What does forgiveness feel like?

[snowflake02]

How do you know if you have truly forgiven someone?

Thank you, early night I think. Death by a thousand paper cuts is a great way of putting it. Aside from the more serious incidents.

I stopped keeping a diary when he read it.

You're all Fogged up dear snowflake. You don't need obvious to be any more obvious. It's a common twisted wish that an abuser would actually hit and make the damage visible to all. Bloody sad, eh?

Oddly enough, the abused often are damaged physically by the body's reaction to prolonged stress and fear. Panic attacks, insomnia, weight loss, anxiety, eczema, IBS and plenty more.

This man doesn't love you. This man thinks he owns you and you're living a totally self-defensive life atm trying to avoid the inevitable conflict that is brewing. You know he is the enemy. You're dumbing yourself down to try and hide from it. That is the clear view. You know it.

I stopped keeping a diary when he read it.

And there it is. Utter betrayal of trust. Again. Nasty soul, he is ...

I really don't know what more we can say to you. The language you are using here is of a woman blaming herself, changing her whole persona to not provoke him, twisting her own mind in order to keep the status quo even though it is killing you bit by bit, quashing the questions that keep struggling to rise to the surface.

I hope you can get out from under him very soon. Unfortunately, I am very scared that another (or several more) of these "serious incidents" will have to happen before you take that step.

If I am honest with myself, I don't think there is a way back from all that has happened and continues to happen. It is just such a huge thing to get my head round and as was said earlier, it is all about taking baby steps. It does seem though that a trial separation is now inevitable while he has a few months to try and get himself sorted from a safe distance. I'm not overly hopeful that he can though to be honest.

tipsy whilst I get where you are coming from, I have been there (though I don't think the level of abuse I suffered was on the same scale as snowflake.) To people on the outside, they want to encourage the BIG leap. But to put it only in those terms can be overwhelming.

I was encouraging OP to think in smaller steps because if she can get some distance from him by taking that initial move to trial separation, I believe she can make the bigger step from there. Once she has some clarity away from him, I think she can do it. From here, to say 'it's over' all at once, I don't think she's ready and in the interim, I'm sure we'd all rather she took any step to be safer than she is.

OP just work on that first step to give your head a rest, to make that first move. You can get there. Hope you can find some RL support.

I was amazed when my world crumbled how many people were so relieved but hadn't said anything because they knew I wasn't ready to hear it.

Why will I lose my children? And how have they made their choice? Sorry if I am missing something.

There have been plenty of posts about the children, they just haven't been mentioned this time.

Confused sorry you have been here too but thank you for understanding where my head is at. Even babysteps can feel like a huge leap sometimes and I really am doing my best. It's hard to make decisions when you can't think straight or even see where you are going.

It's ok snowflake and ConfusedNC. I wasn't advocating a huge leap, just worrying that it might be forced on her if he decides it's time to come home and OP isn't consciously committed to his not doing that. Perhaps I was just fretting a little. I know the shock of events taking over by surprise is all. My apologies for sounding too pushy!

I've asked for my post back there to be removed as I realise I've muddled up some facts between this and another thread. Not enough caffeine in my system when I posted!

snowflake - I'm a man and don't have any experience of what you are enduring and can't imagine how difficult it must be for you.

But I just wanted to say that I hope you can find a resolution for you and your children. The way you are being treated by him is just completely unthinkable and horrific to the overwhelming majority of men who wouldn't dream of treating someone in that way. I know that's just words on a screen that it's easy for me to type, but I hope you can, in time, start to appreciate that you and your children deserve much better.

Dear Snowflake, I read a nice book about forgiveness. The author says there that the alternatives are not just forgiving or not forgiving- there is also the in-between alternative of 'acceptance'. You strive to the acceptance state when the person who wronged you is not able to recognize that he/she is responsible for hurting you and is not able/or not willing to radically change. Anyway the author advised not to forgive easily and to sell yourself 'cheap'. I do not remember on top of my head the name of the book. I will try to find it for you- if you want. The idea is that before you forgive, the other person must sincerely apologize for what they did to you and must prove that they are actively changing for the best. In other words: forgiveness is firstly the outcome of the behavior of the other person; if he/she does not change to your satisfaction then do not try to reach 'forgiveness' at any price, but try to accept that this is who he/she is, and that you are not to blame for her/his behavior and move forward.
This is the acceptance stage where you feel OK with yourself - without selling yourself cheap by forgiving someone who does not show true repentance. Good Luck dear! I do not want to force you to talk- but talking helps a lot, especially on this forum. Say whatever happened and whatever come on your mind (as much as it respects other people- not the ones who wronged you ..) Your privacy is respected. I am amazed by the number of lovely and lively and highly intelligent ladies who write here- they helped me a lot- especially one of them. I am grateful to all of them.
By the way: Forgiveness does not necessarily mean that you remain in the relationship with the person that hurt you. You might forgive and still move forward w/o the other person in your life. Good Luck!

tipsytrifle I was hoping that was the case!

pompodd thank you. It is good to hear a male perspective. I hope I can one day see that I deserve more, but it is hard when it is all I have known. (Much easier to see what my children deserve)

MaMaof04 I think that acceptance is probably where I'm headed. I accept that he probably cannot change.

Snowflake:
It seems to me that the author (of the book I referred to in my earliest post) also pointed out to the fact that SOMETIMES acceptance alone might not bring the much needed closure to the painful episode of your life. She brought up cases of people who reached the acceptance stage but could not feel any closure. Some of them decided to write a letter to the other person and this is how they achieved this closure final step. So based on what I remember, if you acceptance alone does not satisfy you and you need some closure feeling to move forward, then you might want to write a letter to the other person (or better to the professional that helps him remodeling his behavior). You might for instance write there that:
1- you are fully convinced that the best for you and the welfare of your kids is to move forward without him;
2- you hope that he is considerate enough and care enough for your kids to understand that this is the best for you;
3- you wish him good luck in his journey for repentance/improvement and his new life.
Of course if you feel that you can reach closure without writing any letter then it is absolutely fine. You just bid him farewell in a polite way and you move forward.
Good Luck and Merry Christmas! You and your kids deserve some peace and lot of happiness.

I like the idea of sending a letter via the 'professional helping him remodel his behaviour'. I really like that way of putting it! Merry Christmas you too.

Morning snow. I was thinking of you last night. Was reading this book. I know I recommended to someone previously on mn but not sure if it wad you? Called should I stay or should I go by lundy bancroft. It's really helpful. Even though I'm out of my situation it's still something I dip into, trying to make sense of my feelings.

Really think it'd be good for you. Sections like the pros and cons of giving him time, signs he may be buckling down to real work... Lots about if relationship isn't saved or assessing if it could be.

I was reading about why it takes longer or its harder to grieve for an abusive relationship than one that has just run its course.

Anyway, it's on amazon. Maybe it'd help x

Sounds like something I should be reading, thank you. Could well have been me you recommended it to as it sounds familiar. I will have a look at it now, thank you.