Is our whole marriage based on this?

[WotchOotErAPolis]

Recently my DH and I have not been getting on very well (for last 3/4 years really). He has now started to say that he enjoyed it when we first got together as he thought it was funny that whatever he asked me to do, I just did (from putting the kettle on to things we did in bed). I'm at the stage where I am trying to be more assertive (it is new year after all!) and he seems to be reacting by saying that he liked me submissive. Is our whole relationship just based on him getting me to do things I'd rather not & me just doing it to avoid a confrontation? I have started to answer back or say no when he asks me to do something I don't want to.

I gave him a piece of my mind this weekend when he actually related that story in front of a close friend! I told him straight away that I was angry he'd said it in front of a friend and we'd discuss it later. The friend kept quiet thank goodness.

He works away 4days a week & quite frankly I don't miss him when he's away. Sometimes I don't look forward to him coming home as he will expect 'stress relief' (never referred to it as making love even in the early days) after he's then spent hours snoring in front of the tv, farting & shouting orders at the kids. Somehow I'm supposed to feel turned on when I go to bed at eg 11:30 & he comes up at 01.30 feeling randy.

How to stay assertive and how do i react to him when he tries to explain my assertiveness by telling me I "seem angry all the time"?

Maybe I should add that we've been married nearly 20 years and I'm not looking forward to the next 20 if this carries on!

Jasper: yes there is a lot of LTB on here & that's still an option, but I guess what MorissZapp reiterates is that there is a lot of 'reassessing' going on here. DH has just spent the entire weekend preparing material for a course he's delivering in India over the next 2 weeks, so I have to support him as he's the main earner. Meant I was totally on athletics / housework / shopping / kids taxi duties.

He has been 'behaving himself' too, partly due to me answering him back when he makes a cutting comment. Including talking over some decisions I have to make while he's away - the most serious is whether or not to have further breast surgery to replace the one I lost last summer. He commented that "if it was me, I wouldnt" as I'm not trying to attract anyone these days! My response was that it was up to me & although I'm not trying to attract anyone I need to do what's best for me in the end. My decision is based on self esteem, not any need to attract anyone else (or him for that matter!).

I have a day off work tomorrow so instead of waiting for DH to take me to a place all my friends rave about (he can't now to be fair, as he's away so much now) I'm taking a recently divorced GF to the seaside for the day, instead of moping about the house.

Sounds like it's only guilt that is keeping you in this marriage. Don't waste another 20 years.

You're trying to talk about reconstructive breast surgery and he smothers your voice with his? For that alone I'd slip a laxative into his tea/coffee just before he goes to the airport!

His utter contempt for you is beyond words.

Have an amazing day with your friend today! Ask her about how she got free, how she felt and how she feels. The journey - ask her to describe it. Just so you know something more about it. Most of all enjoy, enjoy, enjoy the day!

We did have a lovely day and she has been very frank about how hard it is to divorce and stay rational afterwards. For her though it was 'easier' to LTB as she found out that he had been living a double life and living with AW 3 days a week!

She doesn't take any sh*t and told him right where to go, but has been left with nothing. It takes a lot of guts to leave and it's awful thinking that I might have to bring 3 DSs up on my own. She feels I need to work on my attitude to him and I am doing that now anyway.

Sometimes I think he's trying to improve, then he puts in a daft comment and spoils it all. Up until now, I haven't reacted and have just 'stewed' - now I tell him straight what I think and whilst he doesn't like it, he has recognised that our relationship is in trouble and it needs working out. He is unsettled now as he knows that I have considered leaving him, so he is asking questions now - asking if it's convenient to talk when he phones, that kind of thing.

Now we are back to being 'friends with benefits' which is how our relationship started after all. Maybe that's OK for now, but we'll have to see how things change if at all over the coming weeks. Can I stay in a marriage where we're just fwb, or do I leave and see if I can find a soulmate [if such a thing really exists] risking being on my own for a while or forever?

The other thing my gf has taught me is that I do deserve respect and recognition - I may not be rich, young, successful, exciting, etc but I am bringing up three DSs [all teens] pretty much on my own [I really am, now that DH is aob all the time], taxiing them around, taking them to events, running a house, a p-t job and my own studying.

He's off to India for almost a month on Friday and I hope he comes home with more than a f'g fridge magnet this time! He recently went to Colorado for a week and yes, that's what I got! My YS got a fab new guitar, which we'd agreed on, but even a book from the duty-free shop on Colorado history [e.g.] would have been more appreciated!

His reason for not planning to get me anything from India was "you're getting a replacement engagement ring [the insurance has agreed to pay out - phew!] - why do you want anything else?". He didn't like it when I pointed out that he wasn't buying the ring, I was merely getting a replacement for the one he bought me 20 years ago [I paid 50% of the cost back then too]! Still, next lesson please...!

Have you investigated the Freedom Programme?
Call Women's Aid. They will help you make an action plan.

Make photocopies of financial documents especially that US account with 9K in it.

This is getting your ducks in a row so that should your situation become untenable you will have that sort of thing covered.

