Is he cheating on me?

[anoldchestnut]

For those of you that haven't followed my DH and porn thread here here is a very brief synopsis.
A few weeks ago I discovered some gay porn images that dh had printed off the internet. I was obviously concerned as I thought it might mean he was questioning his sexuality, but (thanks to mn!) got my head around this and began to view it as something potentially exciting as a way of spicing up our sex life. However despite trying to talk to dh about what he wanted in the bedroom dept. got nowhere.
A few weeks later I discovered more pictures and a pack of condoms with some missing from the pack. Obviously I thought he had taken this 'fantasy' a step further and was cheating on me - with either a man or a woman.
Well I confronted him last night, and I can tell you it was the most difficult thing I have ever done. I was shaking, heart pounding etc etc. However I did it and managed to remain calm. He went as white as a sheet and denied that he was sleeping with someone else. He basically said he was bored with our sex life as we usually do oral sex (cos he doesn't like condoms LOL - I have just gone on the mini-pill ironically to try and improve things) and used the condoms when he was masturbating. He kept on denying there was anyone else, and I kept saying 'how can I believe you with the evidence' to which he just kept saying 'well it's the truth so it's up to you whether you believe it or not'. I said if he was honest with me I was prepared to try and sort our relationship out, but unless he was totally honest there wasn't much point. He said he didn't want to leave me or the dcs or our house and I said 'well the next move's up to you'. Basically he then went to bed. He didn't put his arms round me or anything to re-assure, just got defensive and kept denying it.
This morning he re-iterated that he wasn't sleeping with anyone else and reminded me that he had got suspicious when I started wearing thongs and waxing my bikini line. (FWIW I did this cos I lost a lot of weight and started to feel good about my body and wanted to feel sexy too). I said 'yeah but I never hid those things from you'. He then said he's just been feeling really bad about himself and I said if that was the case he was suppose to talk about things with me, not hide them. We couldn't really talk much this morning as the dcs were around.
So basically where do we go from here? Has anyone ever heared of a man masturbating using condoms????? Sounds dodgy to me I have to say although I want to believe him.
There seems to be three possibilities:
1 That he was telling the truth, in which case why hide things from me, and why buy more condoms when there's plenty at home?
2 That he is questionning his sexuality, but again surely that's something he ought to tell me about?
3 That he has been cheating (don't know much about body language but if he was embarassed about the porn or w&nking surely he'd have gone red not white? Going white is a sign of guilt isn't it?)
Whichever is the case he has been keeping things from me, being deceiptful(sp?), and there is no communication, all of which I think speak volumes for how he regards both me and our marriage.
The trust has gone and it will take a long time to build back up, if it does at all.
So what do Mnetters think - is he cheating or not?
Gosh that was long - apologies and well done for getting this far!

peter not the OP!

Is 'peter' for real?
If not congrats for causing a bruhaahaa and trying to upset people why?? whats the motive??
if you are real then you are retarded aswell as nasty.
Condoms don't offer anyone 100% protection and having a gargle with vodka after duuuhhh if it wasn't for the fact that your OH would suffer I would wish a really nasty std on you.
You talk about honesty yet lie to your oh's face if you are so proud why hide it from her.
Sad sad piece of shit I do hope something nasty comes to you in the future you so deserve it.

Missy - I think we are all hoping some bad comes to him. Not very christian is it?

Maybe not but tough. Peter I think you must be so jaded with it all that it must be an effort to breathe sometimes.
You are dead inside just waiting for your baody to catch you up.

Good grief this has really kicked off hasn't it????? I DO hope this isn't a journo who's going to publish this. If my dh recognises himself he would be mortified. If you are a journo please remember there are real people and children involved here - we have feelings.

If Peter had bothered to read my posts he would see I'm not bothered about the porn or the wanking - neither are a big deal. Both I participate in. I originally posted cos I was worried in case dh was wondering about his sexuality. This still worries me. If he is going through this sort of turmoil I'd like to know so I can support him and help him through it. I also need to know for my own peace of mind whether it has anything to do with me.

