Is our whole marriage based on this?

[WotchOotErAPolis]

Recently my DH and I have not been getting on very well (for last 3/4 years really). He has now started to say that he enjoyed it when we first got together as he thought it was funny that whatever he asked me to do, I just did (from putting the kettle on to things we did in bed). I'm at the stage where I am trying to be more assertive (it is new year after all!) and he seems to be reacting by saying that he liked me submissive. Is our whole relationship just based on him getting me to do things I'd rather not & me just doing it to avoid a confrontation? I have started to answer back or say no when he asks me to do something I don't want to.

I gave him a piece of my mind this weekend when he actually related that story in front of a close friend! I told him straight away that I was angry he'd said it in front of a friend and we'd discuss it later. The friend kept quiet thank goodness.

He works away 4days a week & quite frankly I don't miss him when he's away. Sometimes I don't look forward to him coming home as he will expect 'stress relief' (never referred to it as making love even in the early days) after he's then spent hours snoring in front of the tv, farting & shouting orders at the kids. Somehow I'm supposed to feel turned on when I go to bed at eg 11:30 & he comes up at 01.30 feeling randy.

How to stay assertive and how do i react to him when he tries to explain my assertiveness by telling me I "seem angry all the time"?

Maybe I should add that we've been married nearly 20 years and I'm not looking forward to the next 20 if this carries on!

OK - here we go: DH phones the mobile, then the house phone - doesn't leave a message. I didn't get back to him until 5 mins later as I was busy.

He asks if I've cooked dinner for him, so when I say 'yes', he doesn't ask what I cooked - just 'actually I'm not hungry tonight as I had a huge breakfast this morning'.

Well good for you! This is why I don't cook for him when he comes home - he's so unpredictable! If I cook he says he doesn't want it; if I'd said I hadn't cooked, he'd have wanted to know why not!!

I am SO GLAD I am going away on my own this weekend - flying up to see my DM & DD and two DSs for the weekend. Need some space!

I didn't mean to imply in anyway that you shouldn't look for someone else. What I was trying to say was that you keep deciding to stay...over and over, its not any harder to decide to leave, and its something you haven't tried yet. OK true you will have a whole shit load of other brand new decisions to make after that..but maybe somewhere along that line is happiness...you've been going round and round in a cycle of making familiar safe descissions and because no one else in that cycle is changing you are not either...
I dont think its easy, didn't mean to imply that, its feels like a close your eyes and jump moment, some people never do it no matter what the cost to themselves
But really its just a tiny thing..like a snowflake...and the next choice and the next until you look back and see the whole world looks different , in fact your world has already changed because your starting to consider how you'd like to be treated, and how you can achieve that
So congratulations, your on your way to somewhere new

I have got to the stage when I ring DHs secretary and ask when he's out to lunch that week. I then meal plan accordingly... Because DH can't tell me himself.

I now have a new respect for wives of high flying husbands. They may have money, but there's little happiness or family life.

He's an unkind, abusive man. Just get out as soon as you can. Seriously, life's too short.

It sounded like he knew you were distancing yourself from him and that's why he behaved himself and kept in constant contact with you. You've come back a bit to the marriage now so he's relaxed and back to his usual behaviour.

I'm not sure if men like this can change. He's middle aged and you've allowed this for 20 years, and because you allowed it he may have thought it was fine. If he is terrified of being alone then there is a chance he could change.

In all honesty, if you were me I would start living my life without him, avoid him but put up with him while he was there (all the while making sure I was compensated for his shitty behaviour with extra purchases) and take a secret lover. It's a terrible thing to do but if I had just spent 20 years being someones Fleshlight (Google it) then I'd have a "fuck him" attitude about it. He's been selfish for a long time, it's time you were too.

Being passive is only making him happy.
Chose some happiness for yourself.

There will always be something to stop you from leaving. When things get bad he will throw you a few crumbs of nice, you will then question yourself and settle back down, until the next time.
A bunch of fives can't be undone by a bunch of flowers.

This really sounds unsustainable. You're being drained of any joy. I agree with what Anna said above; he's unkind, controlling and abusive. I was ready to scream just reading about all these phone calls, things falling apart and his adjustments to your reports and whatnot.

