DH giving money to PILs after agreeing not to

[slatersrow]

NC. My PIL have frittered away every penning; sold their house, crap businesses, first class travel etc and now insist on living free in my BIL's holiday house and demanding an allowance from other BIL.

They have lots of china, jewellery etc that could be sold but won't. They have been made bankrupt several times.

My DH and his brothers are scared of their DF who is a bully, so easier to give him money and sweep all difficult conversations under the carpet.

My DH and I agreed a long time ago that we'd be supportive but detached and that he would not give them money.

I discovered last week that he's been paying them an allowance. I'm upset and hurt he has gone behind my back and have no idea how to approach this calmly or what resolution I should hope for?

slatersrow the point the remember is that you reserve the right to help your parents, regardless of what your DH wants. If you could afford to help your parents (if they needed it), and your DH put his foot down and said no (for whatever reason - be it logical or not), wouldn't you feel that it isn't within his rights to decide that, provided you are paying it out of your own disposable income?

I'm not saying the situation is ideal, or even right. But I think that he has to have some autonomy to make his own decision in this regard IYSWIM. The problem as I see it is that he is doing this - again, for whatever reason - quietly without telling you. This alone should highlight that this is important to him and something he is struggling with. It doesn't sound like he was doing it in a "well, I'll show her, I'll just do it behind her back" way... more of a "oh god, she'll be angry, my parents will be angry, my family will be angry, I cannot deal with all of this - I'll try to keep the damage limited and try to appease everyone" kind of way.

IMO the first step in fixing this is to bring it out into the open - reduce the stress of the decision. Tell him that you know he is doing it, and while you're disappointed that he's done this without telling you, you understand the pressure he's under with his family. Maybe set up the finances so that you each have a certain amount of disposable income and he can give them money out of that, if he chooses to. Then 1- it's no longer a secret and 2- he's feeling less pressure and more support from you. If it's "his" money to spend, then it's utterly his choice - you cannot make judgements on it as long as he's keeping it within his disposable income. (Just like you would not want him judging what you spend your disposable income on)

Then I would broach the idea of him going to a counsellor just to explore the family dynamics a bit - because discussing it with either you or his family is powder keg, isn't it? Someone neutral with no stake in what he looks at and talks about.

I don't think he will be able to shake off this off without 1- support from you and 2- counselling to allow him to understand the family dynamics and how they affect him, so that he can eventually pull away and be more independent of them emotionally and financially.

It depends on the financial set up in your family and if giving this money is a strain on the family budget. It's wrong for your DH to have said he wouldn't give the money and then hand it over.

Alice that was brilliant and has crystallised my thinking perfectly. What a elegant solution and thank you to you and everyone here who took the time to share their opinion, I cannot express how much better I feel having had this debate with such kind and wise people rather than stuck in the furious and sad confines of my head.

to every single one of you

Alice that's a superb post

slatersrow hope it helps. I've been torn in a number of different directions by my family over the years and it's a real struggle sometimes. It took years to break that grip, and I had to keep reminding myself that the dynamics didn't form that way overnight, it's not going to go away overnight. It takes times to unravel it all. Best of luck.

Joysmum thank you.

I don't check or care how he spends 'his' money; in fact I wish he would take back up the expensive sport he once loved or treat himself sometimes.

Sounds as if he is depriving himself of those extras to make up for spending on his parents. I am not surprised it annoys you but the foundations for this were laid down well before you entered his life.

It all sounds quite tribal: a code of honour impenetrable to outsiders, pay up and be included or risk being sidelined, to the point of facing hostility and exclusion.

I would go absolutely spare if my husband did this. It's the lies that would get me.

I would have absolutely no problem in giving family my last penny if they were really in dire straits, if they needed money in an emergency or for their mortgage or food.

If they 'needed' it because they had pissed all their money up the wall for their entire lives, lived totally beyond their means and already had allowances coming from my siblings then he'll would have to freeze over before they'd get my money. The state provides for people who are really in need, but it seems as though they'd much rather live the life of riley than budget.