However finding condoms obviously made me jump to the (maybe wrong) conclusion that he was having an affair hence my posting more.

If he is happily straight, not sleeping with someone else but fancies a bit of self-relief with gay porn then fine, I have no problem. I would like to use this as an opportunity to spice up our sex life if he wants to. I know he wouldn't be comfortable talking to me about this, but as his partner I think this is something we can work on to both our benefit.

However I don't know if he does think he might be gay, if he is having an affair or what. All I know is that he has been keeping things from me and that we don't have the sort of open honest relationship that I need. And I wouldn't dream of taking away his home, children or income.

A very kind and considered post from anoldchestnut, he's a lucky man.

Hi chestnut....

where does one begin?

I did post on your first thread and DID push for you to turn a negative into a positive, re bedroom department.....but, as we know, it does take two to tango, especially the Argentinian variety.

FWISW. I think you are outstanding, in my eyes, as a woman and partner. Balance and patience and resolve. Him being unfaithful? Don't know, but little supportive eveidence IMHO. What obviously screams is intimacy issues, historic for him as you say re his family. Such things can get so wildly mis-interpreted by someone being fearful.

B4 I got to Peter's wise councel, I was a bit concerned on the traps being set. These are damaging and without point. IN this case, you will NEVER be satisfied with the result. If innocent results you will put it down to a 'miss' on the day. If guilty result, it will only tell you what you already know.
To get a bit biblical for a mo., when God said to Jesus, "Never put the Lord Thy God to the test", that was for a reason. Testing people never works in the long run, and the long run is what you are interested in. Phone checking, mail checking etc contributes to the death of a relationship. Where does one go without trust? Checking up on someone is only another way of beating yourself up.

Dear Peter. OR whoever you are. You are definitely not a first time poster. Some of what you say is probably true, but only for some very scared little men like you. Your 'mission isn't designed to be of assistance to the OP. Fortunately she sounds a much bigger person than you (but let's face it, that isn't hard to acheive) and isn't too disturbed by your hatred of women.

Will probably come back to this one as there is so much to say, if you don't mind.

Good post Pann...

really good advice Pann

Peter you are really so wrong and you cannot compare every man to yourself. Just because you can only get your kicks from a prossie doesn't mean that most men have the same morals as you. You really haven't got a clue have you? Maybe you can see the seedy man's point of view but not the decent one's because, lets face it, you have never been decent and loyal have you?

I have ask xDH and NP if they have ever looked at gay porn, no from both of them, i also ask if condoms for masterbation were ever used again no from both, i took it a step fether and ask quite a few of DHs football team (known them for ever so felt it was ok to) and NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.
I think you need to see if he will go to councilling with you as something is very wrong here, and if he is gay he needs to face up to it and deal with it, its not going to go away.

Hands up everyone who is glad they have never met a prat like peter.

Anoldchestnut, my OH - who happens to be a Relate counsellor - suggests that the best thing would be for him to go to counselling on his own rather than your trying to confront him. Hope that helps.

Dont think gay porn necessarily means gay, some straight women will watch or participate in lesbian sex and ime straight men sometimes will too they are just much less likely to admit to it as it is much more tabboo. I think to a very highly sexed open minded person any sort of sex can be a turn on, whoevers involved. And probably especially something tabboo.

However have spoken to dp and he's never come across anyone using a condom to wank and i think he's come across most things!!

The best advice i can give is to trust your instincts, when i was being cheated on i knew it for months i just didnt believe myself cos he really didnt seem the sort and he would tell the most blatant and bare faced lies so i ignored my instincts and he got away with it for months until i was actually told by the other woman. Your instincts pick up on all sorts of little clues and body language and things, listen to them!!

Oh and peter, i really hope you are a real guy cos if you are you're just a sad bastard and i already knew there were plenty of them around its just a shame you somehow ended up on mn but hopefully you'll soon get bored of winding us up to get your kicks and go back to using your computer for porn.
If you're not real and you're a journalist or a troll or whoever and you've come on to a thread of women who are genuinely upset and concerned looking for honest and unbiased support and advice and you've decided to hijack it and lay into everyone simply for the sake of a story or a few laughs then you really are disturbed.
So i really hope you are just the arrogant prick you appear to be.