To top it off I presume he gets to make a profit on that lost engagement ring and you won't see a penny of it? That's kind of nasty. He can say all he likes about the money going to future uni fees, I think it will go to his next batch of personal spending.

After my weekend away with my family, I think what I have realised is that I have got to find my voice and express how he makes me feel to HIM, as opposed to everyone else, even if he doesn't like it?

I have now started to try to take control of my side of things - I don't respond straight away when he calls, if I am busy [I always shot straight to answer it rather than make him wait]; I don't respond to his frequent texts.

However, we didn't even exchange news after I'd got home at 10pm last night, as he was still working and couldn't/wouldn't take time out to just catch up with me, though he did come and meet me at the train station. I did try to tell him what I'd been doing and show him some photos I'd taken, and he says he was listening, even whilst staring at his screen and typing away!

We haven't even discussed what to do about the engagement ring as I have the insurance people coming on Thursday to discuss it and he won't be here. [They couldn't give me a more convenient appointment as they only have limited 'slots' available and only work M-F which is useless when your DH is working hundreds of miles away - so am I as it happens, but I have arranged time off as I work locally anyway].

He even took the kids to see a film I'd asked him to take me to on Valentine's Day, but he didn't, so now I feel jealous that they've seen it, when he knew I wanted to see it too, but I'm happy to let that one pass, as I had been away on a jolly after all and had spent Saturday catching up with a bunch of old school pals.

My family have been very supportive and reassured me that it's not all my fault [though I guess they are a bit biased!] and I have to start standing up for myself. The other plan right now is to try to do stuff when he's not around such as go out to movies, theatre, etc with friends or practise my music, which I have let slip, or just read a book. Just because he's away doesn't mean I have to lock myself in the house all week. I need to get a life!

Still mixed up but trying hard!

Just wanted you to know that i have read you tonight.

Please get the insurance money into your a/c if you possibly can! Because yes, i think you should indeed get a life! I think you should give yourself different experiences well beyond your current roles as wife/mother/prisoner/worshipper of the DH

You sound like you have one heck of a sense of humour, caged up like you. Creativity too. Not to mention kindness. Do you sound familiar to yourself at all?

He is still a nasty piece of work but i felt you should remind yourself of you this evening.

Hi tipsy - yes I do so need a life! Having just sent my YS [who's 12] to bed after finding out he had maths homework he was supposed to do during half-term I am now utterly in despair!

I think I'm getting a handle on one aspect and am then off fighting a losing battle with another! I just seem to be up against so many problems right now and am beginning to lose who I am and what I'm here for. FFS this is such a stereotypical mid-life crisis [I'm 51 and hating every second of my 50s so far]!

After 12 years [my ES is 17] of continuously trying to get any of my 3 sons to actually do homework when they should or make more than the absolute minimum effort over anything, I just don't know where my responsibilty ends and theirs begins.

DH makes me feel inadequate and then all my children make me feel like a bad mother - constant issues with homework / my cooking [they don't eat what I cook] / tidiness / obsession with computer games, so constant battles to get them off their computers.

No wonder I feel so down and it's so hard to keep fighting after all these years.

OK here's the deal: I am going to stop posting here as it's turning into a "poor little me" thread. Action plan is:

1. Speak up - tell people (especially DH) how their actions make me feel

1. Don't be afraid - what's the worst that can happen?

1. It's not your fault - that was the last thing my Mum said when I left my parents at the airport

That's all folks! Apart from - when feeling down - RE-READ THIS THREAD!

I'm going to write this with love. You sound like a bit of a doormat and your husband and children treat you as such because it's easy to walk all over a doormat.

The only person you have any real control over in your family is yourself. This is your life and you get one shot at it so start doing what you need to do to build up your self worth. They will fight it every step of the way but will step in line eventually. You might even save your marriage.

The alternative is to hope they change...they won't.

*On a different forum I read about one woman's journey from doormat to strong woman. Her husband was horrible, her son was just as abusive. She left her husband and the son took over the abuse. When she tried to set boundaries he became even worse but she held firm, even kicked him out. Now they're relationship is much better and he treats her with a respect he's never shown before. The ex is still a prick, but he's out of her life so doesn't affect her.

