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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Parenting conflict with dh

131 replies

pebblepots · 28/12/2014 00:48

I'm just hating the way my dh parents sometimes.

Our dd has just turned 3. Here are some examples of things that are upsetting me:

He was getting her ready for bed a few nights ago and she was lying the bed being uncooperative with putting her nappy on and kicking at him.

He ends up trying to force her to put it on, I went to up there and he was holding her upside down by her ankles to stop her kicking. I helped get things calmed down a bit and the nappy on, then retreat again (he gets annoyed when I interfere and 'undermine' him). He ends up smacking her as I think she kicks him again and leaving her crying for me to go up and sort out.

Tonight he was getting her ready for bed again and I can hear it escalating, she has hit him. I can hear him saying 'No bedtime story tonight' 'I'll shut you in the dark' 'you're being horrible' - this does not help, just escalates the situation more. He is berating her and going on and on, using language that she really won't understand.

She does not kick me when getting ready for bed and of course I don't think this is OK but it is the way dh deals with these things, it is just unpleasant and does not work.

He makes threats if she doesn't do as she is told straight away, such as coming to get shoes on as we are going out, 'right we will leave the house without you, we'll leave you here' which I disagree with as they are cruel, inflammatory (not to mention an empty threat) and just escalates the situation by upsetting her.

A few weeks ago he tried to do the naughty step technique with her, of course she would not stay on the step so he ends up holding her on the stairs while she cries and gets more and more worked up. He's probably hurting her by holding her down. He is determined to 'win' and make her apologise (I can't remember what she did now). I wait as long as I can but enough is enough and I go intervene.

So after tonight I am in the dog house and I dig out the Toddler calm book by Sarah Ockwell-Smith which I bought ages ago but haven't read much. This approach really fits with the type of parenting I do, but is so different to his. He expects me to 'back him up' with his parenting, and i try but I just can't if things are getting unreasonable in my opinion.

I said to him that it is worth a read but he just said 'not interested' and walked off.

I'm so sad he is treating our dd like this. He thinks she is naughty and needs sorting out. She is great but like all toddlers can be a pain at times but her behaviour is just typical toddler stuff, he just seemingly can't head it off or deal with it reasonably and goes into head to head confrontation. These examples are probably over the last couple of months, he does have lots of lovely calm and fun play times with her.

What do you think of this? I don't really know what to do, its so difficult to find a time when he'd be receptive to talking. Communications and respect are breaking down between us sadly.

OP posts:
newrecruit · 30/12/2014 23:49

Read that back again.

No it wouldn't. You can't stay with someone just to protect her from him. Where will that end?

Also, your daughter needs to know that you will always protect her - even from her father.

AnyFucker · 31/12/2014 00:13

You know you have a serious problem when you acknowledge you fear splitting because it might mean that your h could abuse his dc unsupervised

please, look at what you are saying here

AnyFucker · 31/12/2014 00:14

You need to access some RL help

I suggest you start with Women's Aid

BeakyMinder · 31/12/2014 06:53

I think Pebble is a resourceful and intelligent grown up who can decide what to do for herself Hmm

SanityClause · 31/12/2014 08:20

Where was it suggested that she isn't, Beaky?

She is obviously looking for advice, or she wouldn't have started this thread. Maybe that's why people are making suggestions?

SolidGoldBrass · 31/12/2014 10:56

You may be able to insist on supervised contact only if you are scared this man will hurt your child if unsupervised.
And if he does hurt her while you are still living together to the extent that she needs hospital treatment, social services may become involved and you may be blamed for not having protected her by throwing him out.

AnyFucker · 31/12/2014 12:58

beaky, op is in need of advice and support

if she could handle all this herself no problem, she wouldn't be on a parenting support site

and she wouldn't be worrying about what her husband might do to his child when she isn't around

are you one of those people who thinks domestic abuse should be hushed up and "kept in the family" ?

frankbough · 31/12/2014 13:23

Wtf, some people on this site talk some right shite, two parents, two different ideas and styles.. There's no guarantee this parenting course will be of any use anyway.. He just sounds like a clumsy oaf, kids especially toddlers, young infants can be incredibly hard to control and sometimes it can turn into a battle of wills and being over bearing is his way of dealing with it, a lot of posters claiming to have the patience of a saint are either drugged up on Prozac or talking rot..
She's basically been advised to tell him to do it her way or it's the highway.. Bizarre... Get a grip...

Only1scoop · 31/12/2014 13:25

Wow is that the parenting of a 'clumsy oaf'

Hanging an already distressed toddler by the ankles and threatening to leave them in the dark....