Hi Chestnut

I hope you are closer to finding the answer you are looking for. I can imagine the confusion and heartache you must be going through. My head has been all over the place this week and i feel like ny heart has been battered and bruised.

I had a long chat to dh this weekend and I reconfirmed that it has never been the porn that I have a problem with but first the rejection and then the lying. I have decided to trust him regarding his work colleague and instead concentrate on getting some stark back into our relationship which naturally faded once our first dc come along. I want to feel sexy again. Being a SAHM has made be feel like I'm a mother, cleaner and cook. I need to feel like a sex goddess in the bedroom again.

I finally convinced dh that it was ok and fantastic to discuss our sex fantasties together and for the first time ever he felt comfortable enough to tell me his. So, we started with things like 'doing it' in a car, etc and then moved onto him wanting us to get a strap on and for me use it on him. Needless, to say I was shocked (don't know how I managed to hide it though) I never imagined that he would like that sort of thing. Does it make him gay? No way. But it is something he wants to try, so heck way not? after all the male g-spot is in their bum.

Anyway, I want to wish you all the best and I hope your dh opens up to you. I'll keep my eye on this post and see how you are getting on.

XX

The strap-on thing isn't that rare, really, at least not as a fantasy. I don't think it tends to be very physically gratifying for the female partner.

And of course the same rules apply as for other anal play - be gentle, take your time, use lots of lube (but beware glycerine-based lube, wtf is up with that!), and wash everything thoroughly afterwards.

oh dear peter you are giving everyone a good laugh which is par for the course for silly little men with no self worth big egos and small penises You poor thing I feel sorry for you not your wife as you sound majorly unhappy and angry with the world.Therapy?

(I'd guess that Peter is so unsettled in his "relationships" with women because he would really rather sleep with men, but isn't relaxed enough to let himself do it ...)

My DH is particularly enjoying the whole "all men who earn over 70K see whores" theme. He did get a Lotus brochure on the bonus date a few years back, so wonders if maybe the IR sells mailing lists of appropriate men to pimps?

Thanks for all your responses everyone.
We've spent quite a bit of time talking and it has really helped. I didn't realise how depressed he was, and for how long. He was saying stuff like he hates himself, and doesn't feel like he has any identity any more. He feels he's constantly playing a role (a consultant at work, a dad/husband at home) and doesn't feel there's any space to be himself. Nothing exites him anymore, nothing gives him a 'spark' that re-affirms that he is a real person rather than being in a role. I said he had to make an effort to tell me how he feels, and that being with me should be the one place that he can be himself rather than a something. He seemed to feel better for opening up, although I am aware that depression takes a long time to get out of and it's a long term effort and encouragement that is what's needed.
As far as the porn and condoms goes I asked him about this too (in bed with the lights off as I knew he would feel uncomfortable otherwise). Basically it stems from the same issue. Sex with me had lost its spark, (he hasn't been able to orgasm for ages) so he was seeking a spark and exitement from elsewhere, and when normal porn didn't seem to give him that spark, he sought more 'extreme' stuff to see if that did the trick. I asked whether it worked or not and he said actually no it didn't. He seemed to hate himself for trying to get turned on from these images, and I almost got the impression that he wanted these images to turn him on as this would confirm to him that he was worthless. I said actually I'm not at all bothered by the images, or the use of condoms, and that perhaps we ought to open up with each other as to what exites us in bed. He seemed quite up for that (and I told him that actually I find a bit of girl on girl action quie exiting - then he told me he'd found some such images on our pc that I'd looked at ages ago so he'd already kind of figured I liked a bit of that!) So we have resolved to open up with each other a bit more and try more exiting things to try and give each other that spark. So Ann Summers here I come!!!! (Oh and we made love and he did come!!!!)
I know it will all take time, especially for him to get out of his depression, but I am determined that with me at least he can be himself. We've done a lot more hugging and holding hands this weekend, and we've decidd to make sure we make sure we spend a couple of evenings each week having dinner together at the table (normally it's on our laps in front of the tv) and try and get some intimacy as a couple back.
So things are definitely looking up.
Hopefullyhelpful - glad things are looking up for you too. Go for it - try adding a leather whip or school mistress type outfit - dominate him, then tell him what he must do to you. Could be fun!!!!
Overthehill - thanks to your dh for that suggestion. I think if things hadn;t have improved I would have gone down the counselling route. I wonder if you'd mind asking your dh whether in his expert view we were tackling things the right way now, and fi there's anything else we could be doing?

