oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

The fact remains that most men are sexually aroused by women in skimpy clothes. To go out dressed like that and not expect to be objectified in this day and age is naive. You only have to look at porn to see what turns on most men, and those girls aren't wearing fleecy jumpers and baggy tweed trousers. The same applies to escorts, prostitutes and exotic dancers. Of course men make inappropriate comments to women wearing all manner of outfits, but they certainly have more to say if it's all on show and in their faces.

X post neil.
That would be just a group of drunk loutish women, similar to a group of drunk loutish men.

It's true that some women sometimes dress to get attention, I've done it, but you can't actually tell which they are from what they're wearing. Some women are just wearing a short skirt because they're fashionable and comfy...

I do know what I'm talking about btw.
Through life. Through experience. I've never been the sort who wolf whistles or shouts remarks but some of my mates were /are.
If a group of women walked into the bar and one or more of them had loads of cleavage showing and a tiny skirt on, they'd get more comments and remarks than the ones dressed more conservatively. I'm not mansplaining. I'm just stating a fact from experience.

Sorry the op's bf then. By the sounds of it he didn't say anything inappropriate to the girls? One thing to say (and be rather insensitive yes) to the adult woman next to you, ooh to be that age again, they look well up for it, and to actually approach the girls..? Yes he was crass and vulgar, but that sounds about the height of it? (In this situation anyway). Why are the girls who were dressed like this being criticised so much? There is a bar local to me that a lot of 16 year olds go to dressed to the nines. The only rape to have happened was a woman ta behind the bar in her pj's and a heavy coat, after being to an all night garage up the road for cigs. She was targeted because she was alone, as most of the dressed to nines young girls stick together in groups, share taxi's home etc not because of what she was wearing.

The fact remains that most men are sexually aroused by women in skimpy clothes.

The fact remains that rapists are sexually aroused by three year old children, or vulnerable old women alone in their bungalows or by their colleague er, being female and being there.

Rape isn't about sexual attractiveness of the victim, it's about the control and power giving the rapist an erection.

*taking a shortcut home

I don't understand your example, neil

Those women were inviting sexual assault ?

I'm just stating a fact from experience.

Given all of the posters who have spoken about their experience, would you tell us from your experience as a woman what it's like going about your normal, everyday, unthreatening activity and having to put up with sexual harassment? You know, whilst you're not mansplaining to us?

Raping someone is nothing to do with sex.

It's perfectly reasonable to tell teenaged boys and girls to stay with their friends, have a plan for getting home and not to drink to excess. This is sane, healthy advice for everyone. The problem is when girls have additional advice aimed at preventing others from assaulting them, as if such a thing is possible.

I've never been the sort who wolf whistles or shouts remarks but some of my mates were /are.

Interesting. You're the big proponent of decent dressing for girls so that they don't experience the behaviour of the people you call friends. Nice.

Cog

Basic personal safety advice is one (quite sensible) thing. But comparing women's bodies to valuables left on display in cars?

The point about valuables in cars, is if they're not visible, nobody knows they're there. The same cannot be said of women's body parts.

Not one person has said you shouldn't give your sons/daughters advice on how to stay safe in our violent world.

But the "special" gendered advice to girls about not wearing revealing clothes, not getting drunk etc specifically as a talisman against not getting sexually abused is surely problematic to even the hardest of thinking ?

Do that by all means (and enjoy the false security it provides you) , but please don't deny that you are part of the problem in that you are upholding rape myths.

Ok, here's an example. A few years ago, I was at the lights near my house. A minibus pulled up alongside me. I heard banging on the windows and looked to the side. It was a group of women on a night out /hen party /whatever. Some had lifted their tops and put their bust against the glass, some decided to lift their skirt and show their arse.

So some people were rowdy and exhibitionistic. And?

OP, unless you like the idea of your daughter being ogled while she eats breakfast in an 'inappropriate' nightie, and your bf thinking about having sex with her, I'd get rid fast. I know you said she is young now, but don't let her grow up around this sleaze.

Erm, no I didn't view those women as giving me an invite to have sex with them against their wishes but then again, you know that, you're just being facetious. (even though the remarks they were shouting would make a sailor blush)
SOME women go out dressed specifically to get male attention. I don't understand how any of you can deny this. It's the truth.

I don't deny anything. Does it give men the right to sexually abuse them, neil ?

And how does that extrapolate to my 12 yo self being sexually harassed on the street in my school uniform at 4pm ?

SOME women go out dressed specifically to get male attention.

Nobody is denying that women sometimes go out dressed to look attractive. What women are stating us that this does not give people permission to abuse and harass women, and women should not have to tailor their behaviour with the expectation that they will meet you and your sleazy friends. Also, women's experience is that harassment happens regardless of outfit, so it hardly matters how women dress.

The fact is CurtWild that men are sexually aroused by women whatever they're wearing. You may get more comments dressed skimpily but you'll get comments whatever. The last time I was harassed on the street a couple of weeks ago I was wearing jeans, sunglasses and a mac.

Burqa wearing countries don't report lower rates of sex offences.

Historically, when wome wore long clothes, men simply fetished what they could see like hands and feet, and feverishly imagined what they couldn't.

Well it sounds like you've got some pretty awful mates, the type that likes to think that they have any right to comment what a woman wears. And the fact that you are their friend makes you no better. Would you be friends with someone who used racist language or anti gay statements?

SOME women go out dressed specifically to get male attention. I don't understand how any of you can deny this. It's the truth.

I used to, yes. I also seemed to have been impervious to the weather.

I. Did. Not. Dress. To. Be. Raped.

Interestingly, I was wearing pretty conservative clothes on all of the times I was sexually assaulted or raped.

Is 'male attention' some kind of revolting euphemism then?

Because flirting and 'pulling' on a Saturday night doesn't seem appalling behaviour worth of censure, handwring and moral panic TBH.

Would you be friends with someone who used racist language or anti gay statements?

What about if it were only when they were drunk? Lads. Normal blokes. Who are only racist when they are drunk. Or when I taxi of drunk, black men pull up alongside him and jeer.