DH and his refusal to get a permanent job.

[farendofafart]

He has a good profession but values his 'freedom' above his responsibility to his family (me and 2DC). When he has (temporary) work he is reasonably well paid but a lot of the time he hasn't got work.

We actually separated (my decision) earlier this year due to this and other issues. (The other issues are bigger but I don't want them to cloud this post because I'm trying to work out my stance on just this issue.)

His lack of paid work since the separation has meant that maintenance payments have been almost non existent. In fact I have been lending him money to survive. He is working at the moment but he hasn't paid me back the money he owes me and still hasn't paid any maintenance, because he is still catching up with all the bills he couldn't pay when he had no work. He has barely contributed to the children's Christmas presents.

So I asked him tonight if he would be looking for permanent work at his new temp workplace (which he says is really nice) and his response was a flat no. He wants his freedom. He doesn't want a permanent job, ever. This is a man in his 40s, married with young DC, a shed load of debt not including the mortgage, no pension and no savings.

We had been working towards an eventual reconciliation. I just feel so let down now.

Thanks for reading. I had to write all this down so I could see it clearly. He's never going to be the man I need him to be, is he?

What a loser. Do you really want to be with a man who values his children's welfare that much?

Stop parenting him and accept that he is this way because it works for him, the financial security of his family isn't a priority.

Your responsibility begins and ends in limiting you and your childrens exposure to his financial fecklessness but if you prefer financially insecurity and the constant demonstration that his family isn't a priority in his life, then by all means get back together.

Let go of the person you want him to be and accept the person he is.

I see the MN double standards are at play again. The man is "entitled" for wanting to choose to frequently move workplaces yet it's apparently not "entitled" for the OP to choose to opt out of working therefore making others responsible for her.

If valuing the childrens welfare means working then surely that applies to both not just the one with the penis.

Sorry OP, I think you need to start job hunting again as you obviously can't rely on him and he has reneged on the deal of you having a go at sahping. Temping / Contracting can be reasonably stable and well paid if you are good at your job and there are lots around, but this does not sound like it's the case.

Was wondering when you'd pop up Daisy

Actually, they swapped roles. He was a SAHD for 2 years with her as the bread winner the first DC and then they agreed for her to be a SAHP after the second and for the first time he was the main bread winner.

But don't let that influence you

Joys mum, it sounds like the OP has pretty much had the same two years of not working so its been equal.

Technical she's not a SAHM but unemployed with others picking up her expenses as she states they don't live together. The ex can't be controlled by the OP and if she wants to reconcile then they both need to be on board and have their feelings and desires taken into account. She can't dictate she doesn't want to work whilst expecting him to do something that makes him unhappy. Compromise is needed by both, not just him having to give in because the OP says so.

You can not be a SAHP in relationship where the other parent doesn't want the responsibility of being the breadwinner.

I agree with Daisychain.

You also wanted the freedom to insist you didn't work.

Why doesn't he temp and you work PT so you can share the financial and childcare burden.

Bit rich to say he's a freeloader when you are also happy not to work.

We are not in the 1950s

Unless I've misunderstood the op is now a single parent looking after the dc and the ex is living on his own and faffing about in temporary jobs which leave him unable to meet maintenance payments. We have not heard whether the op is now working or not but surely the ex who lives alone and has a duty to provide maintenance has more reason to reach for a full time permanent role than a single parent living alone with the children of the relationship?

I would say that regardless of the sex of the people in each situation.

Fairy, regardless of sex both parents have a responsibility to provide for their chidlren. Having children living with you renders nobody incapable of working unless a child has such complex medical needs that childcare is impossible.

The parent they live with sets the main example, that's where they learn a work ethic etc but that's going off topic.

The fact remains is that the OP wants to dictate what her ex should do without listening to him or doing the same herself. Opting out of working whilst demanding somebody else does is wrong regardless of sex.

Of course having a child doesn't make you incapable of working except in special circumstances - you're talking to a woman who returned to work when her eldest dd was 12 weeks old as a single parent getting 3 buses to work / nursery and back everyday. I know. I've done it.

All I'm saying is the ops ex is in an easier position to seek full time permanent work and so he should be. She is not unreasonable to be annoyed.

Since when has being a SAHM been considered "not working"?

Lois, forever? Any person not in employment regardless of sex is not classed as working.

Parenting is not work but that's a side issue to the OPs question.

