Did you drift apart from your friends?

[loafofbread]

I'm a first time mum to a 5month old and today met up with my friend of many years for Christmas. She's in a long-term relationship with a woman and has no children with no desire to have any.

Before I fell pregnant I'd probably travel the 50 mile journey to visit her where she lives in the valleys once a month or so. We'd go for a meal in the village, have drinks and I'd stay over.

Since DD came along, DH and I have met up with them on several occasions, but I just find them so unaccommodating of our child. They regularly choose venues which arent baby friendly and I guess they're so used to me singing their tune, they get irritable with me when I say no to their choice of venues.

They were in our town over Christmas so we asked if they could pop over to our house to swap gifts etc but they said they were too busy and asked us to go to them the following day instead (today).

On our journey, we hit really thick fog over the steep hills and I got anxious at having DD in the car so we turned back. After our first ever argument over the phone about us turning round, my friend agreed to.meet us half way. She arrived with the most thoughtful, beautiful gifts for the 3 of us but I couldn't help but just feel sad and awkward the whole time after our argument.

We really have nothing in common anymore and have drifted apart. She made so much effort with our gifts but just doesn't understand how life changes when you have a baby, nor does she really get the concept of 'busy' and it is getting under my skin. Her life is so free and simple compared to our busy lives now that we have DD, I don't understand why she can't be more accommodating rather than expecting me to put myself out like before. I've explained but she just doesn't 'get it.'

How did you deal with drifting apart from close friends after many years? Is there a way we can remain friends without me constantly feeling annoyed when making arrangements?

Sorry, morley, that wasn't aimed at anyone on this thread

haha, no problem Maeby! I'm probably more sensitive than most because, whilst I haven't got children, I would have loved them (it's not possible).

My friends know that so it makes it even worse when that is all they talk about

xx

No, not aimed at anyone - just a general observation.

And I'm sorry your friends are insensitive and a bit crap, morley.

I have stayed friends with all my old friends but I don't think motherhood changed me too much. I still do all the going out, pubs and clubs, trips away, boozy meal meet ups type of thing. I depends what kind of mum you are as I still wanted to be myself as well as a mum.

I found it easier to maintain relationships with my child free friends than those with children. It's surprising how many people have different parenting styles and sometimes it can feel like a real chore being around people who parent in a certain way and if you are at opposite ends of the spectrum you can drift apart. On the other hand I love spending time with my child free friend, she doesn't judge me or my children and the conversation doesn't revolve around schools and parenting.

Haha. So true SomethingOnce.
The non-parents views on here are quite telling and yet again just reinforce the divide between women who have families and those who don't. Makes me feel quite sad.
of course I expect child friendly places to meet when I have my baby with me. But is this really a high expectation hibernation? Am I really expecting 'a lot.' Again,your thoughts just reinforce the idea that we're on entirely different pages in our lives. You would clearly see it as an inconvenient expectation, for me, it's a small and obvious obligation.
Morley 'give and take on both sides' it really doesnt work.like that when you have children! Again, I think it's hard for people to understand the ties and the very natural 'expectations' of motherhood itself.

My child-free work colleagues found my pregnancy boring too maeby! Weddings were much more interesting. Pregnancy is such a lonely place. So is maternity leave without like minded people.

Abbey... appreciate your honesty! Helps shed some perspective on my own experiences, even if it is harsh, I reckon that's true of many women. Maybe even me once.

Morley: just read your last post. Really sorry to hear that too. It must be difficult if conversations revolve around children when with your friend. Hope they are sensitive to your feelings.
I think it's easier for women to break away from mum mode when children are a bit older.

Don't you think you can stay friends but just wait a short while and go and stay at hers again? That way you have best of both worlds

I've been on the other side of this, as don't have DC.

In my experience I've grown a bit apart from some friends after they've had children, but it tends to be more as a result of just having less time and logistics being a bit harder. (Likewise I've grown apart from friends where our lifestyles have developed in different directions for other reasons - it's sometimes sad, but I think it's fairly normal.)

I'm sure I've not always gotten it right when making suggestions to friends with young DC and they've had to explain why (and we'd do something different). One thing that jumped out at me was 'doesn't understand busy'. When you explained things were unsuitable etc., did you explain what / suggest alternatives? Or was it more along the lines of explaining how busy you are and that she needs to put herself out a bit more? If the former I can see why that's frustrating, but I could see why the latter would not go down well.