I hope you can get through to your husband OP. He does sound terribly abused and in fear of his parents, but still, he shouldn't be lying to you.

What alice says coincides completely with my view too.

There is nothing to be gained and too much to lose by making demands on your DH he just can't comply with at the moment.

If you went down the road of taking over the finances, making him promise not to give more money to the PILS etc you will become to him just what you say they are; domineering, manipulative, selfish.

The softer approach empowers him and you and does not force him into lies. If, as you believe, his parents have him trapped in a childlike state, the last thing you need to do is the same.

I can see how Mary and Alice's approach seems attractive because it seems compassionate and reasonable, but my honest question is: why would anyone want a partner who is unable to be a good partner to them?

Because the truth of the matter is that enablers, while they are not "bad" people, are not free to form healthy relationships with anyone, so long as they remain enmeshed with their bullies.

And they are usually mired so deep, that they cannot even see how their appeasement of their bullies causes harm to their partner, or children, or whoever else loves them and wants to form a healthy bond with them.

I don't believe the "softly softly" approach is the one that will open their eyes to the harm that their own enabling ways are causing others. IME it takes quite a jolt to begin to emerge from such deep denial.

And so long as they don't even acknowledge the harmful dynamic, then what kind of a healthy or equal partnership can they even begin to form?

Agree goats

My question would be, would you want anyone who wouldn't let you do what's important to you and didn't appreciate your emotions?

My motto it to treat others the way you'd want to be treated by others. If either of my parents were in need and my DH stiod in the way if what I felt was my duty, I'd leave him.

Yes, indeed let him. But what he is doing in this instance is placing a higher priority on appeasing feckless parents, than on maintaining the trust that his wife has in him.

He is perfectly free to make that choice, and by making it, demonstrate that he can be no kind of partner to the OP.

When enablers fail to stand up for their children and for their marriages, they are showing that they cannot be good partners or good parents.

The parents have put themselves in need though.

They are not being helped through a difficult time, they are being kept!

When your children are adults, does your husband think that you should be kept by them?

If not, why does he think that he & his brothers should be keeping his parents?

He really does need help, doesn't he?

If he stopped paying & they cut contact, he would be free of being bullied!

But Goats, the OP has not said anywhere that her DH is not a good husband, father or provider. She has said his problem is with his relationship with his parents who have a hold over him stemming from the anxiety begun in his childhood.

You are saying the DH is an enabler to his parents and that makes it impossible to be a good husband and provider, yet the OP doesn't say that. You are making assumptions based on nothing more than your own beliefs. I am sure the OPs love for her husband (which comes across very strongly as sincere and reciprocated) and her protectiveness of him would not happen in the vacuum which you are say he is capable of.

I can't see him putting a higher priority on his parents. Yes he has given them money, and is reluctantly visiting them but if anything he is giving up his own pleasures if his hobby has gone to pay the parents.

If she takes on board your advice she will be getting rid of her DH because he has lied to her (even though it's likely she herself forced him into a corner where he felt he had no choice, which is unfair on both if them) and because he puts his parents above his family. What evidence is there of this? The money has been given and apparently not affected his family, there is no indication he has neglected his family in favour if his parents.

By behaving as you say she should and giving ultimatums and threats of leaving isn't she just being as bullying as she says his parents are? OP wants to support her DH not throw him to the wolves.

The OP spoke of broken agreements, and as the bedrock of any relationship is trust, her husband is playing with their relationship by breaking that trust. Prioritising his fear of his parents over his wife's trust in him. I do see that as a dealbreaker, indeed.

But yes, I am also making a general point about enablers generally. There are so many threads about enablers on MN: at the moment there is another thread where an OP's husband is shutting her up when she protests about his parents letting themselves in her home and using racist language in front of the children, another thread by an angry child of an enabler father who failed to protect her from her abusive mother, another thread from an enabling wife only beginning to understand how standing by her bully of a husband has harmed her two daughters...

Enablers, I would posit, attract sympathy because they appear "nice", whereas in fact their pushover ways end up harming their partners and children, as they allow wolves through the door.

