DH and his refusal to get a permanent job.

[farendofafart]

He has a good profession but values his 'freedom' above his responsibility to his family (me and 2DC). When he has (temporary) work he is reasonably well paid but a lot of the time he hasn't got work.

We actually separated (my decision) earlier this year due to this and other issues. (The other issues are bigger but I don't want them to cloud this post because I'm trying to work out my stance on just this issue.)

His lack of paid work since the separation has meant that maintenance payments have been almost non existent. In fact I have been lending him money to survive. He is working at the moment but he hasn't paid me back the money he owes me and still hasn't paid any maintenance, because he is still catching up with all the bills he couldn't pay when he had no work. He has barely contributed to the children's Christmas presents.

So I asked him tonight if he would be looking for permanent work at his new temp workplace (which he says is really nice) and his response was a flat no. He wants his freedom. He doesn't want a permanent job, ever. This is a man in his 40s, married with young DC, a shed load of debt not including the mortgage, no pension and no savings.

We had been working towards an eventual reconciliation. I just feel so let down now.

Thanks for reading. I had to write all this down so I could see it clearly. He's never going to be the man I need him to be, is he?

Even without you and the children he will have to support himself! Is he an actor?

Funny how some people downgrade being a single parent and looking after a 2 year old full time and working part time to being unemployed and just working a few hours. Op some people have been unfair to you and your ex is being unreasonable.

Daisy has a rep for it. Best ignored, really.

I am concerned that if you are still married, without a legal seperation, you are still liable for half his debts? I am hoping someone can really quickly correct me if I am wrong?
So please be careful of this
Best of luck, xxx

Thats good to know then :D

Someone asked if he has always been like this.

Yes and no. He has always been reckless with money. But for many years (and we were together for many years before we had DC) it was one of the things I would highlight as a positive about him - he always worked and always provided. But the thing was, he was lucky to always have work. And if there was ever a small gap between jobs (hardly ever) we hardly felt it because I was working. But recently his industry has changed - it's harder to get regular temp work now. And our circumstances and responsibilities have changed. Plus, we are getting older and his prospects while he is temping are zero - no promotion, no holiday pay, no sick pay, no pension. No future - at least not the one I'd always hoped for. I always thought he'd settle into a proper job through his temping, but it hasn't happened (although opportunities have been given) and he is now actively resisting it.

hello

It looks like you want one path in life & your partner wants another

I suspect that alot of us would like to give up on our daily life & be a painter, a writer, a musician, a sports person etc. However, most of us grit our teeth & go out to work. If we really want something we do it in our spare time before or after work. However most things will only happen with some sort of positive plan & it takes time, effort & courage to achieve your goals.

I dont think your partner is going to change

If you want another sort of life, start making plans for yourself & your children. Start one day at a time, make short term & long term plans.

Stop enabling your partner to do what he wants in life.
Stop giving him money, time
Stop worrying about him

Live your life !

Good luck

Ditch him. He is a loose, and you don't want your children growing up like him.

As regards assets, if he has accumulated debt, and cannot or will not pay, only he is liable for those debts. You are only liable for things in your name, and loans etc, that are jointly in your names as a couple.

For most couples this is the mortgage and a joint bank account with an overdraft facility, occasionally a joint credit card.

Now, if he does bankrupt, only his assets can be liquidated, but that could include his portion of any equity in the house. So if you have a 200K mortgage on a 220K house, then 10K of that equity is his, and could be claimed by the courts to pay his debts if he were bankrupted.

So, the long and the short of it is you are carrying him. He is treating you like a doormat. It is not what you want your children to think men are meant to be like.

If I were you, I'd start separating my finances, shoring up my life, and either wait for, or start the coming storm. He needs to man because he is taking money from the family that should be going to his children.

Your first responsibility is to provide for your DC. You 'get' that, but your DH doesn't. He doesn't want to work full time in a 'settled' job. That's wrong IMO when you have a child to support, but there's really nothing you can do about it. You can't make him or shame him into employment. But there is absolutely no reason for you to support him (lend him money that you know won't be repaid) when you need the money for yourself and your DC.

Cut him loose. He will only be a weight that drags you and DC down.

Sorry, I agree with Daisy to some extent, in that not just one parent is responsible for the financial well being of a family. He does come across as irresponsible and lazy, but he does earn and he has surely not accumulated all the debt during the marriage on his own. Where have the OP's living expenses come from? Purely her part time work?

I realise its very difficult, but SAHP has to be a joint decision, not one forced on one of parties to the marriage.

And to be honest, it comes across as though the OP only sees him in terms of the money he can earn. It must be awful to be thought of like that. She also denigrates his work - is he a contractor or an unskilled temporary worker? There is actually nothing wrong with contracting, it can be very lucrative, although perhaps less so now than before. Some people are very well suited to it. Theres still a financial crisis going on, lots of people lost their jobs and got into debt.

If this marriage is over, the OP needs to have a good hard think about how she is going to finance her life alone.

Well at the moment the ex is not supporting the child financially at all. The op and benefits are. op has said she will return to full time work when child starts school.

also both op and ex had periods of being a sahp and it was mutually agreed.

