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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Single Dad wants to see baby more

104 replies

Cowapjn · 05/01/2015 20:11

Hello everyone. I have posted on here before and received some excellent honest advice.
Im seeking some more if possible please. The jist of my story is:

  • Me and the ex girlfriend have a 6 and a half month old.
  • We split when she was pregnant.
  • Despite my absolute best efforts we remain separated.
  • Since the birth we have got back together a number of occasions but she has issues that created a vicious circle and she kept ending it.
  • I did so much for her when it wasnt needed but to try and make it work. This included coming off all social media, changing my number, disowning my own sister, isolating myself from friends, decorating the house to her taste so she would want to move back in etc it wasnt enough.

As i said our daughter is 6 and a half months old. The only time i have ever had alone with her was when i took her for a walk in the cold wind rain. Every other occasion is supervised either at hers or at her mothers which isnt ideal as i have an audience. None of my friends what so ever have met my daughter. A lot of my family have yet to meet her.
Due to work I see my daughter at weekends for 3 hours tops which absolutely kills me!
Things have become so strained now i dont know what will happen.

Me ex made a very fair point that i dont know our daughters routine. I then said i wont know unless she tells me which she has so far failed to do. Its not like i can spend a full 24 hours with the ex and baby and note down the routine - i need her help.

I own my own home and i just want to start having my daughter on my own is it too much to ask? The ex is so unreasonable though its so difficult i fear my only option is a solicitor which i cant afford and even if i could id much prefer to spend the money on the baby.

Im not a scum bag, ive never cheated, i work hard and pay my way. It feels like this should have been the best experience of my life but it hasnt. I missed the birth, night feeds and so much more and it so painful even more as the ex led me to believe her moving back in with the baby was imminent and i spent a lot of time and money making the house how she wanted.

There is my story.
Advice please
Be as brutal as you like but ill not be made to feel bad because i want to see my daughter more.

Thanks

J

OP posts:
Spindelina · 06/01/2015 14:36

OP, may I suggest that instead of

" putting together a letter to send to my XP detailing what improved terms I would like " ,

you might

put together a letter to send to your XP suggesting what changes could be made in your baby's best interests?

I know you probably mean the same thing (you want what is in the baby's best interests), but you need to double check that you come across as meaning the second one.

Faffyduck · 06/01/2015 14:37

It IS rediculous. I don't think many people would argue otherwise.

But it is the case.

Maybe she won't - but it sounds like they are pulling in opposite directions atm, if he calls her bluff and joins her in whichever way she's blowing, she may. Surely it's worth trying for his daughters sake

MiscellaneousAssortment · 06/01/2015 15:41

Which approach do you want to take? It's clear from the split in responses on here that there are two ways of dealing with this situation, or should I say, ways of reacting to the unfairness of the situation.

A. Reacting as if everything should be fair, and refusing to adapt to the unfairness other than getting angry about it
OR
B. Responding to the unfairness and putting yourself in the best situation to get what you want, no matter how unfairly others behave

I would favour option B as the path that is more likely to succeed.

So, no, by rights you shouldn't have to prove you're a good father, but in reality, creating evidence that you are will help your case - either with the mother and her relations, or with a court of necessary further down the road.

No, you shouldn't have to do anything except demand access, but practically, you may leave yourself open to accusations and misinterpretations if that's literally all you do.

Just because some of the advice isn't 'fair' don't think the people giving it believe the situation is ok, and reject it out of hand. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face!

AmantesSuntAmentes · 06/01/2015 17:48

The point is (history of abuse/neglect aside) the NRP doesn't have to jump through hoops to prove themselves as a parent before being allowed unsupervised access any more than the RP does

Should this reach family court, Cafcass can and will recommend a parenting course prior to unsupervised contact with a nrp, particularly in the case of younger children and parents who've had limited access, as I said earlier. I have witnessed this happen.

Honestly, how can something which can only be beneficial, be considered in such a negative light?

There is nothing wrong with even the most competent parents being open to enhancing their skills. I've never attended a class or group because I or anyone else has felt I had to but because I'm not conceited enough to assume that I know everything.

Starlightbright1 · 06/01/2015 21:49

I can tell you as a LP whose EX once cancelled access as there was a storm and the dog was scared. I considered how he prioritised his dog over seeing my son a reflection of his priorities.

Just a point to consider.

IdontusuallyNC · 06/01/2015 21:57

Should this reach family court, Cafcass can and will recommend a parenting course prior to unsupervised contact with a nrp, particularly in the case of younger children and parents who've had limited access, as I said earlier. I have witnessed this happen

This is correct. My ex partner has just had a contact application all but dismissed because he feels he shouldn't have to attend a parenting course obviously he has time to change his mind but until he produces confirmation of attendance his contact will remain at 2 hours per week supervised. unfortunately imo the only examples of his parenting have been less than adequate or reliable hence our separation.

loveareadingthanks · 07/01/2015 09:22

I'm come round to thinking a parenting course would be a good idea in this case - purely to 'play the game' and disarm the ex, not because I think it's reasonable to expect a father to have to do one.