He is still controlling you and putting you down. I could get into a very long post enumerating how he does it. Example: taking the boys to the cinema to see a film he knows you wanted to see. He is telling you that when he knows what you want he will withhold it, but will bestow it on others. This is subtle as you have done what he wanted - shrugged it off and explained it away and swallowed your justifiable hurt and indignation, because it's a small thing. It's the death of a thousand cuts.

Wot i'm really liking the sound of you atm. You're getting quite sassy which is a great thing! You're also getting some much needed space from him while he is abroad. Plenty of time to relax into re-discovering and being the real you. It seems your day trip was a good idea!

I have no idea if an fwb relationship will be enough to satisfy your emotional needs. Love doesn't always include a happy couple scenario but even so, fwb's can't even be referred to as a lover, can they? Given what has happened are you sure there's even any benefit?

Be careful though, your wonderful sparkiness has already got the wind up him. It would be awful if he ramped up his attempts to regain control of you, even via the phone whilst he too ponders the future. Don't forget the pain he has caused you either. No amount of gift-ware can change that

Also, please read the opening post from Reality on this thread

Thanks recent posters! I have read Reality's post - always wondered what the heading was about! Now I know! It's true that LTB is a recurring theme on mumsnet, primarily because you wouldn't be posting if your relationship was spot-on and there was no cause for complaint! Most of the posters have 'seen it all before' and reading other threads by women in a similar position is reinforcing that no, I should not expect to be treated like this.

LTB is very much on the table as an option, but I shall be using the time he is away in India to get thoughts on paper, copy anything I need to keep hold of [including hiding the kids passports!]. I need to do some planning for the eventuality.

I have to keep reminding myself of what I have achieved over the last 20 years and stop beating myself up for all the things people say i can't do:

1. survived BC and recovered quickly due to being fit and healthy. I have had 6/7 further surgeries due to various complications
2. had 2 miscarriages, followed by carrying and giving birth to 3 DSs, some with harder issues than the others, [buy hey what kid doesn't come with issues!]. I recovered my figure and fitness quickly as I was fit beforehand anyway
3. I can still run 3 or 4x a week for up to an hour without a problem
4. when I was in my 30s I earned £50K pa as a freelance IT specialist - that doesn't make me stupid now that I'm 50+ and 'only' have a p-t job as an administrator for a social services agency [which I love and look forward to every day in the office right now - most of the time!]. I'm looking for more hours and seem to be respected for what I do for my team.
5. I am reasonably attractive and I am still more or less the same weight as I was when I got married
6. people generally seem to enjoy my company, as I'm outgoing and have a refreshingly daft sense of humour, but I can be quiet and just listen if they need me to
7. I have recently attended a bike maintenance course so I know I can change a tyre without help, though I do know my limitations and don't have a problem asking a man for help - I'm not a militant feminist!

8...............

Will that do for starters?!

Excellent start, Wotch! There'll be so many things to add to it as you go along, some big and some small, but they all add up to a person who Deserves better than he is prepared to acknowledge. Abusers like strong independent women. They have broader shoulders to stand on to make themselves feel big and important.

That'll do very nicely for starters Wotch!!

F@CK IT!

You have a great day and feel strong - then you feel a bit fragile all of a sudden, but hold it all back. And then - a friend comes over and tells you that a friend of his, who you don't know, has just found out that her son is terminally ill at 17. She and her xDH [who is the boy's father] are now sharing bedside duties in the hospital, meaning her current DH is alternately at home and sharing duties with the xDH.

He told me a bit more but then commented that it's so important to consider your future if you have kids, as once married, you're kind of joined at the hip forever, because of your children. You have to bear in mind that Xmas will never be the same; holidays are never the same; etc. He then left to go home, leaving me with that thought and now I'm in bits again!

I don't know if he was hinting to me or if he just meant it as a general comment as I don't know how aware he is of my and DHs relationship state right now [I suspect he might, through a mutual friend], but it hit me hard. Does he mean that you should stay together in case one of you or your kids gets sick? What kind of boll@@s is that? You don't stay married/together just in case someone gets sick years from now do you?

He's a fine one to talk anyway, as he split from the mother of his own DS when his DS was 12, and he was 32. He is now with the absolute love of his life having taken 10 years to 'find' her, so is in a great place right now and can get away with saying these things! He's not married and doesn't have kids now to worry about day-to-day either as his DS is now 21/22, though what would happen if his DS got sick? He'd just have to muddle through with his xDW wouldn't he!

Aw heck - why do relationships have to be so bl%%dy complicated!

Sorry - meant "You have to bear in mind that if you do split up, that Xmas will never be the same..."

wotch In my case the "Xmas will never etc" has proved completely right.

It's much, much better.

Thanks alchemist - I needed a good angry cry to get the frustration out then! I am over-thinking this aren't I?!

I had considered telling him he's talking rubbish, but on the other hand, if he really meant it as a 'thinking out loud' remark as v to a hint to me personally, I'd just offend him, so will quietly ignore it.

It is true that things will be different in future, but you can't be expected to put up with an unhappy relationship just because you have to consider what might happen in future. I'm sure he didn't consider future consequences when he split from his ex-P, apart from thinking he'd be better off apart from her.