I don't think there's much of the "pity me" thing about your last posts dear Wot. In fact it may be that this thread has stirred your inner warrior! You have a good plan, a strong voice and I wish you the absolute best.

Please feel free to return as and when you need support or celebration!
Grab your life, Wot - it's yours, no-one else's; all yours!

thanks everyone...

What do you get out of this relationship now Wotch?. What needs of yours does he meet here?.

You sound lovely but your H is really an abuser of the first order.

And my answer to this question you initially posted i.e. "Is our whole relationship just based on him getting me to do things I'd rather not & me just doing it to avoid a confrontation" is a resounding yes.

Speaking out may have more effect on your sons to buck their own ideas up but your H is likely going to be totally immune to that idea. He may behave better for a bit but will ultimately do everything possible to put you back in that cage he has partially created for you yet again.

He really does needs to be gone from both yours and your children's day to day lives because they have and are also learning damaging lessons about relationships here; I sincerely hope that none of them become a carbon copy of their dad and that your own relationship with them as adults is not irreparably harmed. They have not and will not thank you for staying with someone like their dad; they could well ask you why you stayed and put him before them.

Attila: I know I was drawing a line, but anyway...!

My little action plan doesn't preclude me asking him to 'shove it'. Item 2 says 'don't be afraid' as in, if after I speak up, he makes me feel belittled again, I'm not afraid to tell him to leave.

You need to leave for your children. Your 3 boys are learning from your marriage how to treat women like doormats.

After reading this, I have started wondering if my dh married me for the same reason
His dad used to be physically abusing to his mum but hasn't hit her in years. He is still a bully and a nasty man who talks down to his wife constantly
My step mum used to verbally and emotionally abuse me and my siblings
Did dh see that I could be 'pushed' around? He isn't violent but can be a bully
Why did I not look at how his dad treats his mum and see that as a big red flag?

Wotch

Your H feels completely entitled to do as he has done and does not give a fig about you and how you feel. Infact I think he actively enjoys seeing your discomforture jumping up and down like a puppet on the strings he pulls and speaking up now will make no difference ultimately to how you are treated by him (and by extension your sons as well). You have to completely detach from and reject his behaviour.

You will only get a life if you get this man out of your day to day frankly miserable sounding existence. Is money still the only thing that is holding you and he together now?.

Also you did not answer what you actually get out of this relationship so I would think you cannot answer that question at all. I doubt whether you have even asked yourself that question in the 20 years you've been married to him.

As for telling him to leave he has you still very much in a submissive role and he won't take you seriously anyway. He knows you won't follow through. You've stayed within this at great cost to your own self not least your children as well. You're all happier when he is away 4 days a week; that is very suggestive.

Twenty years is a long time, you really do not want to get further sucked into the "sunken costs fallacy" that also makes people make poor relationship decisions.

Zhabi

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. Your DH learnt a lot of damaging lessons about relationships and simply has carried them forward into his own adult relationship with you now. Same with you, your template of relationships was damaged and yes your DH may have married you because he could see that you could be easily manipulated and used by him to his own ends.

Do you have children?.

your action plan is good.
it sounds like you dislike yourself more than you dislike your husband . Spend time doing things YOU want/ like.

Keep talking to him.
He has plenty of faults but the recent examples you give of things he has done/ not done that annoyed you are trivial .

you will always get a LTB bias on mumsnet. it's not always appropriate.

and tell him to stop farting,and shouting at the kids

Attila, yes we have four children. I know that I need to break the cycle so that my own boys don't think it's acceptable to walk all over someone

51 is no bloody age now. I heard Mary Portas on the radio the other night, she's 56 and loving it. She was saying this is the absolute prime of her life, and she's learned not to take crap from anybody.

Professionally, it sounds as if your DH is in his 'prime' too, travelling and earning big money. Hooray for him but what's in it for you? Constant belittling?

Ok, so he's not violent or anything and sometimes he plays football with your boys. Great. But you deserve so much more from life than this. He treats you like a member of his staff, except that his staff can get him sacked for belittling them and you seem to think you should put up with it.

I'm reminded of the Fried Green Tomatoes book (and many others I have read) where middle aged women finally find their groove after years of joyless marriage. Dump the baggage and get on with life on your own terms.