oogling young girls

[typingtoofast]

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

Recently I had a bloke shout disgusting things at me in the street. Here's the kicker:

I'm 40, quite overweight, was wearing jeans and trainers, no make up, unstyled hair, it was the middle of the day, I had my two sons with me (both under 10).

So, essentially, I was a target literally for being female and happening to be the female that walked past as this twat decided he wanted to sexually harass a woman.

How did I bring that on myself? I was dressed 'correctly', I didn't do/say anything to 'provoke' the attention. My children certainly didn't! My older son asked me why the bloke was shouting at me.

If that doesn't prove that some men are just twats who think they can sexually harass women, regardless of looks/age/what they're wearing/where they are are/who they have with them, I don't know what the fuck does!

Cog I am that you just said that.

Comparing rape to property theft

With some counter-opinions in the comments.

Can I just point out that I'm not talking about the violent act of rape. I'm talking about entitled pricks that are out with their mates who think it's clever to make suggestive remarks and grope women because they are wearing something that, even with the slightest move forward, reveals their backside.

It's all a continuum neil; dickwads who think it is somehow ok to lay their hands on parts of other people's anatomy without invitation.

Think about the violation of crossing that line, the mental attitude it takes to break it. What has to be wrong with a person to think that is ok? From 'entitled prick' through to rapist.

But Neil, read my example above and you'll realise it has bugger all to do with clothing or anything else!

Some men are just pricks because they are. And they see all women as fair game.

Plenty of men don't perve. I've seen two middle aged men move to a different room at a wedding party, as the presence of two teenage girls in very short shorts and bra tops was making them feel uncomfortable. They were honest - they couldn't help but have a reaction, that reaction made them uncomfortable given the girls' youth, so they chose to go where they could no longer see them.

And 'provocative' clothing? Jesus wept.

I'm not talking about the violent act of rape. I'm talking about entitled pricks that are out with their mates who think it's clever to make suggestive remarks and grope women

And groping w/o consent IS violence, of force. It is all a question of degree.

Going back to the question posed, which was whether or not it was normal for a man to say to you that a 16 year old was going to be having sex that night & imagine the fun he'd have had with her back in the day- no, it's not normal for most blokes to say things like that. Making sexual comments about other women shows a terrible lack of respect for you, regardless of the age of the women he is looking at or what they are wearing.

The fact that she only looked about 16 but he still thought it was okay to talk to you about having sex with her- even if it was only a joke about his young self- is really grim. I don't think I'd want to have sex with him again, to be honest! It's a bit 'predatory dirty old man' for my liking.

I know there are twats that behave like that regardless of what a woman is wearing.
But I'm talking about what we would all deem to be ordinary, everyday blokes (lads) on a night out with their mates. If a woman bent over near them and they got an eyeful of her backside in a thong, they're bound to make comments more than they would if it was a woman in baggy jeans.
If you can't see that, then I think you're kidding yourself. It happens. It's a fact.

Oh yeah the old valuables analogy, but you can't leave your vagina at home or shut your breasts away. The local conclusion to that line is burqas all round...

From the research I've seen, the majority of women are raped in casual clothing, and convicted sex offenders generally report that they choose their victim/s based on vulnerability, few, if any, cite clothing as a factor. In fact it's notable that few even recall what their victims were wearing. So I do not believe there is any link between dress and rape. However I have personal experience of how much more hassle you get if you're dressed a certain way.

There are unfortunately way too many men like the OPs partner who think skimpy clothing is an invitation, including men from different cultures that don't have enlightened Western attitudes to female dress. From experience I would dress to avoid hassle, but if I got raped I would know it was highly unlikely to be down to my clothing. Bottom line is you get raped because you've got a vagina.

A backside in a thong is hardly a novelty anymore neil

No Neil, you'd still get comments if you bent over in baggy jeans.

It's the bending over that would elicit them...

Is it not legal to have sex at 16? Is it not legal to wear revealing outfits at 16? And go out and have fun, enjoy feeling young and sexy and wanted? They were in a group, so were being safe in that it wasn't one girl wondering around half naked alone. If they are partying in a friends house, this is legal too? Yes op's dh shouldn't have said these things to her, but at least he was honest? A lot of men wouldn't have said it but would have thought it. I think these girls have a right to go out and have fun while they can. You are only that age once, and it doesn't last long and if they're having sex, hopefully they are having safe sex (which they are allowed to do, so why shouldn't they?). OP your dh was crass and vulgar, but honestly it doesn't sound as if he said anything really terrible. For a start, he said "oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun" which shows he at least has a realistic grasp that these girls would no longer find him sexy/ that it would be inappropriate to approach them at his current age. He could have worded it a lot worse. If he didn't know you at 16 you could have said something like "oh well I was a little minx at that age, could have given them a run for their money, you'd have had no chance" and made a joke of it/ laughed it off. And why would a sexy, giggly young woman in a revealing outfit in a public place surrounded by friends, teasing a boy be wrong? I take it he meant dancing, hair twirling, long glances and batting eyelashes and being a general flirt? That sounds quite normal for a 16 your old out for a good time, maybe out on the pull. I think he has stated the obvious with the teasing/ maybe having sex remarks

But the excellent news is that sleazebag ISN'T OP'S DH. They don't even live together, I think. So he's easily jettisoned when she comes to her senses

neil with respect, you don't actually know what you are talking about

you need to speak to women about how they get harassed, groped, objectified etc etc from just about puberty no matter what they are doing, no matter how they are behaving, no matter what they are wearing

please do not think you can speak for women by putting what we experience on a regular basis into a box entitled "lads being lads"

to make it easier for you though, I direct you here

Ok, here's an example. A few years ago, I was at the lights near my house. A minibus pulled up alongside me. I heard banging on the windows and looked to the side. It was a group of women on a night out /hen party /whatever. Some had lifted their tops and put their bust against the glass, some decided to lift their skirt and show their arse.
Can you, hand on heart, honestly say that ALL young women who go out wearing next to nothing are doing it purely because they feel comfortable and look good and it has nothing to do with attracting attention from men?
I'm not victim blaming or saying anyone is asking to be attacked. I'm saying some women behave differently to others and dress differently. To suggest otherwise is just burying your head in the sand.

@Arsenic... I'm sorry if you're but that's my opinion. I have a teenage DS who will be roaming the streets on Hallowe'en with a bunch of pals. I will - and I'm sorry if this shocks anyone - be sending him out for the evening with some instructions about personal safety e.g having his mobile phone with him, not getting separated from the group, walking away from any bad behaviour etc. I'm pretty sure other parents will be saying similar things to their DCs - quite reasonably.

neil you have the privilege of being male and can go about your daily business with a 99% chance of being left alone to go about about your business.
Girls and women are routinely subjected to various degrees of inappropriate behaviour from men and boys, often several times a day. Those girls going out to have fun in bra tops and mini skirts have probably had plenty of experience of inappropriate behaviour since puberty kicked in. So they are not inviting comments by showing their bum or breasts because they probably heard them all before when they were in their uniform or a tracksuit or leggings and a jumper.

neil did you look at this crude behaviour and think, "Blimey, they're asking me to go and have sex with them, against their wishes"?