why women should mske men wait for sex...Modern dating and dtd before commitment.

[gottafindaman4yagirl]

Opinions on dtd too soon while dating. Been doing online dating for six months after being in a 12 marriage.
Waiting 5-6 weeks before having sex, no sex before commitment.
"you want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him.If you don't- don't be surprised if a decent percentage of men never call again."
I read this on a Evan Marc Katz site on understanding men and finding love.
With modern dating which takes up time, effort and can be a miserable experience trying to find a decent partner.

I am constantly worrying about dtd too soon, is sex really the prize that keeps men interested or gets them eager to get to know a woman.
What if women do wait 5-6 weeks and invest time and emotional in a man to find sexually they are not compatible.
Do men really look down on women who have sex too soon, making it too easy.

Male opinions welcomed
I personally think it shouldn't matter how soon as long as there's attraction, its safe and consented. Women enjoy sex and its always made out that men are always thinking about sex.
I am dating a guy and I want to dtd very early into dating, being sexually compatible is important to me.
Is the man going to feel I was given too soon and to easy to respect me enough to be in a committed relationship.

Hi gottafindaman4yagirl

I don't like the sound of all this perfect girl pedestal stuff which you describe. So he finds you very beautiful? That's really great, but for an LTR or MTR, you have to interact with somebody as a person foremost and not an ideal. Perhaps you can get to know him better with some conversations so that he see you in your full 3 dimensions. That way the issue of exactly when to DTD might be less pivotal.

To be honest in every relationship I've ever had I've slept with them within 2 weeks. That includes a 3 year relationship, a 13 year relationship and various shorter ones. I guess it's just how I am...

What I mean to say is that if I was in your position and wanted an LTR, I'd wait until I detected a balanced respect for me as a person, rather than an ideal however long that took.

I waited 3 months. Worst shag ever. Kept trying in case it was nerves/lack of experience but turned out he was just crap in bed. Waste of time/feelings invested.

also, i agree with the others, this whole ' being perfect' thing and saying he has anxiety, not great on the red flag front. I think, if you are unsure, which you must be if you are posting for advice, then you must not be comftable with the whole thing. Listen to your gut, you know nad are just unsure as to if you are right or not. You are right. Believe in yourself :)

I can't give you THE male perspective, but i can give you THIS mans perspective.

I have dated a lot over the past three years. I have a very relaxed attitude to sex, but that is not my main reason for dating. if it was just the sex, i have had very satisfactory FWB arrangements that i could have maintained and just avoided the whole dating thing, but i am interested in finding a long term partner. I have dated quite a few women for periods up to 6 months. Sometimes we slept together early doors, sometimes after much longer. These relationships tended to have their own rhythm and we slept together when it felt right for both of us. My feelings for these women were based on many different things, the length of time we knew each other before we had sex was NOT one of those factors. (and hasn't been since i was about 16!)

One thing though, if i had met a woman who thought it was her job to 'gate keep' herself from me sexually i would have found that very weird indeed and would probably have put me off. They're welcome to hold those views but i find them terribly old fashioned, gender stereo typing and just not something i want to part of really.

But as the vast majority of replies seem to say, there are no rules, have sex when you feel its appropriate. Seems like a nice adult way to behave to me.

(oh and to the poster who said 'its a hardwired evolutionary fact - i call bulshit!)

OP it depends on what you want and I hope this is a genuine thread and not research for a women's mag

If you are happy to have sex without commitment - on either side- fine, go ahead.

But at least be aware that some men do want sex and not a relationship - and will say anything until they achieve their goal.

If you want a relationship and not one night stands then it's better to hold back because a man who only wants sex may well get bored and move on to someone who like him just wants a shag without all the 'courtship' that could precede it.

But of course there are men who love a conquest - the thrill of the chase- in a way that I think few women do. so they may give the impression they are really into you when they are not - then dump you quickly.

I don't care if that seems sexist because I do believe that evolutionary men are hard wired to impregnate as many women as possible - and move on.

Im with Pinfrocks here.

All those of you who are trotting out the 'i shagged my DH on our first date' etc...UNLESS you met via OD it's completely irrelevant.

If you've been married for years you'll have no idea how the dating work has changed since OD rose in popularity. Dating is not like 20 years ago, it just isn't.

I have done a lot of OD in recent years.

Most men are not looking for relationships. A lot are married, and just looking for a chat, or someone to send photos of their cock to. Lots more don't want a girlfriend...they want a night out in some female company, and maybe a shag at the end, but won't ever see you again. Some want to date, but are terrified of commitment, so will disappear at the first mention of a relationship. I dated a man for 3-4 months last year, waited a long time to have sex (various reasons) after which he decided in effect he would rather be single.

There are men who want a relationship, who are single, normal, and won't do a runner after sex, but it's a tiny number, and most blokes you come across will fall into one of the above categories. Waiting or not makes no difference really.

As to sexual incompatibility, surely it's only the incredibly naive or inexperienced who'd dump someone because the first time wasn't perfect movie sex and the earth didn't move? Sex where there's a real emotional connection (which I think is the best kind) takes time to develop.

Good point velvet the OLD candy store can be pretty brutal...& it's nigh impossible to find those decent single guys - more so in yr 50s I find :(
Took me ages to get my head round the multiple conversations/ multiple dating scenario...I now reluctantly accept that it is so but I hate the idea it's a pick me dance competition
Also I am interested in men my age with shared cultural references etc...but they all want younger women & I can't seem to fancy men in their 70s!

