me and I realise it isn't to everyone but what strikes me about your OP is that you say he was miserable without you, took months to work up the courage to ask for you back, but now doesn't want to get married for 5 years and doesn't seem willing to budge from his time frame even at the risk of losing you.

you deserve better.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

When I married DH I didn't want kids. I was your age. He was very clear that he didn't want kids either - similar reasons to your partner. He was 32. I was fine with that, because I didn't want kids.

Five years down the line I am slightly more open to the idea. He, on the other hand, has made it clear that if it was up to him he would have a baby right now. He doesn't mind enough to leave, if I decide I don't want to, but he is definitely the pro-child, of the two of us.

So things can change. A lot.

However. From the very beginning, what DH DID say, was that if I wanted a child he would gladly have one with me and that he thought he'd probably be happy about it once he did. I know he didn't really mean this, at the time. But he wanted me to be happy.

So it does concern me that you've said you really want to do this, and he's come up with a timescale that, while not completely out of the question, does risk lower fertility, and also means that your chances of finding someone else to have a baby with in time to conceive, should you get to the end of this period and he still doesn't want one, are quite slim.

I wonder if he genuinely hadn't thought of it. Which would be a bit weird, but there go. Maybe now he has. I do think you need to bring it up again. Because if he doesn't want kids and you do, you can't be together, I'm sorry. But 10 Years is a LONG time. You're still quite young, and I do think it's ok to not feel ready at 30. If you really love him and suspect he may feel differently in a couple of years, it might be worth sticking it out, for a shortish length of time, to see. But only you can know about that, really. And it is risky.

Here is my take on it.

It's obviously completely his right not to want children. It's also absolutely his right not to be sure whether he does or not - as long as he is honest with you. The trouble with that not unusual scenario is that the partner who wants children unavoidably takes a huge risk, even with a completely honest partner who is saying, 'I am so sorry but I honestly do not know what I will want in 5 years, I can give you no guarantees and I will understand if you want to end it'.

This is what he is saying and this is where you are.

I would say that in this scenario the sensible person decides what level of risk/probability they are willing to gamble with - and in your case, I would say the implied risks are too high.

Firstly, the 8-10 years thing. He's 30. So he envisages spending his thirties in the same style as his twenties. That's what he's saying. That vague comment isn't actually so vague, it's quite clearly on the side of 'not settling down/having a family' AT ALL within the timeline of 'imagine your next stage of life' kind of thing. Big Risk.

Secondly, your recent breakup showed you very clearly that the above isn't some kind of vague cold feet about commitment thing, when actually in real life he's effectively settled, etc. No, instead, at 29-30 he got an unexpected taste of singledom and what did he do? Dump you like a hot potato. The grass wasn't greener for long of course, but it shows you that mentally he really is in that 'uncommitted' frame of mind - that really IS him. Big big risk.

Thirdly, also thinking of the break up. That should also have taught you an important lesson. This guy puts himself first, second, third. He wanted, fleetingly, to be free of you - so out you go. Impulsive, selfish, possibly quite cruel. Stupid, too - so probably not intentionally cruel, and soon regretted - so you're back together now. But - please note that behaviour and factor it in. Right now, he is being honest with you. Fair enough. I would think that it's more likely than not that in 5 years, when he still doesn't want children but even more doesn't want to lose you, he might well lie about it. Put himself first at your expense, just like when he dumped you. String you along, not because he's a bastard but because he's childish and selfish and wants you more than he respects you - just like he's demonstrated here. Biggest risk of all.

So - because of all this, and because incidentally in my heart of hearts I wouldn't want to try again and wait around for a guy who's already cast me aside on a whim once - I'd dump.

What you need to avoid here OP is the risk of spending your 30s patiently waiting only to find he then doesn't want dcs at all, or goes off and has some with someone else. These are precious years for you if you want children, I'd leave him now while you've got time to meet someone else, especially given his previous wavering.

He is absolutely right to tell you now. He can quite easily have another 8-10 years of easy living and then first baby at 40. Easy for him.

