Prostitution and adultery

[TwentyBore]

Ethical question:

I have a question on the matters of prostitution and adultery which is interesting me and perturbing me at the same time.

Why is it that various aspects of prostitution are criminalised whereas no aspects of adultery are illegal? This disconnect makes no sense to me at all and strikes me as very unfair to women, especially to working girls.

Here is the logic:

• Adultery involves (inter alia) breaking promises, lying, cheating, wrecked families and utter misery.

• Prostitution involves the exchange of agreed services for cash between consenting adults and there is therefore a degree of honesty about it completely lacking in adultery (provided there is no coercion or trafficking involved of course).

Were I a newcomer to this world, I should conclude that adultery should be punished far more harshly than any form of prostitution.

The criminalisation of aspects of prostitution seem to place the working girls involved in a far worse position socially than any adulterer, but do working girls really do as much damage as adulterers? I conclude that they do not and for any working girl to get a criminal record for their profession strikes me as manifestly unfair to them.

In short, I regard it absurd to punish any form of prostitution without first punishing all forms of adultery.

I would be very interested in a polite and respectful debate.

Yep Cailin Dana has said it all I think the same. The idea that it is ok to purchase someone's body for your sexual gratification strikes to the core of misogyny at its very worst.

I don't understand the reference to the "graphic description" either. There were two jobs on the table - cutting someone's hair, or allowing a person to put their penis in the holes of your body. That is what prostitution is. It's not some lovely cuddles in a lovely hotel room. It's another person buying access to the soft and vulnerable parts of your body, the parts that really hurt if someone is even slightly rough with them or does something, even inadvertently, that you're not ready for. There's no point in sugarcoating it in order to make it more acceptable and more comparable to every other job.

Actually good point cailindana, you are correct, in the true sense of the word I am actually condoning prostitution. What I should have said was I am not promoting prostitution. I don't think it is a good thing, I hope its not a path my 20 year old daughter ever goes down.
But in the context of the OP, I believe people should be free to make their own "informed" choices in life. Possibly naive considering the subject matter. I feel the same about legalising drugs.

I think, honestly, it is naive Dr, because you seem to be overlooking the reality of it. At no point does any woman have the option of a few careers open to her and say, "You know what, I won't be hairdresser/chef/airline pilot, I'll meet up with strange men, take off my clothes and allow them to use my vagina for money." You don't want your daughter to do it, because you don't think it's a good thing. You know the reason for that? It's because it's not a good thing. And I would like to see more men saying that. I don't want my daughter to grow up in a world where some men rent women's bodies. I don't want to have to explain that to her.

You are totally correct, and I think 99.9% of men would agree that we should live in a world where no person "has to" rent out her body.

I think you're being optimistic with the 99.9% Dr. I'm not sure why you've put "has to" in inverted commas?

to emphasis the point.

What I'd like is to live in a world where no man will rent a woman's body.

Dr Morbius it is quite clear from the prevalence of prostitution that 99.9% of men think no such thing. Even accounting for the deluded ones who think the women involved always make the choice to be a prostitute of their own free will, figures are too high to say that men care if a woman has been coerced or not.

If it was just a transaction like any other, why wouldn't you want your daughter to do it?

Presumably you wouldn't say "I hope hairdressing isn't a path my daughter ever goes down" - ? Even the language "a path she goes down" shows you don't think of it like any old job.

Haven't read replies, i think in cases where it can be proved unprotected adulterous sex has occured that it can become an offence due to the risk of infecting a completely innocent party, that alone is probably the worst part of adultery.

Choochi, I don't think so; I think having unprotected sex when you know you have an STI can be an offence, but not if you simply know you've risked catching one.

The idea that you can rent another person's body and it is just a financial transaction is frankly horrifying to me. I can't believe I live in a world where people believe that, where they can devalue the humanity of another person so much. It scares me.