Wot I feel dizzy just reading your thread... A couple of questions... Does your Dh like working away? Does he lead at work and has to be in control to get things done?

Some of the other things that struck me - I guess it's because I used to work away a bit so this might be a perspective from the other side of the coin?

When he phones home and you don't answer or cut him off to say you want to get tea on or you need to do something else - it probably seems trivial to him because he's working away and might need to do something and only has 5 mins for a quick call or can't speak a lot because of time differences whereas you are only making tea - your at home doing your normal thing but he is stuck away working in a different country. If my DH said that to me when I called home it would annoy the tits off me. Does something like putting the tea on really come before speaking to your DH when he's working in another country providing for you?

You also mention he was away in Colorado and didn't bring you anything back - when your working away you aren't on a shopping trip or have loads of time, I found I worked more because I was away and just wanted to get the job done, start early - work late - living out a suitcase and missing home & family - it's no fun let me tell you! I certainly didn't bring gifts home from every trip I went on - I'm on a foreign trip to do a job and do it to the best of my ability and only have x amount of time, last thing on my mind was "where can I get a nice xyz for DH".

Your Dh works away a lot from what you have told us - what would you do if he moved abroad if you split up - you would have no guarantee he would pay any maintenance if he is abroad and his salary goes into a foreign account. What then?

There is plenty of tutorials on the Internet that show you how to fix things. Don't ask for help from him anymore if you are leaving him.

Does he come from a religious background? The church I grew up teaches heavily on submission (fundemental baptist)

peggy - I do get what you mean, [I spent two or three years working afh so I do know what it's like] but he seems to have a dreadful habit of calling me right when I'm about to burn the sausages, or I've just lifted the car keys to drive the kids to school and we recently had an argument whilst I was getting changed for run in the office loo because he refused to accept that I would call him when I was dressed in five minutes' time [I did answer the phone as he was in the USA at the time, so wanted to let him know I was there]! I don't get that he won't take "can I call you back in a mo?" as an answer. If I call him back, then I can actually devote the time to him, rather than have to say "hang on while I turn everything off; tell the kids to go away cos tea isn't ready yet; get the dog to stop barking; etc"

It's not that I mind talking to him - of course I want to talk to him and he wants to talk to me and the kids too, but why can't he accept that 'right now' might not be the best time and 'in five minutes' might be?

When he does come home, he only seems to want me for 'stress relief' - his term not mine - when all I want is a hug and some affection [and sex - yes I need that too - I get lonely too, even with the kids for company]. If he wants stress relief, I'll start invoicing him for it.

He has also been like this before he started this job [only since October] and will call me several times until he gets me to pick up, even though I've suggested to him that if I'm busy and can't answer the phone [or I'm not actually physically near the phone!] he can leave a message and I'll call him back. He is very critical and makes me feel demeaned much of the time, so has been like this for years.

Sex has always just been stress relief for him. I can't recall the last time we 'made love' as he doesn't seem to see me that way. I feel like a servant and an answering machine half the time.

As for the gifts from being away thing, that's not really the issue as I know that business travel can be very unglamorous and there aren't always opportunities to go shopping! I guess if I felt secure in our relationship it wouldn't bother me that much, but as he never shows me much affection anyway it reinforces to me [justified or not] that he doesn't really miss me that much and I'm only here for his convenience.

His attitude to sex is disgusting.

He is treating you like a prostitute.

Echoing what other recent posters have said, sorry I have read all the replies! Agree that he is only treating you as a prostitute. And Christmas, Easter, all major events and holidays will never be the same. They are so much better, calmer and happier.

I read your first post about how happy you are when he's away. My XH would work away and I loved it, if he hadn't then we'd never have got married or carried on as long. My DP sometimes does night shifts and has been away for routine operations and the like and I hate it. I miss him. I think you being more content when he's not there tells you all you need to know.

No, he is treating you as one might a massage chair. Inanimate object to be used according to one's own requirement. A prostitute stands the chance of being paid for sex.

Someone here mentioned fried green tomatoes book. There is a movie too. I love it.

I suppose what I'm now doing is developing my self-respect & asking for what I want or expressing my opinions more forcefully. I've started reading a book I read in my teens that's been revamped for 21st century

www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208

I'd forgotten all in the intervening 20+ years and am focussing hard on changing my behaviour. It's quite a shock to me that I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT & I have the right to, but I'm not consistent yet, so I have lots of emotions running around.

DH is now on a plane for a couple of weeks in India on business, having come home late last night, spending 20mins with me over rushed dinner; then spending next couple of hours doing emails & admin; before I went to bed just before midnight. I tried to stay awake for him, but just couldn't keep my eyes open!

I don't know what time he came to bed but I woke at 5am to find him packing his suitcase & he left at 5:45; he made a comment about this seeming like a trial separation for us - 'like you wanted', so I shall treat it as such. I got up to say goodbye & told him I loved him for the first time in ages - I do still want to be 'him, me & the kids' but more ON MY TERMS - after 20 years on his terms & downtrodden, I hope this worm has truly turned.