My mother's been snooping

[mummyrunnerbean]

Not sure what to do- basically have discovered my mother has been reading all my emails for months. She's seemed oddly telepathic on a few occasions recently and today I was round at hers and said something about something I KNEW I'd not told her about. I pushed a bit about how she knew and she said that she'd 'guessed' (that I'd sent a photo of DS to my father, whom she is acrimoniously divorced from). After a bit of thinking, I remembered logging into gmail on her PC about six months ago. Popped to have a look and sure enough it was logging in automatically, I then checked her internet history and she's been on it every day after checking her own email in the morning. She's been into all my deleted and sent folders too, and though luckily DP and I don't email each other I saw from the history she'd read through an entire three year relationships worth of emails from an old boyfriend!!! Which from memory included a fair few eye-wateringly dirty ones . I'm so fuming about this- didn't say anything to her but obviously removed the automatic login and changed password. She has history with poor boundaries but as a breach of trust this really beats everything. Not. really sure how to tackle it though as she'll just turn on water works/ say she was worried about me since DS was born or since things have been difficult with my Dad etc. AND it's bloody Christmas next week and I don't want an atmosphere...

I used to fantasise about going NC with my mum. I used to dream there would be some massive situation that just gave me enough excuse to say 'that's it!' In a way there was, my parents got divorced, but really it was an accumulation of horribleness over the years. She emailed saying she wanted to see me this week, I replied saying no. She emailed again saying she wanted to see me ASAP. I replied and said I'd made the decision never to see her again. She emailed saying she didn't think I quite understood the situation between her and dad. I replied saying it was nothing to do with that and it was because shed treated me, my sister and my dad so badly for years that my relationship with her was just stressful and a drain and that I was ending it. Not heard from her since. What a massive, fabulous relief. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Or you could do nothing! You can't undo what she has read, she can't forget what she has learned but if you've now cut off her access to your email maybe she will talk to you more? What she has done is horrendous and a huge breach of privacy but will having a massive row about it actually help or change anything? Your life is clearly much more interesting than her own and she has obviously enjoyed keeping tabs on you. However she will now also realise that you know what she has been doing as you have changed passwords etc. I would keep your distance from her and when she asks why just state the facts - that she has been snooping, how disappointed you are in her and you're wondering whether you can ever trust her again.

My mum did this to me, except it was my Facebook account. Read everything including messages between me and my siblings. I was bitching about her in one as I had a very major health worry and she'd moaned on about crisp when I'd spoken to her, never once asking how I was. She sent a horrible email to my sister saying what bitches we were but carried on reading never mentioning it to me. Never takes about the health concern (which turned out to be major) and in fact pretended not to know about it when I had to have a major operation later. So all in all her reading my private Facebook account turned out to be my fault, there's a surprise :)

I would send an email to a friend (having warned her first) that your ISP has told you your email has been hacked and the police are tracing who it was. Let her stew for a bit before tackling her head on.

GingerbreadPudding you sound very brave.

OP- you have to love somebody very much to put up with this type of behaviour. This is a low as it gets - it's just sick. Some complaints about relatives not respecting pushing boundaries are in the grey area - but this is so far over the line that it's insane.

I would go NC for a while to get the message across to her that her behaviour is not acceptable.

I actually think you are at fault for some of this, you shouldn't have left your email logged in on her computer. Yes I would be annoyed if my mum read all my emails and no she shouldn't have done it but when the temptation is there some people are unable to resist. Internet security is your own responsibility and if you want your communications to be private you need to take steps to ensure they are.

I went hot and cold just reading this, that's so intrusive! Sorry, not helping. I don't think you are up to a confrontation but maybe just a quiet email (!) along the lines of, "Have just found out that you have helped yourself to accessing my emails for months and I feel so let down and disappointed I can't even talk to you right now".

Just a quick note that - for what it means (i.e. police response) it is a criminal offence to access a computer system you know you shouldn't access (ask Gary McKinnon).

Personally, if it were I, I would enjoy the new asymmetric nature of the relationship (i.e. now she doesn't know that you know) and have some fun. Create and switch your real email account, and then use this one for more interesting emails ...

I would send an email to a friend (having warned her first) that your ISP has told you your email has been hacked and the police are tracing who it was. Let her stew for a bit before tackling her head on.

This. Definitely this. Will make her see what she has done, from an outsiderherown_head point of view.

Mariposa10

Think very carefully about what you are saying - victim blaming ? Imagine if we were discussing other criminal offences, and someone suggested it may be in some way partly the victims fault ?

the breach of trust is just hers, it's ridiculous to say that the OP is at fault.

OP, you will have to tell your dp yes.

Is it possible to find some way of withstanding the waterworks? I think you need to step back and maybe try to see her as a stranger. Or practise with him on how to actually have this conversatoin.

When you raise it with her, can you arrange to do it in a cafe? or somewhere neutral? 1) she might control herself a bit better and 2) you'll feel more sure of yoruself if you aren't in her home, plus it's awkward if it's in yours.

I think you need to talk this over with your consellor too because they might have some useful ideas. This is such a major, major breach of trust.

Good luck.

I would have been so tempted to leave things as they were, and then send a couple of emails stating what you have said about her - lack of boundaries, never apologising, ranting about your dad and so on - so that she would read it, all of it.

Then I'd change my passwords.