Goats, I think you are being too harsh. It's established that the OP is not being financially impacted by this. Yes, it's unfortunate that her husband has been deceiving her but I would guess that Alice has the right insight on that: he is trying to please everyone.

I think the OP has a lot more to gain by being understanding and giving her husband the ability to talk to her about the situation. He's already been bullied by his parents to the point that it has damaged him. If his wife can be supportive and understanding, then he will be in a better position to do what is right for himself.

It's a nice hope.

"Trying to please everyone" is another word for cowardice.

"I would guess that Alice has the right insight on that: he is trying to please everyone."

That's the thing though isn't it?

as adults, most of us don't feel the need to please our parents.

see them as & when certainly.

Go on holiday with them, keep them, do as they say to appease them, certainly not!

OP - it might be worth your children saying something to their dad that he is the only father they know who seems physically scared of his parents - would they be up to that?
Your DH has no perspective at all in relation to families - but do any of your friends have relations like this? Is there any way to frame this issue to your DH for him to realise that things are not right?

Your DH has been conditioned to seek approval from his parents - but they will never EVER give it. If they haven't done it in 40 years, why would they do it now? He needs to see that constantly trying to win their approval is pointless - what more could he do? Even if he beggared his wife and children it wouldn't be enough.

Logically no matter what he does he will never get approval or thanks.

Get those books on controlling parents and encourage him to talk to a specialist family counsellor who has experience with dysfunctional families. It will be very difficult for him because he has been denying their abuse for years.

BTW the most successful, intelligent woman I know with a business of her own, wads of cash etc etc cried on my shoulder for 2 hours once because of how her mother treated her. Families really can screw you up.

Fabulassie
If his wife can be supportive and understanding, then he will be in a better position to do what is right for himself

So she enables him to enable them?

I would be livid over this. I would be upset at being deceived. I would feel my marriage was less important than leech in-laws. Why should OP feel like that?

DH is a grown man who has a family of his own, yet funds his parents' spending through fear - not love, or necessity, fear. If having a marriage & children of his own hadn't given him motivation of clarifying why he appeased his parents (and the desire to stop doing so), what on earth is the OP bring understanding going to do?

Well, Goats: the truth is that not everybody is perfect and most people are afraid of something. I don't see how the OP pitching a fit will help her husband. But being understanding may well be what he needs to arrive at what he needs to do for himself.

It's only "enabling" if you turn a blind eye to self-destructive behaviour. There's a lot of distance between making demands and enabling - being understanding with the view to giving your partner the freedom to talk about things so that they can arrive at what is best for them is not enabling. The OP was worried about a confrontation that would just make him shut down.

We're not talking about a cocaine addiction, here. The man is spending his own money and he's got the right to do that. What is at issue is the fact that he feels ashamed of it and feels he has to hide it.

I can't see him putting a higher priority on his parents.

I'm not so sure. When we pair up with someone and produce our own family, usually our priorities shift. But here the primary attachment to his parents at least equals if not outweighs the attachment to his DW. Otherwise he would recognise his parents are manipulative squander bugs as my granny would say and challenge them or discuss and negotiate with the brothers.

What kind of parents wield the sort of power that makes grown men tremble and pay a sort of emotional danegeld to avoid confrontation?

as adults, most of us don't feel the need to please our parents.

Not everyone has the same relationship with their parents that you do. He needs to seek counselling to understand the relationship dynamics in order to break free of it. This is something that has developed over YEARS. It's not going to stop overnight, and this obviously creates a huge feeling of anxiety in him.

I think those that are saying to LTB or offer ultimatums are being unreasonably harsh.

Alice I said upthread that I watched my dad have this kind of relationship with his parents. There were many, many occasions when my mum would say "woah, hold on. That's just not on" and my dad would reconsider what he had been going to do and realise she was right. No way was she replacing his parents bullying him with her bullying him as has been suggested upthread.

I don't think it is harsh (or bullying) for OP to point out how utterly ridiculous a situation is to her DH and tell him how his actions appear to her.