Aww clumsy oaf bless him Hmm

EmbarrassedPossessed · 31/12/2014 15:55

frankbough - "two parents, two different ideas and styles.." yes you're correct, there are two different ideas and styles. The DH in this situation has a reactive, aggressive, confrontational and chaotic parenting style. The OP is not claiming to be perfect, but has considered some well known parenting techniques and is prepared to learn more and develop her skills. The DH is not even prepared to discuss it properly with her. So I do think that the OP has the better approach at the moment, and no-one should be happy to parent like her DH.

As for your comment about "posters claiming to have the patience of a saint are either drugged up on Prozac or talking rot..". Well, I can lose my patience with my DS - do you know what I do? I walk away for a moment, take a deep breath and do my best to calm down. If I am very stressed out I might even go to another room and leave my DS to it for a minute or two. When I'm under control again, and have decided what I'm going to do, then I re-engage with my DS. What I don't do is smack, threaten, shout etc. as it is utterly counter productive.

drudgetrudy · 31/12/2014 16:38

This isn't just a parenting "style" its verging on abusive. I do understand OP's worry about access if they separate-if he has never injured his daughter he is likely to be given unsupervised regular access and OP's. concerns may not be taken seriously (I have seen this happen).
I think first approach would be to try to improve things. Its worth trying to keep chipping away.
Very difficult situation-backing him up is really enabling. None of us are perfect and we all lose our cool at times but it sounds as if this child's father is always negative and controlling.

iammargesimpson · 31/12/2014 16:40

I think some perspective is needed here, all this talk of 'abuse' 'supervised contact' etc is not going to help the op IMO; she stated that she hates the way her dh parents sometimes. She states that her dh has plenty of calm and fun times with their dd too. The man is struggling with a wilful toddler, let's just try and remember how difficult that is! Kids don't come with an instruction manual and we all make mistakes, deal with situations wrongly in the heat of the moment, etc. you can bet op's dh is well aware that he's struggling and he's not going to be happy with himself because of that.
Op, IMO the two of you need to agree to parent together, yes you will have differences of opinion about it, but when your dd sees two very different ways of doing things she is just confused and will lash out more. Can you leave her with someone for a couple of hours and go for a coffee just the two of you and tell him how you struggle too and you want to work together to plan bedtimes, mealtimes, etc, whatever the flashpoint times are. Once you can agree on a couple of points, he might start being more open with you and you can build from there, that's what has worked with my dh. I do have to remind him from time to timewho the parent is, ie him, not the child! But we are more or less on the same page most of the time. Talk, talk and keep talking and remember it does get easier with toddlers!

Justwanttomoveon · 31/12/2014 17:02

I'm really concerned with some of what has been said. This little girl is 3 years old, the op is scared of splitting in case her h hurts the lo when in his care, she has tried talking to her h about it and he won't do anything about it.
I wholeheartedly agree with AF

drudgetrudy · 31/12/2014 17:40

I don't understand the inconsistency here with some of the posts and advice given on other threads.
The only difference is that the child here is younger -and therefore IMO even more vulnerable.

Izzy24 · 31/12/2014 19:19

Please take seriously those posters who have mentioned the possible consequences of you having failed to protect your daughter.

RunnerHasbeen · 31/12/2014 20:25

There is a lot of over the top reactions here, a couple of times over the last few months he has struggled with difficult behaviour going on and on and on at the end of the day when everyone is tired. OP hasn't really tried to find a middle ground, just opinions and courses that prove she is right. The time out, done properly, sounds like something you would both be okay with, so that is a start.

I also think the reaction to being held by her ankles is madness, does nobody do that sort of thing as a game? It's not abuse, my daughter thinks it is funny and it would snap her from lashing out to playing. I can imagine, if she was kicking me, picking her up and going to DH with a daft voice saying "I've caught a kicky fish, will I put it in the bath, no the pond..." or something. That is what works for both of us, I guess playful parenting might be closest philosophy, but it is more middle ground than asking him to read your peaceful parent book. You should read up on other approaches and find something new all round

Original poster
pebblepots · 01/01/2015 00:05

Obviously I have a lot to think about and have been talking to my mum today about all this as well.

Runner, I have no issue with dd being dangled upside down in play but in a situation of frustration and anger it seems very weird indeed. My dh does not have the emotional agility (or is not in the eight frame of mind) to deal with these things in a playful way, I wish. If I said the words 'playful parenting' he would probably laugh in my face, although that would definitely work with her.