In general I would consider whether you enjoy each other's company. If you still enjoy the time you do spend together then it may be worth persevering. If you are struggling for conversation, then if may well be that the friendship has run its course.

The first few years of parenting is like being in the midst of a crisis - a good one, but one that means you have less time and energy and are in survival mode much of the time. IMO a mature, kind child free friend will recognise that and realise that they have to cut you a lot of slack. If they don't realise that it's very disappointing and it can kill the friendship.
I do think child free people generally don't have a clue. When DD was little she barely slept, didn't take a bottle and screamed if held by DH. My "free time" consisted of desperately trying to get an hour's sleep on my own while DD screamed downstairs before going back to holding her for the remaining 23 hours of the day. I literally did not have a single genuinely free minute all week. That's what busy is.

Should add that as they get older it gets a lot lot easier. Mine are 4 and 2 and already my old life is coming back on track. I feel less bogged down in the day to day grind and more up for going out, staying with friends etc. It will get better, but if this friends shows herself to lack empathy and understanding then it can be hard to let go of that.
I have no doubt a few of my child free friends will be back in a few years expecting the support and understanding they didn't give me when their own children come along. They won't get it.

I know this kind of thing happens a lot but it does make me quite sad.
Surely if you are any kind of decent friends you should be able to meet somewhere in the middle.
No, she shouldn't have to listen to you yap on endlessly about the baby but I would expect someone who cared about me to be at least vaguely interested in something that is so important to me.
Some compromises need to be made and it sounds like you are both expecting too much of each other. If i read it right your DD is only 5 months. That's nothing in the grand scheme of a long friendship. Right now your baby is tiny and all consuming. In another 6 months that will have changed and in 6 more months changed again.
You both need to cut each other a bit of slack.
If a friend is worth anything then I wouldn't be giving up on her after just a few months of it being hard to see each other.

It's fair to say many friendships drift .... Others don't.
I've felt adrift from some friends at times, and got closer with some or permanently cast adrift from others.

As a child-free friend, I can only offer this advice ....
-be honest that your life has changed, you can't do "normal" meet ups yet. And you're not entirely sure how long "yet" is for.
-not unreasonable to expect a "child friendly" venue if you bring baby. But equally, it should be somewhere that works for both of you. That might mean you don't pick the heaving, noisy pub of old ..... But equally it's doesn't have to be the local soft play centre
-appreciate that everyone is capable of empathising with how difficult life can be without having had the exact same experience themselves.
-a friendship should be genuinely equal. So, if you've had your first child, yes I'd expect most of the conversation to be about that, the good and the bad. But she'll have stuff happening too - life events don't have to trump each other. Conversations should equal out - maybe not on every exact meeting, to the minute.

• in relation to the first point about not being able to do the "old" friendship, perhaps you'll find a happy medium of tootling along on text / email / Facebook for a while until meets are easier.

I don't wish to be lumped in the with the crowd that don't understand the ties and expectations. Of course having a child is a different live event from getting a new kitchen or new job ..... I don't expect you need to get home to feed the kitchen by a certain time But again there's a happy medium - when you mention your colleagues not being interested in your pregnancy, is it "pregnancy" they weren't interested in, or rather that they were interested in your life as much as you were? I mean that nicely, honest - I read a comment on here a while back about no-one caring about the detail of your wedding as much as you will! And it's true - we can sympathise, or empathise, or whatever, but sometimes the detail of the conversation is not always appreciated by everyone. That's sometimes what kills conversations, then affects relationships, when one has a child for the first time - I love that you've met someone you want to spend the rest of your life with and start a family with, I love that you've got a lovely little baby ....... You'll probably not get get me too interested if you start asking my opinion on baby bath thermometers.

I have found childless friends to be far more accommodating of our family (including our severely disabled eldest son) than many friends with families - because they have no expectations.

In terms of getting irritated about your friend saying she's tired etc - that's just plain daft, I could read your posts about bring so tired and think oh ffs try 15 years & counting of severe disability love, but I don't because a) that would be stupid & b) I chose to have children knowing that you get what you are given.

There's no need to expect your friends to run their lives around your baby. You may not be able to meet them as often & you may sit out events becayse they're not child friendly but that doesn't mean you have to drift apart or lose friends. If I had insisted in all friends accommodating ds1 at every meeting we had I would have lost all my friends. Of course I have lost some (the ones who can't be around him at all) but I don't expect my friends to only hold disability-friendly or child-friendly (for ds2 & ds3) events. They're friends with you, not your child - and there should be room to keep that friendship going even if you don't meet up as much.