I think it never really occurred to him that it would not be so easy for you. That your fertility would decline. He probably thinks that loads of women have babies in their 40s. What's the problem?

I think this is the time for cold, hard facts about fertility rates from mid thirties onwards. Show him the stats. Tell him again, very calmly, what you would like to happen and when.

But you must be both very clear with each other that if you can't find common ground and a solution, then the relationship ends.

...and although at 28 you're young, take into account the whole process. He's already stated that it's going to be at least five years before realistically you might expect a more solid reply to the question, 'So, thought any more about kids? In 3 years it's going to be 8 years since our conversation, are you now sure?' If at that point he umms and arrs, or even says he thinks maybe not - you're then going to be 33-34. You then have the pretty horribly decision of whether to THEN jump ship, and weigh things up and decide that you might now not find another relationship and have time to bed it in before you're too old, so it might be safer to stay put and try and persuade him/hope he changes his mind... aaaargh. Snookered.

Every year you wait is crucial - not because at 28 your fertility is declining, but because ideally you want TIME before that to meet someone else, maybe two or three someone elses before you meet the One, and have time to develop a relationship with them. Before you hit 35 and it's really decision making time.

I don't necessarily think he's as unaware of this process as he claims to be - and that's something else to consider. Bluntly, if he can keep you with him through vague promises until you're 36 ish (ooh, look at that, eight years hence - what a coincidence!) - then he might well know it would then be Hobson's choice for you and you might (bitterly) stay with him anyway even though he's still Mr Party and it's a no to kids, because you'd then be less likely to find someone else. He wouldn't do that? Don't be so sure, given the recent history, I'd say.

On reading this I can't see what is going to be the "road to Damascus" change that is going to make him want children at nearly 40 if he doesn't want them now. The big argument against children at 40 is that you are still very involved with parenting almost up to retirement. He sounds a bit set in his ways already, from what you have said, which also doesn't auger well. I think you need to find someone else.

If you do want children then you will need to find another man other than this man to have them with. I think it is time to part and his behaviour to you to date has not been all that marvellous to be honest with you. Its all about him and what he wants.

I broke up with my ex for this reason two years ago, it was absolutely heart breaking at the time.

I'm now engaged to my completely fantastic df and we have set a date for this year and plan to ttc a year or so after the wedding. I'm 31 this year.

You need to decide what matters most; your DP or children in your life.

I've been in the same kind of situation except it was my ex who wanted to get married and have kids and I didn't. I was 27 when the big discussions came up, we'd been together for over 3 years, but I ended the relationship a short time later as I didn't feel that it was fair to deny him something he really wanted but that I really didn't know if I would ever want. He didn't want it to end but although I loved him I didn't see what else I could do. I didn't want him to wind up resenting me when we hit some sort of '5 years time' deadline and I still wasn't ready, or vice versa as I felt like he was pressuring me into doing something (obviously life changingly, irreversibly major!) that I really didn't want to do.

Anyway, it was the right thing for us, given that I'm now 33 and still ambivalent about marriage and still really do not want to have children. Unfortunately for him he hasn't yet got married or had kids, but it still wouldn't have been right for us to stay together - this way it's just circumstance rather than me being to 'blame' for it. Nobody can tell you what to do, but I wouldn't bank on him hitting a certain age and suddenly changing his mind, obviously some people do but you can't guarantee it and it would be a big risk to take if having children is the most important thing in life to you.

I have to say though, I don't think that I'm immature or selfish for not wanting to settle down and have children. It's not for everyone, and certainly isn't for me at the moment. I love my freedom, I love my career and I travel a lot - I spent 2 months travelling in Africa and a month in Canada last year and am going to work abroad for 2 years next April. I would feel suffocated and be deeply unhappy being tied down and unable to travel and do what I want when I want. That may change in the future, but equally it may not. As long as I am always clear and upfront with any involved people about it I really can't see that it makes me either selfish or immature.

You sound very clear headed and confident about your decision JRShotMe, good for you. Anyone who would refer to you (us!) as selfish or immature clearly has their own axe to grind. Enjoy your travels!