IdontusuallyNC - in your case the father had proved himself inadequate so needed the course, so it was ordered by CAFCASS. That doesn't mean it would be ordered for other parents as a matter of course.

Amantes - I see your point in favour of the parenting courses, but again the situation is different. You chose to do them. I didn't. I did choose to read books, and ask for advice. You and I did perfectly normal things to learn about babies and children, like pretty much all new parents do. If courses had been available, maybe I would have chosen to do one as well. That's completely different to being told to go on one.

AmantesSuntAmentes · 07/01/2015 09:58

I'm come round to thinking a parenting course would be a good idea in this case - purely to 'play the game' and disarm the ex, not because I think it's reasonable to expect a father to have to do one.

When I first raised the idea, those were exactly my thoughts, along with pre-empting potential court requirements. The case I'm aware of is quite similar to the ops. Should the op have to go to court, a parenting course under his belt will support his case massively, like it or not.

I haven't told the op that i think he needs to do one, I suggested it as a positive course of action towards resolution. Quite often, going 'head to head' in such emotive circumstances, is the least beneficial route for all involved.

I'm glad you can relate to the point I was making. We all do our best by our DC, I'm sure and we are bound to achieve that by whatever methods or services are available. I'd never 'tell' someone to go on a course but I genuinely don't see them as any kind of negative.

kaykayred · 07/01/2015 11:25

Fertilising a woman and there subsequently being a child born does not magically qualify someone to look after a child.

What the fuck are people here actually talking about?

What sort of magical world are people living in where someone can knock someone up, and then be automatically endowed with the knowledge of how to care for a baby? It doesn't happen to women (although they have the questionable biological advantage of a fuckton of hormones compelling them to look after a baby) and it certainly doesn't happen to men. You either have to learn by trial and error and experience, or, in the case of separated parents where the father doesn't get that opportunity (SUCK IT UP THAT'S LIFE), you actually have to learn it through research, or courses, or books, until the baby is old enough to have others looking after them.

Goodwill is important, but doesn't magically replace actual learning.

I get that it's a shitty situation. I do. I get that the OP is frustrated, and desperately wants a relationship with this child. But this post comes across as exceptionally victim-ey and whiney about his specific terms not being met. The comment about missing the birth is especially grating. This baby is only 7 months old for god's sake. You ask if you are being unreasonable, but none of us can know that without knowing the specifics of how the child is being cared for. If the child is being entirely bottle fed, and isn't going through separation anxiety, then yes, maybe she is being a little unreasonable. At the same time, you can't just demand that the weekends are yours. You have to find times that both parents can work around. That might mean that you have to cut down your hours mid week so you can have an afternoon off, or finish early one day a week. Can't keep up the mortgage payments? Then you have a decision about whether you keep the same house and see the child less until they are older, or seeing your child more and moving into a smaller/less costly home.

Alternatively, you could try having a discussion (with or without legal presence) to determine when the mother would be comfortable you having the baby alone. Figure out rough timelines for when you would be able to have the child overnight (note: I wouldn't think until they are at least 18 months - 2 years old).

You may well fare much better with the mother if you lose this bitterness you seem to have about her not wanting to be in a relationship with you. She doesn't "owe" you a romantic relationship. She doesn't "owe" it to you to move in with you just because you made changes to your home. She isn't indebted to you in any way, shape or form.

PS, Maybe the reason she wants to work 16 hours a week is because working any more hours (and subsequently losing her benefits) wouldn't cover the added cost of childcare she would incur. You couldn't take the baby could you, since you work full time. Her parents might still work, or might not want the responsibility of being childminders that often, or she might just not want to burden them. Why on earth would she want to leave the child with your parents who she doesn't even know?

ovaryhill · 07/01/2015 12:00

For some clarity regarding maintenance, if you go through the CSA you will pay an initial twenty pounds to set an arrangement up, then you will have to pay 20% of what you are paying on top as fees and your ex will receive 4% less
This is to encourage parents to come to their own amicable agreements about money, you can check this on the Child Maintenance Options website

ovaryhill · 07/01/2015 12:03

Also I don't know if anyone else has said this but there are various mediation services that might be of help before going down the route of solicitors

Cowapjn · 07/01/2015 18:11

Hello everyone

I know you are all going to tell me to go and get legal advice and im posting more out of upset and frustration.

I posted a letter today to the XP stating that our daughter is now 6.5 months old yet my contact has not increased and remains at 2 hours 3 max hours at a weekend. I politely requested more. I stated that it is in everyones best interests as the XP will be returning to work soon.

I asked for 3/4 hours a weekend to take the baby out alone. NOTE: all my contact is STILL supervised even though there is no history of abuse cheating drugs etc.

She has just rang me to say no.
Contact will remain at around 2 hours supervised.
Her reason?
I dont know the babys routine.

My answer was if the baby needs feeding during the 4 hours let me know and i can do it. Ive fed her many times before. If she needs changing i have done this lots of times also.

Reasonable?

