Did you drift apart from your friends?

[loafofbread]

I'm a first time mum to a 5month old and today met up with my friend of many years for Christmas. She's in a long-term relationship with a woman and has no children with no desire to have any.

Before I fell pregnant I'd probably travel the 50 mile journey to visit her where she lives in the valleys once a month or so. We'd go for a meal in the village, have drinks and I'd stay over.

Since DD came along, DH and I have met up with them on several occasions, but I just find them so unaccommodating of our child. They regularly choose venues which arent baby friendly and I guess they're so used to me singing their tune, they get irritable with me when I say no to their choice of venues.

They were in our town over Christmas so we asked if they could pop over to our house to swap gifts etc but they said they were too busy and asked us to go to them the following day instead (today).

On our journey, we hit really thick fog over the steep hills and I got anxious at having DD in the car so we turned back. After our first ever argument over the phone about us turning round, my friend agreed to.meet us half way. She arrived with the most thoughtful, beautiful gifts for the 3 of us but I couldn't help but just feel sad and awkward the whole time after our argument.

We really have nothing in common anymore and have drifted apart. She made so much effort with our gifts but just doesn't understand how life changes when you have a baby, nor does she really get the concept of 'busy' and it is getting under my skin. Her life is so free and simple compared to our busy lives now that we have DD, I don't understand why she can't be more accommodating rather than expecting me to put myself out like before. I've explained but she just doesn't 'get it.'

How did you deal with drifting apart from close friends after many years? Is there a way we can remain friends without me constantly feeling annoyed when making arrangements?

Excellent post handson1, particularly this bit:

'When you say child free friends dont understand the meaning of busy or havent got a clue (someone up thread said that) to me that sounds patronising'

Parents are not the only people who are allowed to have busy, full, challenging lives. It just sounds like competitive martyrdom and suggests that your busyness is just so much more important than theirs. Busy doesn't have to equal 'non-stop drudgery'. Like handson1says, everyone has made their choice. Of course, everyone is entitled to complain and to feel exhausted and to have a good moan but why the tone of resentment towards people who have made different choices? There seems to be a feeling that people without children all lead charmed lives, reclining on cushions and being hand-fed grapes all day long!

Non-parents who complain about parents are often accused of being jealous and that's what the comments on here about childless people not having a clue, and not knowing the meaning of busy, suggest to me - jealousy and resentment.

Sorry about the stupid question marks, no idea what happened there!

My closest friend is child-free.

We remain close because we deliberately do not do family days, or things that involve DH or DC.

I love our time together.

Agree about the "busy" comment, pre-dcs I actually used to have a much busier life, often had work days that were 13 hours in the office with evening work commitments, all the non-dc jobs I have now still had to be done, and usually a much busier social life. Life with dcs is much more laid back!

Oh and yes, she is far busier than me. Catching her in the UK is a trial.

But she is more free in many ways and has always appreciated any child care issues I have had.

Oh and it's worth noting that it's not just dcs but any life change that can end friendships, it's just having dcs is the one that's the most dramatic change in a short time frame and the one most people experience.

Another friend went through something similar when her DH have up a very well paid city job to retrain as a teacher. They didn't have dcs to stop their social life, but their income dropped dramatically (particularly at the start when he did the pgce), and he had a lot of studying to do in the evenings and weekends, they couldn't join in with expensive nights out/trips away or have as much free time. She has said quite a few people they thought were good friends lost touch, others just accommodated cheaper nights out that weren't all nighters.

Different friends will have different pressures at different times, good friends fit round it, fair weather ones go.

It is odd, you seem to see my opinion as that of a childless person because I don't agree with you. I did not say that wanting a child friendly place to meet was a lot to expect, clearly it is essential if you have a baby with you. That along with all your other expectations to me do seem like a lot though.

I think what you wanted to hear, was lots of people saying, that yes, non parents just don't get it, and friendships will always drift. That is just not the case. I was trying to be helpful, but this is making me cross now so I will bow out, before I say something I will regret.

Sorry but this thread has done nothing except to highlight 1) why I probably don’t want children and 2) Why I am dreading all my friends having children.

OP- You know you don’t have to turn into a boring, baby making vessel once you have a child right? You CAN still do some of those things you mentioned above that now seem so alien? You CAN still be your own person and a fun friend to others, NOT just your daughter’s mother.

I can understand your point to an extent and yes, you clearly aren’t going to be as readily available etc now as you once were before your DD came along, but it sounds as though you are losing sense of everything you once were, everything that your friend liked about you throughout your long friendship, it doesn’t have to be like that. Enjoy your daughter, make friends with other parents, but when the time is right, get a blummin babysitter, or let her dad have her for an evening, go over and see your friend, have a nice meal, chat, get drunk, have some FUN and show her that just because you’ve had a baby, it doesn’t mean you’ve completely replaced yourself in the process.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but all too often you see mum’s becoming a shadow of their former self, who drone on about nothing but babies, baby milk/sick/poo/sleeping regimes/nurseries/teething etc and it’s just so unnecessary.

I agree that the 'busyness' argument is a bit patronising too.

I have one young DC. I struggle to catch up properly with my friends because of logistics more than anything else, making sure that DP is around to look after DC, juggling childcare with work and family commitments.