And in terms of conversation have different friends. I bumped into a mum with a severely disabled child in sainsbury's today & we talked/ranted about social services for half an hour. I'd NEVER try & have that conversation with someone who didn't have a disabled child.

I rang another a mum the other day & we chatted for an hour about stage stuff & auditions - both our sons are sharing a big role in a very big show at the moment - I'd never have that conversation with a non-stage-mum as I'd sound a boasting idiot.

Last week I talked secondary schools with one of ds3's friends mums as they're both approaching secondary transfer stage. Boring as anything to anyone else.

Then I met with a childless friend & we talked about a shared hobby - boring to anyone who doesn't do the activity.

Just pick your conversation partners & there's no problem. Wrong conversation (about anything) with wrong person & they'll be glazing over.

A few close friends had children before I did, but many are still childless (out of choice). When I was the childless friend, I was bored by constant talk of DCs. When I had Dd I made a conscious effort to keep baby talk to a reasonable level and set aside a time to meet them without her. With my childless best friend especially - a workaholic and party-lover - despite being Dd's godmother, she just didn't understand my new life and we were very close to losing a wonderful friendship. But I made time to see her without Dd and made a point of being interested in her single life. It was a lot of effort sometimes, struggling to find a babysitter, trying to chat calmly on the phone while feeding Dd, but ultimately worth it.

Now Dd is slightly older and more interesting, my friend adores her and actively enjoys spending time with her, rather than barely knowing her.

Try to turn off being a mum and get back into being her friend when you're talking to her or with her. If she's worth it, put the effort it. It'll pay off in the long run.

It sounds as if OP has been the accommodating one to her friend in the past, travelling over there to stay at friend's place etc. Friend may have got too used to this and is now more ruffled than is really justified by the need to adjust things in the other direction, but is resisting just 'giving in' to the person who has a child now.

It will take a while for things to settle down, OP, maybe even five years, but hopefully, if the friendship is worth it, they will.

Thanks a lot TendonQueen and Cailindana. Appreciate the understanding a lot. Makes me feel less guilty for feeling the way I do. Yes before DD I regularly travelled to their house as opposed to them visiting me and I basically went along with anything and everything. The dynamics have obviously changed a little since DD! It must be hard for them to suddenly need to adjust, but they do unfortunately and I don't want to keep feeling irritated when they don't understand why.
As for the 'being busy' argument. I seriously had no idea what busy was until DD.
And I really don't think I'm being unfair to say that their complaining about being 'too busy' gets my back up. When I've been awake since 5am after 3 hours sleep and then don't get to bed until 12pm the following evening as DD has been screaming for 4 hours straight with reflux and I've hardly had chance to pee all day let alone brush my hair. But she updates her fb status to "painting nails and watching TV" after complaining of being busy yet being in your town for 2 days so could have visited you but still expects you to drive through the valleys in the fog ice and snow the following day to suit their 'busy lives' better I reckon most of you would be annoyed too.
Thanks to anyone who has been understanding.

Cigars: hopefully I'll be able to switch mum mode off and be a good friend again soon. But is it bad to say that right now, I'm just not ready? I quite like devoting all my time to DD and I don't really want to change it yet. In time I'll be able to talk about films and shopping whilst eating organic vegan food in a pub over a pint of cider again but right now, I think I just want to stick to my side of the valleys and be plain old mum.That's ok isn't it?

Why does it matter how busy you are compared to them? I don't get it. If I binned every friend who complained about being busy when they're not as busy as me then I'd have no friends left (& I include mothers of babies - especially one baby in that). It's not a competition. If you are too tired to make the trip just don't go, but don't seethe because they're busy as well.

If you want to talk babies & only babies find some other mothers with babies of the same age. They'll probably happily talk babies all day (I did with my first) - but other peiple aren't going to want to. I babies, I've had 3 of my own, I live the newborn stage but I think I'd struggle to do more than ten minutes baby talk these days.

Not sure you understand where I'm coming from Saintly. I also haven't mentioned only wanting to talk about babies.

OP, you are probably going to blast me for this but I don't say it in an argumentative way. You came on here asking for ways you can remain friends etc but you only seem interested in (and only thank) the posters that entirely agree with you in your views that your friend is in the wrong.