Does naughty step work with all dc? I tried it a while ago and got fed up, she thinks it's all a huge laugh and I cba to keep returning her dozens of times. And dh can't seem to stick to the rules of it anyway, he was utterly dreadful when he tried to do it.

Short term, we seem to have found a solution for bedtime anyway but obviously this is not tackling underlying issues.

OP posts:
Original poster
pebblepots · 01/01/2015 00:21

This is tough as opinions on here are as split as they are in my head

OP posts:
ArsenicFaceCream · 01/01/2015 00:42

Does naughty step work with all dc? I tried it a while ago and got fed up, she thinks it's all a huge laugh and I cba to keep returning her dozens of times. And dh can't seem to stick to the rules of it anyway, he was utterly dreadful when he tried to do it.

No idea, I've never tried it. But, it seems clear your DH is reacting from irritation/temper and lacks patience/empathy so the chances of him applying the rules of anything calmly and consistently seem low.

This is tough as opinions on here are as split as they are in my head

Is it really the description of his behaviour that is undecided in your head? Or just the idea of how best to proceed?

It's perfectly reasonable to call a spade a spade in the privacy of your head and still pursue a diplomatic course, at least initially. I really do think you need to acknowledge that his actions fall below the bar of what is 'good enough' parenting. It will keep things clear for you.

If you go down the road of considering (or trying to) his approach an alternative, equally legitimate 'parenting style' you will end up in a cul de sac of double-think.

ArsenicFaceCream · 01/01/2015 00:43

You sound like a very responsive, attuned, empathetic parent who is deeply unhappy with what he is doing.

Original poster
pebblepots · 01/01/2015 01:19

What I am clear on:
His parenting behaviour is not on & unacceptable, it has crossed the line
I will not be backing him up with stuff that I find unacceptable and I will be intervening where required. His response to this may make the way forward clearer.
I have hit a dead end tackling this head on to try to bring him over to my way of thinking

What I am not clear on:
Is he a parent struggling with toddler behaviour, deserving of support or is he a class 1 arse. So, what do I do?

If its the former: Work on our relationship, better communication between us may help us get on the same page and help him parent better by drip-drip influence to tackling things better, maybe. I take on more parenting Hmm to avoid flash points. There are certainly lots of other things not great about our relationship Sad but I'm just not sure the will to fix them is there, possibly too much water under the bridge. I will probably have to ask him. Not looking forward to that convo.

If its the latter: Ltb
Is our less than stellar relationship making him stressed and miserable and hes taking that out on dd, he may parent better alone.

OP posts:
ArsenicFaceCream · 01/01/2015 01:32

Maybe the way to discover which is to let him know how high the stakes are and how big a concern this is for you? (Unless he will react in a way which is dangerous/worrying in iself.)

But quite honestly, the sight of a frightened toddler should be enough (have been enough) to make an averagely pleasant person reconsider their approach, so I wouldn't be giving him too many chances.

Original poster
pebblepots · 01/01/2015 06:38

Yes I think we need a conversion, no he won't react in a dangerous way, it is not like that. We are talking ignorant & bullying behaviour not violent nutter. This also responds to earlier posts on injuring her, we are a long way from injuries needing hospital treatment, I really can't see it coming to that.

I'm not sure this is 'bad' enough (for want of a better phrase) to warrant contact centre access. Gosh I really wouldn't want that for them Sad

Re. The frightened toddler, when I said about threats to 'leave the house without her' being frightening for her, he said something like 'well maybe she will feel the fear and do as she is told next time'. Hmm

OP posts:
Iggly · 01/01/2015 06:46

Keep the conversation factual and about how you feel and how dd feels or might feel. Does he have empathy!?

ArsenicFaceCream · 01/01/2015 06:51

Yes I think we need a conversion, no he won't react in a dangerous way, it is not like that. We are talking ignorant & bullying behaviour not violent nutter. This also responds to earlier posts on injuring her, we are a long way from injuries needing hospital treatment, I really can't see it coming to that.

Just be careful, he sounds 'at the end of his tether' from your descriptions. He could accidentally cause injury without meaning to. He could lose his temper with you and do something reckless (not necessarily physically violent). "ignorant & bullying behaviour.....violent nutter" is a continuum not two separate categories. If he is feeling under immense pressure he might be even more volatile if made to discuss, that's all.

Gosh I really wouldn't want that for them

But you don't want this for her either - the being dangled upside down in temper, the frightening threats to leave her alone in the dark. There are professionals who would recommend supervised contact in such circs.

It might be a good idea for him to realise that (pull him up short) or it might not (make him more angry/resentful). Only you can judge.