But isn't it a two way thing?
For every man who thinks he can rent another person's body (if you want to put it like that) there is a woman who thinkcs she can loan out her body?
It's horrifying to you and obviously most (99.9?) women who do it is out of lack of options at best, or coercion or trafficking at worst, but not horrifying to those (admittedly a tiny minority) who choose to and enjoy it.

BTW, I am starting to argue a case I don't really agree with now, because I don't think prostitution is a good thing, it all stemmed rom someone saying "nobody chooses to, and nobody enjoys it)).

"For every man who thinks he can rent another person's body (if you want to put it like that) there is a woman who thinkcs she can loan out her body"

Do you think those two things are equal Nosey?

Sorry i didn't put everything clearly , in regards to making adultery a crime hypothetically I think in cases i.e someone has obviously been having unprotected sex with the OW/OM ...i would be ok witj that becoming an offence, because you are risking someone s sexual safety without them knowing.

Wow have I become the whipping boy. I didn't realise the level of scrutiny my words would get. FYI I am tapping away on my second computer while working. So my arguments may not be constructed and articulated to perfection.

I don't know a great deal about prostitution but of all the guys I have ever known (100's). I only know 2 who has engaged a prostitute. This includes spending time in Navada where prostitution is legal. Therefore I can not say for certain 99.9% or closer to 95% but from my experience men using prostitutes is a very rare thing.

But (once again) if any level of coercion exists that is wrong.

OP the other thing that surprises me about this thread is why is there a need for a comparison between adultery and prostitution in a thread. They are both wrong completely IMHO and one being wrong is not dependant on the other or even related to the other in any way. Stealing is wrong and has no relation to whether prostitution or adultery is wrong either. As regards the punishment for the crime well that is a manner for societal norms. Personally I would like to see 'fault' divorces where adulterers have to pay compensation for their actions to their partner and children. If you hit someone and hurt them you pay compensation I see no problem with applying the same logic to emotional injuries.

Sorry if you feel like a whipping boy Morbius, but from my point of view I'm just challenging the ideas you're presenting.

I don't think using prostitutes is as rare as you think. A lot of men don't admit to it.

IMO in practically all instances of prostitution coercion is present, simply because the woman would not choose that option if she had other options open, therefore she is being pushed into by economic necessity.

No DrMorbius you know yourself tone lost on Internet forums and all that .

You haven't become the whipping boy, DrM. To state that accepting a penis into an orifice is a similar transaction to haircutting is your stated position - we are probing that position as the rest of your language doesn't seem to link up with your position.

OK - once again I used the hairdressing scenario to illustrate the commercial aspect of services offered by one party to another. If both parties knowingly and freely offer a service and one party knowingly and freely engage the service. I have no problems. My point was if the women chooses, then it is her decision. Obviously where force, coercion, intimidation etc is used then that is clearly wrong.

Again I was possibly naive as I have never knowingly met a prostitute, so I am speaking theoretically.

DrM, self pity is a very unattractive trait

whipping boy indeed

have a word with yourself

if you come on a female dominated website and come out with gems like "prostitution is simply a transaction" you should expect to get challenged on it

Ok, but on a totally personal level DrM, can you ever imagine a situation where there are thousands of women who say, "I think what I'll do with my life is to meet up with strange people, who might hurt me, rape me, or kill me, take off my clothes and allow them to use the most sensitive, vulnerable parts of my body, and pay me for it."

As in, do you think that, realistically, prostitution often really involves a safe, secure woman who is enjoying her job, happily meeting up with men and engaging in a service transaction?

But the coercion is based on circumstance in many instances ie children who need to be fed, drug abuse and addiction with habits that need to be fed. Prostitution is almost always a symptom of desperation and while there are a very small minority of women who engage in it with very real other choices the fact that the vast majority do it through desperation and that men have absolutely no way of distinguishing one from the other or often s desire to distinguish one from the other mean that it is totally different from other economic transactions.

Obviously where force, coercion, intimidation etc is used then that is clearly wrong.

How do those "decent" men who use prostitutes know this ? Do they simply ask the woman concerned before penetrating her ?