She also stated that the baby doesnt know me and isnt comfortable around me.
Last weekend she fell asleep on me!
Shes always happy around me and never crys anymore she just plays with my keys phone etc or watches in the night garden on tv!

she also said what if she gets ill whilst she is with me? Well ill do the exact same as she would do!

I will look at a parenting course should the court want to refer me to one.

This is so hard upsetting and difficult. I just want to see my daughter! Truly the most painful experience ever.

OP posts:
WrappedInABlankie · 07/01/2015 18:19

Just go to mediation.

You've asked for more she's said no. There's no reason for her to. Maybe a third party not in involved will make her see sense. If not. Court

Faffyduck · 07/01/2015 18:22

Okay play sensible. Vent to us... But cool and calm to her. Don't argue now - you'll play right into her hands

Book mediation.

Palooza · 07/01/2015 18:22

You are being unreasonable. The baby's mum is nervous. Her concerns make sense from the POV of a first time mum of a 6.5 month old. Why not say "well you come along too then, taking a back-seat", to the mum. Then she can see you feeding the baby, changing the baby etc. Then you can build from there.

Presumably the baby fell asleep on you/plays/watches TV comfortably WITH HER MUM OR GM NEARBY? Since you've never been alone with her? So how can you or anyone know how she will react to four hours with you without her mum or GM?

You need to be sensible.

dazedandconfusedagain · 07/01/2015 18:27

It's CMS now not CSA they are closing up and don't take any new cases. CMS take all new cases. If you use them to calculate liability and pay direct to your ex then there are no fees. If you refuse to pay or miss payments and they have to enforce and collect the money then you pay 20% extra (to the CMS) on top of what you are liable to pay. She then pays 4% of what she receives as her few to CMS.

dazedandconfusedagain · 07/01/2015 18:30

You should be paying 17% of your gross income (before tax and NI and other deductions). If you're only paying 15% of your net income then you're not paying as much as they suggest as a minimum.

dazedandconfusedagain · 07/01/2015 18:32

See a solicitor. She is being unreasonable. Why supervised? She's having you on and controlling you.

VoyageOfDad · 07/01/2015 19:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cowapjn · 07/01/2015 22:47

@palooza - i have spent 6.5 months already with my ex girlfriend taking a back seat whilst i am with the baby. I even tool the baby swimming and she watched! Can you not understand how frustrating it is that my contact levels have not increased at all? I am still on 3 hours max a week that is supervised?
Im no threat to anyone, ive settled the baby, played with her and made her giggle loads, settled her, fed her, changed her all i need to know is when to feed her and how much to give her which is information the ex could easilly provide to me.

I am going to enquire about mediation as i know she will not attend and then a form can be filked in to the court.

@Voyageofdad - 7 years old really?' What age did you start doing overnights?

Apologies anyway im not even bothered if i do not receive a reply its just good to get things down and vent!

It just feels like its taking over my life and its all i think about 24/7!
My daughter is constantly with her mum and even when i do get my 2 hours she is still there! Its not even like she willl go and relax in the bath or get jobs done and im made to feel im being watched over in case i harm her or something!

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 07/01/2015 23:26

Can you take time off work and speak to health visitor ? Go to an app to t show willing. Parent g classes more value for toddler hood.
Try small steps ask to take her to library or soft play any Saturday baby and dad groups ? Then try increase hours.
Ask to take her to visit your parents. Keep plugging small steps towards getting time on your own so she can see baby is fine.
visit local contact centres ours was fine. Pleassnt with toys etc You might find contact centre gives you more freedom in a way.as she won't be watching you it will be someone independent who can then tell her look it s fine.

Cowapjn · 07/01/2015 23:55

Im going to look at parenting classes not that i feel that i need them and i do kind of feel like its insulting bit if it makes me look good to her and in court im all for it!

I think from now on its going to have to be somewhere like a play centre.

Its just frustrating as ive spent 6.5 months doing this already! So it doesnt fill me with confidence that things will get better any time soon!

OP posts:
AmantesSuntAmentes · 08/01/2015 01:26

Im going to look at parenting classes not that i feel that i need them and i do kind of feel like its insulting bit if it makes me look good to her and in court im all for it!

Good for you. Proaction is the way forward.

Your local Sure start/ children's centre and health visitor would probably be a good place to ask advice about an appropriate, age specific course.

Otherwise, just Google 'baby parenting courses'. There are loads out there!

AmantesSuntAmentes · 08/01/2015 01:26

Im going to look at parenting classes not that i feel that i need them and i do kind of feel like its insulting bit if it makes me look good to her and in court im all for it!

Good for you. Proaction is the way forward.

Your local Sure start/ children's centre and health visitor would probably be a good place to ask advice about an appropriate, age specific course.

Otherwise, just Google 'baby parenting courses'. There are loads out there!

AmantesSuntAmentes · 08/01/2015 01:26

Im going to look at parenting classes not that i feel that i need them and i do kind of feel like its insulting bit if it makes me look good to her and in court im all for it!

Good for you. Proaction is the way forward.

Your local Sure start/ children's centre and health visitor would probably be a good place to ask advice about an appropriate, age specific course.

Otherwise, just Google 'baby parenting courses'. There are loads out there!