Prostitution and adultery

[TwentyBore]

Ethical question:

I have a question on the matters of prostitution and adultery which is interesting me and perturbing me at the same time.

Why is it that various aspects of prostitution are criminalised whereas no aspects of adultery are illegal? This disconnect makes no sense to me at all and strikes me as very unfair to women, especially to working girls.

Here is the logic:

• Adultery involves (inter alia) breaking promises, lying, cheating, wrecked families and utter misery.

• Prostitution involves the exchange of agreed services for cash between consenting adults and there is therefore a degree of honesty about it completely lacking in adultery (provided there is no coercion or trafficking involved of course).

Were I a newcomer to this world, I should conclude that adultery should be punished far more harshly than any form of prostitution.

The criminalisation of aspects of prostitution seem to place the working girls involved in a far worse position socially than any adulterer, but do working girls really do as much damage as adulterers? I conclude that they do not and for any working girl to get a criminal record for their profession strikes me as manifestly unfair to them.

In short, I regard it absurd to punish any form of prostitution without first punishing all forms of adultery.

I would be very interested in a polite and respectful debate.

Adultery isn't such a bad thing. Sometimes it's justifiable (eg someone finds the courage to leave an EA partner after beginning an affair with someone else) sometimes it's simply no big deal.

It's a peculiar comparison. As has been pointed out, prostitution is legal in the UK. (It seems to be a bizarre feature of most internet forums I've seen that people start debates as though it isn't). FWIW I certainly agree that some of the legal barriers, such as those against working in brothels, should be removed - with the safety and welfare of those doing the work being the overriding concern.

There are many reasons why making adultery illegal is a silly idea. For a start, it simply isn't true that it necessarily involves "lying and cheating". That depends on the marriage agreement of the parties concerned. And if someone commits adultery and is then completely open about it - what do you mean, you want to punish them for "lying" in their wedding vows 20 years previously? With no regard for whatever changing circumstances have emerged since then? And what if their wedding vows didn't say anything about sexual fidelity?

Sorry, it's a non-starter. I like your basic idea though - that dishonesty to others about things that determine important decisions can be more harmful than some of the victimless "crimes" our society prosecutes.

If you really want adultery to be a punishable crime OP, there are still a few countries in the world where you will find your feelings supported:

Woman stoned to death for adultery:

"> Ditto, nobody in school decides they'd like to be a prostitute as a career. It's something that's a last resort.

This is a very emotive point, but the same is true of accounting. "

Quite a few of my school friends talked about accountancy as a career. There were brochures in the careers room and everything,

All dwarfed by the giant poster about sex work though. Not!

Why wouldn't a woman paying a man for sex feel safe?

What are you getting at? Every time I answer one of your questions you ask another.
There are many different reasons. A man may not feel safe going with a street prostitute because they have been known to steal wallets, rip people off, etc. Because people are horrible.

What I'm getting at is that you acknowledge that a woman paying a man for sex won't feel safe. Generally women don't feel safe with strange men because they fear assault, rape and murder (not a stolen wallet or being ripped off). You think that there are women out there who enjoy being with strange men for sex, men who are paying them and who expect them to do whatever they say. Given that women tend to fear strange men (with very good reason) why do you think prostitutes don't feel that fear - what is it, you think, that makes them enjoy putting themselves in a position where a man they don't know can use their body and possibly damage them in some way?

I don't think that prostitutes don't feel that fear.
I feel that some don't.
As I said in my first post, I feel that these women are very very far from the majority.
As for your last question, I don't know. People are different. Just as for some people (men and women) going on holiday to Malaga and shagging as many people as possible is a huge amount of fun for them, for another set of people, it's their idea of a nightmare.
Everytime someone meets someone in a club and goes home with them there is risk of rape, murder and/or damage.

So some prostitutes are happy to go into a room on their own with a man they've never met, take off their clothes and expose the most sensitive part of their body for use by another person and feel no fear about it? You think, in fact, that some prostitutes enjoy that, and choose to do that willingly, as a career?

Shagging around in Malaga is not the same as prostitution. If you hook up with someone in a club, you talk to that person, you feel an attraction to them, you feel in the mood for sex, you kiss, you feel a bit of a buzz, you take them home. It's a fun, social interaction. Yes, there is a risk, but you are at least making an active choice of partner based on attraction and a desire for sex.