Spot on velvet

Im with you both here velvet and ocelot. Everyone says.... date and enjoy???? really

DadwoodI understand what your saying. I myself am not all about the looks but the whole person. I have challenged the man, he's very respectful and a gentleman.
I have a date with him this week, he actually said he felt he was punching above his weight.

it could be that its all flattery to get you into bed. Thing is, you have no way of knowing at all, because you have only just met him.

I suppose I will have to live and learn, avoid the over complimentary type if its all to get me in bed. Seems like hard work for the man, he's good looking. Over compensating maybe, It is best to not try and second guess what's in someone's head. So many good points from posters, glad for all opinions.

It's interesting this. I think it's an issue, but not in the way described in the OP.

I highly doubt that having to wait longer for sex is going to make a man more interested in a LTR than he otherwise would have been. The complex layers of compatibility that make an LTR possible develop before, during and after sex, and sex is just one of them. I certainly doubt that there are many men around dating any more who would think less of a woman for having sex quickly. And if they do, do you really want to be in a relationship with somebody with such outdated sexist attitudes?

But what is undoubtedly the case is that there are more men than women out there who just want no-strings-attached sex. So if you have sex immediately, you WILL find that that's it - for either one date or a short fling. That's not because the early sex put them off, it's simply because it was all they were after so there's no point sticking around. Sometimes this is not particularly nefarious - they might be genuinely open to the idea of a relationship, but want to get plenty of sex along the way. Sometimes it's more directly dishonest and manipulative than that, and they'll happily give whatever impression they think will get them what they want, knowing full well it's untrue.

I don't know what the answer is. I suppose not having sex for a while might be one answer, since most people only looking for sex won't bother spending lots of time with someone they're not really into to get it.

I remember my brother saying to me, when i first started dating, that i was naive, and underestimated the lenghts men would go to to get laid.

I thought, as a previously married woman, in my 30's with a lot of male friends, that i did know and could spot someone trying to sweet talk me into bed a mile off.

I was so awfully wrong.

You just have to do what you want and what you are happy with.

The thing about the "gatekeeper" idea is that because men find casual sex easier than women and tend to want it more, with fewer strings attached, it's usually the woman who gets to decide when sex first happens. ie, the man would do it straight away if he could, so it comes down to when the woman is ready. The woman therefore becomes the "gatekeeper" by default.

This is not a question of imposing sexist attitudes on people, it's just the way it is. It may be that both sexes are this way because they've been conditioned by sexist attitudes, I don't know. And of course it's a generalisation and there are exceptions. But it's easy enough to observe, consistently across cultures, ages and situations, that that's how it is - for now and the foreseeable future, anyway.

OP- instead of trying to guess what a man wants, do what you want.
I'm not a sex without emotional connection person, so in the past I'd only have sex with a man if he got inside my head as well- first.
This meant I would end up hurt, whether we had sex or not ,if he dumped me. So the timescale wasn't the issue- it was about emotions.

If you can detach your emotions from sex and are happy with sex and no follow up dates or a relationship then go for that. IME men can do this more successfully than women, but that is not to say all women are the same.

If a man only wants sex he may wait for 6 dates before you do it, or he may get fed up waiting after 2 dates. He will still dump you though if sex was his only goal.

I think that if a man is after the prize of a shag, then you will get a good indication by the way that he approaches sex. A selfish lover will take. A selfless lover will give, knowing that he will get more in return the next time and getting pleasure in your pleasure. If he just wants his own satisfaction and shows little interest in giving pleasure, then that says a lot about his approach to you.

Well and + if he's selfish and shit in bed then you wouldn't want to have another go at him anyway!

Velvet, re your last paragraph. I think very few people will dump someone because the first time they had sex was not ‘perfect’. I think most people understand that it takes time to be sexually 100% on the same page as your partner, but you kind of expect someone over a certain age to do the basics right and at the very least the end result being the pair of you having a good time. I have had on occasions first time sex which was so gut wretchedly awful it proved to be an utter turn off. That is not being shallow or naïve, just a realisation that that person is very unlikely to be sexually compatible with me.

With regards to online dating, I am a bit of a veteran of it and eventually met my wife through it. Generally I found that there were just as many women timewasters, freeloaders, mind game players and one night stand merchants as there were men. However I did find out fairly early on that these people were fairly easy to spot and could be weeded out of the process. I just wished that people were more honest about what there were looking for when they were filling out their profiles, is it really so hard to click the ‘casual relationship’ rather than ‘long term relationship’ when you are just after a quick shag?

it has more to do with self-esteem than oxytocin imo.

Oxytocin doesn't make me blind to a man's faults, or just more simply, incompatibility as a couple. But low self-worth would make somebody male or female cling on.

wrt bonding after sex i mean.

I just don't sleep with somebody until after I've already bonded a bit. And that's nothing to do with social pressure or the desire not to be judged, it's because that's what I want, and women are as entitled as men are to have their own 'agenda' when it comes to sex and relationships.

so much pressure on women to be sexual in a male sexuality way. at least that is the case when I was younger.

now i'm in my forties I guess all these young men are gatekeepers to sex !! (joke)