If anyone gives a different view, from maybe a child free perspective, you jump on them and just say that they don't understand. You don't seem to want the views of people that disagree with you. You even say ‘thanks to anyone who has been understanding’ so, by definition, ‘no thanks’ to anyone that has taken time to post on your thread with a slightly different view?!

I'm sure you are absolutely busy and more tired than you have ever been but that isn't limited to having a child. I have been up since 5am to get to work after falling into bed at 1am after an exhausting work day yesterday. But that’s my choice, as it was your choice to have a child, I don’t criticise my friends for ‘not being as busy as me.’ We just find a middle ground – a place to meet that is convenient for everyone and the talk is about what’s going on in everyone’s life (whether that be babies or no babies).

When you say child free friends ‘don’t understand the meaning of busy’ or ‘haven’t got a clue’ (someone up thread said that) to me that sounds patronising. Why should their complaining about being busy ‘get your back up?’ They didn’t force you to have a child and if they choose to be busy in their life with ‘luxuries’ as you call it then that is their choice. Mothers don’t have ownership of the word’ busy’ and how we all choose to be busy is up to us.

So perhaps try what someone up thread suggested, try and meet in the middle once a month, just the two of you, to retain your friendships – you can tell her all about your new life and how busy you are with the child and she in turn can talk about her life and how busy she is with her life choices. And support each other, after all that’s what friendship is about isn’t it, not scoring points on who is the busiest.

Hope you get your friendship back on track x

Op, I went through this, and what strikes me that you used to be the one who did all the work in the friendship before, now you just can't, the friendship is floundering.

When I had dc1, most of my friends had dcs already or had dcs with 18 months (a frighteningly high number of us have dcs in the same school year even though we range in age and length of our relationships/marriage before getting pregnant), but 2 where single and childfree, both 5 years on still are.

One lived up North and I was in London until 8months pregnant. She was an old school friend and came to visit regularly, we'd have a lot of fun. She came to visit my new "outside m25" home when dc1 was 4 months and she's not been back since, I couldn't do the going round tourist stuff or shopping all day followed by cocktails and posh restaurants in the evening. We sort lost touch and it became clear, I was her London friend who entertained her, living in Home Counties with a smaller world and a lot less money (so couldn't do the posh stuff anymore even if I could leave dc with DH), and we drifted.

Other friend lived in London and while pre-dc we did used to meet up in art galleries, we usually just gossiped walking round for a bit then went to eat cake in the cafe while she told me the latest angst in her overly complex love life. Now she comes to my house, brings cake with her, plays nicely with my dcs the afterwards tell me the latest angst in her overly complicated love life.

Basically, I have less time, energy and a lot less money - and the cynic in me thinks the first friendship would have died without the London flat and cash even if it wasn't dcs that caused it. If the friendship was one sided with you doing the "work", the accommodating, then it's dead in the water now you just can't do it the same.

If she's prepared to compromise in the way your friendship is conducted, coming to you, eating in different restaurants etc, then it'll last (and in another 6-12 months you'll be a lot freer to leave dc, have more energy etc), if she's not, then your friendship will end.

No I don't understand where you're coming from! Ds1 (big burly teenager who needs constant supervision) was up from midnight until 5am last night. So I would be a bit with a mother of a baby going on about a few months of sleepless nights to me. I would be insane to get the hump about it though! Or to get competitive about it.

Yes I lost friends who can't accommodate ds1 at all but your friends don't sound in that category. She did drive half way & meet you iirc etc. Of course you're not going to be to meet as often or go to the same places as you used to but unless she starts actively bitching about that there's no need for it to be a friendship breaker. The friendship can change.

As others have said there's a half way point. Meet your friends less often in different places & talk about babies to other people & hey presto it's problem solved.

Oh and the same can happen to dad's! DH and his friends used to do regular weekends away, do stuff like just go wherever in the world rugby was being played, drink excessively a lot. They meet up in the city after work "for just one before the train" and be staggering in at 3am before being back at work in the morning.

After dcs, some friends drifted away as DH kept saying "sorry, can't join you", but others have remained, meeting for lunch as they all work so close to each other rather than post work drinks, coming over to cremate food at ours for BBQs etc. (and you get great Christmas presents when single city boys drunkenly stagger into hamleys and buy whatever they think looks cool for their friends kids! )