Parenting is not work? Running a house not work? Interesting view, if slightly erroneous. Is work only defined as something salaried? Or if it doesn't include caring for human beings?

Work is something for which people are paid, labour is something people do naturally in the act of living. Work is of course necessary under the present economic model. I live with an anti-capitalist anarchist, and I'm a Marxist. I have run businesses and DP has worked non-stop over the last 17 years, securing better positions and salary along the way. Luckily for me, I can now pursue studying and not contribute a bean, except my unpaid labour.

Earning money and feeding your family is a fact of life, there is no alternative, unless we are prepared to significantly overhaul our present system. Your DH is a waste of space, a selfish dreamer who will most likely end his days in an armchair in a council flat with a tenner on the meter and a few tins of soup. What a twat. Cut loose OP, you have proven you can cope without him. He doesn't care enough about you or your children to do the responsible thing.

Lois! Most people do all the childcare & domestic stuff on top of paid work. Incl single parents. So yes as,daisy said.

It doesn't mean that SAH parents are not working. Ridiculous.

I think both parties need to be in agreement for one of them to be a SAHP, this doesn't seem to be the case here.

Lois, can I assume that you are a SAHM? If so, were you motivated to do that by a desire to parent your children full time or a desire to get out of working to support your family financially, because you considered yourself above normal paid work? Because honestly OP's husband sounds to be the latter and there's a BIG difference.

Please don't derail this thread with hypothetical arguments about the values of being a SAHP. Nobody is questioning that, where both parties are in agreement.

To answer some points.

My youngest is just 2yo so not yet at school. Whilst he is not disabled, he was born with some significant health issues. The decision for me to care for him full time at home for the first few years was a mutual one. DH agreed that it was best for DC2. Happily, the health issues are more or less resolved now. This was confirmed at a recent paediatric appointment, after I had left my DH.

I do work, part time unsocial hours. Whilst I was living with DH this was easy to do because they were hours DH doesn't work. Thankfully since separating he is still supporting me to work by still looking after the DC at those times. However, my hours are few and my income is supplemented heavily by benefits. I do have a long term plan for getting back to full to work by the time DC2 starts school at 4.

Full time

By continuing to lend him money, you are helping him to remain irresponsible.

Is it that he won't look after his children while you work if you don't give him money?

Is it that he won't look after his children while you work if you don't give him money?

No that's not the case. He became desperate for cash and had nobody else to ask. He has had two lots of money (significant amounts for someone on benefits - in the hundreds) out of me. He looks after the DC twice a week while I work.

I actually really need the money back. I had saved it towards a bill due in the new year.

You need to accept he's never going to think of himself as someone who's able to be an employee - I've met many men like this, after a while of talking to them, you realise they think they are actually too good, too special to be "part of the rat race" - be it wanting to be contracters, own their own business, focus on creative hobbies poorly paid work. sometimes you are lucky, they set up a business that's successful, but of course there becomes a point when to expand to the next level you need to bring in investors who'll act too much like employers (putting restrictions on the 'special man'), so often at that point they either stall expansion or sell up and start the next project.

Also normally with men like this, there's someone in the background who they don't think of as as special as them who are "dull" enough to be happy with a job that pays the bills.

You are the dull, non-special person. You get to make his life work, of course he wants you back together, because if you do separate finances, he'll have to face that even if he never pays maintenance (which obviously being the special person he doesn't feel he should have to, that comes under dull bill paying and that's for the dull person - you - to sort), he can't live the lifestyle he wants without getting a full time job.

If you do break up and he has to go back to being 'a wage slave' it will be all your fault for ruining his dreams, not that it's his fault for not really having a sustainable career plan that doesn't involve someone else keeping a roof over his terribly special head.

He doesn't want family life, he wants keeping. Separate completely, don't give him any more money, get a full time job as quickly as you can (not in 2 years) and accept that while your DCs have 2 parents, only one of them is a responsible grown up.

oh and you probably won't get that money back. Sorry. Best you don't plan on it, treat it as a bonus if you do get anything.

He is never ever going to give you the money back.

I'm sure he was desperate - but now you are desperate!
If you hadn't given him the money, he would have had to face that actions have consequences. Unpleasant ones sometimes. Unfortunately you just confirmed that he is a special flower and mummy will always rescue him.

He isn't a special flower, he is a leech. Please get rid and never give him any money again.