A prostitute offers herself up for sex to men who are specifically there to have sex with anybody who is available. It doesn't matter if she's attracted to him or not, or whether she's in the mood for sex or not, he pays and he chooses and if she needs the money then she goes along with whatever he wants. It's a transaction, where one person is renting another person's body. It is not the same thing.

If women want sex, they can get it for free. If women want money and are desperate enough to put themselves in danger, they can sell sex, because men can and will have sex with someone who has no attraction to them or desire for sex.
Prostitutes don't do what they do because they enjoy going into rooms and taking off their clothes with men they don't know - men that don't care about their pleasure or their safety. They do it because they need money. Any punter who believes prostitutes enjoy their job is absolutely delusional.

You think, in fact, that some prostitutes enjoy that, and choose to do that willingly, as a career?

I've even seen a MNer claim that.
On the confessions thread I think.
That she was working from home, loved it, didn't sleep with anyone she didn't want to, and made extra money.

I think you're not able to separate your feelings and morals from other's and can't consider other people may feel differently about this.

A tiny minority, and men who kid themselves the woman enjoys it is delusional.

Exactly its a transaction. Just like any person offering a service to another person. Person (A) with service to supply, meets person (B) wishing to purchase the service. Price is agreed; transaction takes place. That scenario could be prostitution, hairdressing, shoe cleaning etc etc. I don't see the difference. As long as both parties are free to exerciser free-will and freedom of choice in their decision making. Obviously coercion, abuse etc, are different issues and should be dealt with accordingly.

It's nothing to do with feelings and morals. It's not a feeling that 85,000 women get raped going about their daily business in the UK every year. It's not a feeling that 2 women get killed by men every week. Being alone with men is dangerous for women. Choosing to be alone with a man who only wants to put his penis in you (and is paying you, so would quite likely feel entitled to put his penis in you, whether you want that or not) is a very dangerous thing to do.

Women don't buy sex from men because they would not willingly choose, as a recreational activity, to be alone with a man they don't know in an expressly sexual situation. Because it's dangerous and women don't enjoy being in that situation - it's just not fun for them.

I accept that there are women out there who choose to be prostitutes - just as there are people out there who choose to do other dangerous jobs, for whatever reason. But for the vast majority of prostitutes, their job is a necessity, they do it because they feel they have no other option.

And yes, I think that anyone who thinks there are more than a very small number of women who enjoy getting in a room with a man they don't know in order for that man to put his penis in their mouth, vagina, or anus is delusional.

I think anyone who thinks that prostitution is a fine career for a woman should go and tell that to their mother, daughter, sister or friend. And see what they think of it.

Dr, if you were offered the choice between having a penis in one of your orifices for money or cutting someone's hair for money, do you think that you'd judge the transactions as equal and pick, what, whichever was more lucrative?

So DrMorbius, you see no difference between a person cutting another person's hair, and a person putting a solid object into the most sensitive parts of another person's body? There's no difference there, it's all the same?

I see no difference in terms of a commercial transactional event.

So which would you choose, Dr, and what would inform your choice?

Jesus I just got a chill down my spine. I live in a world where someone thinks buying access to another persons mouth/vagina/anus is a perfectly ordinary "transactional event." My body is just something to be bought, if someone wants it. Nothing special. No effect at all on anyone, why would it, it's just meat.

In my opinion it is punters that consider the use of prostitutes to be purely a financial transaction

It's one way to delude yourself that you are still a Good Guy

You are not

The idea that you can rent another person's body and it is just a financial transaction is frankly horrifying to me. I can't believe I live in a world where people believe that, where they can devalue the humanity of another person so much. It scares me.

What I said was "terms of a commercial transactional event" they are the same. I don't have to choose between hair cutting or various acts (graphic description not required) because I choose to provide neither. The other thing I said "As long as both parties are free to exerciser free-will and freedom of choice".
Personally I have never engaged (or doubt I ever would) a prostitute. Incidentally (for work) I have been in over 20 lap dancing joints and never had a lap dance. But I think people should be free to make their own decisions.

Do you think prostitutes exercise free will and freedom of choice DrMorbius? As in, do you think they have a few different choices, but say "I think I'll be a prostitute, that sounds like the best career for me." ?

Which BTW is entirely different than me thinking your body is just something to be bought. Of course I do not think that. But I do think it is your body to do with as you please.
Once again I am not condoning prostitution, far fromit.

You're not condoning prostitution? What are you doing then? That's a genuine question - I don't understand your argument.