As it is, you can bite your tongue until after Xmas. She'll know you've changed the passwords of course. Is she likely to tackle you about that?

Mariposa10What a stupid comment. Sounds like you need to make excuses for your own snooping.

I regularly open my laptop and my OH's email/twitter/facebook is left open. First thing I do is click "log out", I don't even think "oooh here's my opportunity it's his own fault for leaving it open"

Victim blaming, fun.

OP - she crossed a line, I am so angry on your behalf. I think if you KNOW she is going to play the petty games and pretend she was worried (why would she be worried about your communications in past relationships..etc, it's not like she was just hand picking specific communications) She's a nosy cow with no boundaries.

I really would write her a letter or an email. Be cold, tell her exactly what she has done and how wrong she is. Don't give her the benefit of being able to manipulate you. She's spent all this time using your emails as entertainment. It's so wrong.

I know someone mentioned a public area, but depending on how unhinged she decides to act she might make a show of it to embarrass you and shut you up :/

Can you trust your mother ever again?. She will likely try and blame you for all this but the fault here is entirely hers.

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, your mother is no different.

She likely did not fully respect your own privacy when you were younger either. I would read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward to see how much this resonates with your own experience of your mother.

I think she is counting on you not to say anything; you have been very accommodating towards her to date but the gloves need to be well and truly off now.

Where are your own boundaries here with regards to your mother; at the very least they seem far too low and need to be much further raised.

Such toxic crap like this goes down the generations and you're the latest to be affected by such nonsense from your mother. Her ongoing depression and anxiety is not an excuse nor justification to have done what she did. Draw a line in the sand and say enough. It is perfectly okay to withdraw completely from someone your mother (who never sought the necessary help, she has indeed done nothing to help her own self here), you do not have to make a big thing about going no contact but withdraw gradually and completely.

I'm absolutely dreading it as I'm really terrible at confrontation with her. I know she will deny, cry, blame, deflect and generally make it unbearable. And I will not get an apology, ever.

So what is the point in having the confrontation then?

My DM is nuts. I don't bother confronting her. All it would do is give her an opportunity to upset me further. I change things so she can't do it again, which you have already done by changing the password, and never mention it. Let her stew, wondering, waiting, dying for the drama and not getting it. If my DM tries to raise it, I sometimes pretend I hadn't noticed the thing at all. Sooooo not bothered. Mwah ha ha!!!!

We are almost completely NC.

My DM has had a terrible life. She also falls into the category of Not that she does anything to help herself I gave up trying to help, she didn't really want it. She just wanted an emotional punching bag when she felt bad.

You have been handed a marvelous opportunity to practice putting boundaries in place: calling her out on bad behaviour, and standing firm in the face of the lies/tears/martyrdom/rage/blame-shifting that she will respond with, when confronted.

It will not be nice, she won't gamely admit wrong.
But you will have done right by stating your anger and disappointment at her behaviour.

a tip: don't get drawn into justifications. Just state the facts, and your feelings. These are things that she cannot twist nor deny: "Mother, you have been reading my emails. This is a breach of privacy, and I am very upset and angry with you."

You can even spell out the consequences, eg. "Therefore, I will not be spending Christmas with you." or whatever the consequence is, if any.

btw, have you ever looked at the book Toxic Parents by Susan Forward? it's quite good at giving hints as to ways of dealing with exactly this sort of thing and boundary crossing

Oh, one more thought. Have you any evidence she has tried sending emails as you. That would be a whole new level of criminality.

Let her stew, wondering, waiting, dying for the drama and not getting it. I agree with this. Otherwise, an email along the lines of Donkeys' suggestion.

I think you are right - you need to calmly and quietly raise this with her. "Mum, I only just learned that you've been reading all of my emails, going back years. I am really hurt and angry by this".

Then leave the silence for her to fill. If she doesn't immediately take responsibility and apologise say, "I need you to take responsibility for your behaviour and an apology would go a long way to fixing this".

yeeesh lurking, that's a nasty idea that needs to be checked out A.S.A.P.

LurkingHusband - you are so right - this needs checking out.

Actually I agree partly with mariposa. If you left your diary open and it was read it is partly your own fault. The first time. The continued times, the re entry and time duration change that dynamic.

And seriously "victim blaming", don't bandy such phrases about. And please do not drag crimes like rape (as the obvious connotation in conjunction of that phrase) into this discussion. That's sick.

Ultimately in regards to IT one shouldn't be leaving accounts open anywhere, home or work. For all sorts of reasons.

Op I'd just go quiet to be honest. Then if and when it's picked up you can just say "because I know what you did. That's all" she knows you know as she can no longer access it. No need to fight.

Boomtownsurprise

She has been a victim. Invasion of privacy, manipulation and god knows what else from her mum as a result of this, and there's probably much more behavior to back it up. The fact you only see victim blaming as something directly related to something as serious as rape..etc is your own bloody problem to get over. You are the only one making the comparison.

Yes people should have the sense to "log out" or "not save this password" on public computers for security reasons. But this isn't some criminal that was out to use her bank details or commit fraud. It is her mum snooping into her life and manipulating her daughter based on what she's read. It doesn't and should excuse her behavior and lack of self control, it;s not like she logged in every now and again when her daughter seemed "off" or down, she used it as her own daily gossip column.

shouldn't*