I think that part of the problem is that the 'creative' way of life has been extensively mythologised in popular culture, through books, magazines and newspapers. I remember reading countless feature articles on people who were actors/musicians, with a SAH spouse, living in the countryside, doing creative stuff in the barn and keeping a few animals to supplement their income....For the baby-boomer generation, I believe that it used to be possible to live that way and still have a fairly good lifestyle: fewer people coming through universities, the possibility of signing on to cover gaps in employment without too many questions being asked, no student debt, better arts funding and, most importantly, lower property prices. But the idea of it lingers on, even though in reality it is only open to the very talented and hard-working, or those with family money behind them.

Thank you for everyone's responses. I do also appreciate the more critical (of me) replies from Daisy and Thechandler. I need to be able to see all angles of this to make a fair judgement and prepare for the storm ahead (thanks for the metaphor elephantspoo ).

And it's true, I'm not blameless. I've been irresponsible too - with money and with life choices. But I'm trying to take responsibility. I'm trying to change. I have changed since having the DC. I'm much more careful with money. I stopped smoking. I swapped my luxury car for a cheap runabout and haven't changed it for 6 years so far. I buy most of my clothes in charity shops. I have a cheap phone.

He runs an expensive car, an expensive phone contract, smokes and drinks (drinking is a major problem in our relationship - none of you will be surprised to learn that he is an alcoholic. One of the main reasons I left him.)

You need to take responsibility for yourself and your kids

Letting this lazy alcoholic freeload off you is sabotaging that

Stop. Today.

Sounds like you were very similar when you met, then you grew up and he didn't.

You can be 'mum' to him and accept keeping the whole family (including him) afloat comes down to you, or you can step back and just be mum to your DCs, let him stumble and hope without someone taking care of him, he realises he needs to do it himself. (But if he doesn't, at least you wont be relying on him or have him being an extra drain on your resources, even if he doesn't add to those resources)

oh and alcoholic over the festive season with money in his pocket? you aren't getting a penny back of the money he's borrowed from you. Plan for being without it for when that big bill comes in, treat it as a lovely bonus if he proves me (and pretty much everyone else on this thread) wrong.

Sorry OP, I don't mean to be too critical of you! And I hope you manage to have a nice Christmas, despite all this going on - I'm sure you will.

MaybeDoctor I think that part of the problem is that the 'creative' way of life has been extensively mythologised in popular culture, through books, magazines and newspapers. I remember reading countless feature articles on people who were actors/musicians, with a SAH spouse, living in the countryside, doing creative stuff in the barn

Very true and a good point. Unless you have parents financing it(which to my mind is another aspect of being unfulfilled altogether), its not really realistic. I've lost count of the number of people I know who have jacked in their jobs because they find them boring or unfulfilling. And if you try to say to them that most jobs are mainly dull and tedious (even if you are one of the lucky few to get paid for doing something you actually enjoy, such as professional athletes, there are still parts of the job that you might not want to do).

Daisy's argument makes no sense.

Yes, both parents have a responsibility to care for their children, financially and physically. The exact arrangements for who does what need to be agreed to between them.

OPs DH agreed the balance with her and then without renegotiating changed it. No matter if the previous agreement was OP works full time or never works, she stuck to her side of the agreement and he didn't. Which left them all in a difficult situation. That doesn't automatically make it the OPs responsibility to fix the situation by making changes to enable his change of heart.

Very very few people with a family or other responsibilities get to just decide to do exactly what they want without discussing and agreeing how to achieve it while maintaining a reasonable standard of living.

I would love not to work. So would DH. We can't both do that though because how would we support our family? So we work as much as we need to to have a decent standard of living. If I decided tomorrow that I didn't want to work full time anymore and quit my job we as a family would be screwed and DH would have every right to be pissed off. Even though he 'only' works part time (which enables me to work full time btw - wages wouldn't cover childcare for the stupid shifts we both do). If I decided that I was miserable at work and wanted to reduce my hours then we would talk it through and agree a new plan where he worked more and I did more childcare and he wouldn't be pissed off - because him having to work more wouldn't ever have been the issue - the issue would have been if I selfishly made a choice that I liked that hurt everyone else.

Aha. He's an alcoholic.

There we go. That's the reason he doesn't want to work isn't it - because it will cut into his drinking? He wouldn't be able to hold down a full time permanent position because he'd be too unreliable I suspect. The "freedom" thing is just an excuse.

I agree to an extent that financial security is for both partners. However it seems that OP is willing to work and wants to work (as evidenced by the fact that, erm, she IS working), whereas DH isn't. He will work infrequently when and how he wants rather than on the basis of what is best for the family.

Mandatorymongoose
OPs DH agreed the balance with her and then without renegotiating changed it. No matter if the previous agreement was OP works full time or never works, she stuck to her side of the agreement and he didn't

agree with this completely.

I am afraid everything you post indicates he is not going to change..As a parent you are expected to make some sacrifices for your children...It seems you are doing that ..He has made none..

I agree with the poster who said Alcoholic over Christmas will be coming for more money not paying you back.

I would plan how you are going to say no to this man...He needs to know he isn't going to be rescued every time or nothing will change.

He has moved out and it seems nothing has changed If losing his family full time hasn't motivated him to change...Do you not think you deseve better x