However I have childless friends who are a hell of a lot 'busier' than I am at some points during the year.

Becoming a parent can have a big impact on your friendships for many, many reasons. A good friend will understand this, whether they have their own DC or not. But parents don't have a monopoly on tiredness, busyness or stress.

And thinking that "you, my childless friend, aren't possibly capable of understanding my life or of being anywhere near as busy or as tired or as stressed as me" are one of the reasons why friendships change.

I most definitely grew apart from a huge group of friends when I had DD. My life changed very dramatically in a very short space of time (I went from a single life to one with three children - two DSCs and a baby) and I just didn't live on the same lifestyle as my friends from my previous life who were extremely busy with international careers/long hours at work/every weekend away in another European country.

I also think one of the reasons why you aren't getting quite the answers you want or expect, OP, is that you say things like: It's hard to be anything but mum for me at the moment. I don't have anything interesting to say, I don't know what's going on in the news and I have no idea what song is at number 1, I also hate being away from DD.

I don't think that this is actually how all, or even most mums, feel. I said earlier how yes, things change and you watch less telly, read less books, see less news, and your conversation naturally changes. But I personally don't feel that feeling as though you are purely mum and hating being away from your baby for a few hours (or, similarly, turning a car around in the fog) is what all parents do.

Yes very sadly so.

I have fibromyalgia and people just don't understand how it affects me so one by one they all disappeared .

I still really miss my ex best friend.
Really miss her. It's still hurts me.

Amon - you do realise mums, new mums in particular - generally like and want to be around their babies?

I think when some child free people see mums as being "obsessed" with children they don't seem to realise that babies need 24 hour care and, generally, the mum provides most of that, especially in the first few months. It's not optional.

Yes, but if that's all they want to do and totally lose sight of everything they were BEFORE having DC, then, to me, I think that is ridiculous and unnecessary. What about their DP's? They entered a relationship/marriage with someone and then, after a DC, now have a relationship/marriage with someone entirely different. I understand that you marry for better or worse, through good times and bad and it is a partnership, you are meant to support each other, including things like children. BUT, I honestly think boring, obsessive mums could be of the reasons so many marriages/relationships are breaking down.

I have said it before and I will say it again, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CHILD, DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T STILL BE THE PERSON YOU WERE BEFORE THE CHILD, MAYBE NOT ALL OF THAT PERSON, BUT STILL A GOOD MAJORITY OF. I know a fair few mums who are still fun, who still have their own hobbies and interests and who are still people in their own right. If only everyone was like that.

The problem is that parenthood is in many ways extremely boring. I for one am much more boring as a result of it. My head is full of tedious child-related stuff.

Do you have a DC Amon?
A lot of mothers do lose themselves in the early years for a variety of factors.
A child isn't an accessory - a child had a deep impact on financial, psychological, social, emotional and physical functioning.
Many mothers get themselves back but it DOES take time.

OP, you could put the radio on and find out what is in the news and the charts....

Mary, and blessed, totally agree. We had a household drop in income a few years ago and it was remarkable to see which of our friends adapted to the new situation where we had a lot less cash to throw around, weren't going away on weekends as we had been, and who faded away from our lives rather than make any adjustments to fit in with our new style of living.

One clear marker for me is that the friend didn't pop in to deliver presents while in the OP's town (which could have been an easy quick chat over coffee and job done) but then got stroppy when OP didn't want to make a journey to her in fog. Take the baby element out of the equation and how is that even reasonable? Friend might have been initially miffed but any reasonable person would have thought 'fair enough, I didn't make it to hers the other day so I can't really complain'. Friend seems to want OP to do, if not all the running, at least more of it, and there has to be more give and take when a situation changes.

And yes Amon a lot of mothers do become "shadows of themselves" for a while for all the factors iv mentioned.

The percentage of mental health difficulties among young mums is on the increase and is becoming a real worry - attitudes like yours do not help.

Amon, I hear your frustration and I do know a few women like that, who seem incapable of talking about anything but their kids. They don't all have babies or little ones either - the first person who came to mind has a 15 year old son! Its very frustrating.

My best friend has a 2 year old, and she has definitely not become one of those mums. We talk about loads of different things when we get together and I do feel that she is still very interested in my life. I am happy to chat for a long time about her daughter because I adore her and genuinely want to hear about how she is doing. However, I'm also aware that I have an advantage in working with children, and knowing a lot about child development, so I genuinely do find it exciting that her little one has started using plurals, or can climb stairs by herself, or whatever. But I know that for most people, that level of detail would be extremely dull, in the same way that it would be dull if I started explaining the colours and consistencies of my nail varnish collection for example (one of my hobbies!). Some people are incredibly self absorbed, and becoming a parent just intensifies that, despite all the protestations about selflessness and maturity.

Amon, perhaps some of these women have crappy partners who leave them to do all the drudge work and then moan that they aren't party animals like they used to be. Your post does rather assume that men should just get to carry on regardless after having a child but the woman has to do the work while making sure she doesn't bore them with dreaded baby talk

Mother - boring?

Wow 10 years on and I still don't have time to get bored.

'Some people are just incredibly self absorbed' - THIS. It doesn't confine itself to parents of young children.