That's brilliant, arnold! Really pleased the two of you are talking and I think your dh is lucky to have you. All the best.

There you go. You see? Cut all the accusatory garbage and you actually get a useful conversation! When you got married you did so "For better or for worse", remember? This bit is the "for worse" bit, and the correct, mature approach is to deal with it, and not to assume that it's all a one-way street in your favour.

Remember you need to give these guys a reason to stay with you. I'm glad you've taken on board that installing a telescreen in the toilet is perhaps not the best way forward.

I have to say I am very unimpressed with the general standard of "debate" here though. I read all this stuff about how smart you mumsnetters are supposed to be and, well, sorry but I just can't see it. Where are the threads where you post smart? I've had more thoughtful debates on alt.revisionism and that's full of moronic neo-Nazis, so it's not exactly a demanding standard (although the shrill tone is pretty similar).

At least the holocaust deniers try to marshal a few facts. But here? Gosh, I have a small penis, apparently! Remind me to dismiss the views of any women I meet with small breasts or a fat behind! Sauce for the gander, no?

The bad news is that I am an Oxbridge graduate and a qualified professional. I bring in major money because I do not wish my OH to work. We have cleaners 3 times a week, a gardener, two cars and three holidays a year. Every evening after work, I cook a family meal from scratch, and then I bath the children and put them to bed. Once a week, I order the groceries off Ocado so my OH doesn't have to traipse round the shop. I fix my MIL's car, computer and central heating. I am the SIL she always dreamed of, especially considering the workshy parasites her other 2 daughters married.

And, like all my very similar friends, I stuff whores on a regular basis. It is exactly such as us who have the means and opportunity to do so.

Here are the facts on whores. According to the police there are around 80,000 'transactions' a week in London with tarts. That's FOUR MILLION A YEAR. Assuming a London population of 8 million, that's one per man, per year.

If you take out those who are too old, young, or can't afford it, we're probably up to 3 or 4 each. Persist all you like in asking your blokes if they screw whores. Of course they'll say no. Gay porn? Them? Never! No sirree!

Yeah right. You think they'll tell you? You have noooooo idea. Who was it who said her husband was enjoying this thread? I'm starting to like that guy. Good player.

Incidentally, don't ever make the mistake that paid-for sex is somehow not as good as marital sex. First off, all sex is paid for. Just because it's free at the point of use, it doesn't mean you aren't paying for it. Marital sex is, for the most part, like NHS healthcare: costs you a fortune and you get what they feel like giving you at a time of their choosing, but if you really want quality on demand, you have to go BUPA.

HTH. If you have any questions...keep them to yourselves....

stuff whores?P**s off you silly arse this is mumsnet not nitwit

[sick emoticon] Peter go with your whores (i dont believe you btw) if it keeps you from here

.........and if you do have as much money as you say you do....thats probably the reason yuor wife is with you.You sound vile....to think you could be a mumsnetter's wife [sick emoticon]

Can't believe he's still posting. I'm and what he comes out with. You know just for the record. Some of us wives don't dish the dirt on our h's stand by them constantly, put up with all their foibles as they do ours - but careers on the shelf to be SAHM and Good Old fashioned wives and that's still not enough. So believe me if I want to slag my H off for the fact he had an affair with a new colleague and dragged me originally half way around the world to discover this I will.

Oh and another point of interest. All very well saying we should talk, but what do you do then Peter if your H will not talk about anything and I mean anything due to some emotional hang-up that stems from his childhood which I have just discovered now during therapy?