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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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oogling young girls

804 replies

typingtoofast · 25/10/2014 22:08

Myself and my partner have decided to give it another try. He is convinced im the woman for him and has apologised for his regular selfish episodes where I have to explain to him that his behaviour is not condusive to a healthy relationship. Ultimately he's selfish. But he has improved and I have seen a loving, attentive and kind man. I was beginning to think that this was a great new start for our relationship and was glad to give it another shot as had missed him when I decided to end it. The break gave me and him perspective and what was important to us both. All that aside.
We were out today in town and a group of young girls (16yr olds I'd say)were obviously heading off on a halloween party night. I had mentioned how inappropriate I thought the outfits were as they were extreamely revealing. You get the picture. In my mind I'm also thinking how they will catch their death of cold!
He views the girls and says they're out for a good night and laughs. He almost snapped his neck gawping. Now nobody could help it as the outfits as i said were ott. But then he replies they'll be teasing the boys later in the nightclub. I reply yes and that's just wrong.
I have in hay days worn revealing outfits and I replied that I wasn't necessarily looking for sex I was I suppose just rebelling and trying to be adult like.
He replied but kids these days are having sex younger, just look at them,look at the one in the tiny outfit. She'll be having sex tonight with the way she's carrying on.
I told him that's enough, that he looked like a sleezy man oogling.
He replied oh to be back that age again. I'd love to meet her out. Imagine the fun.
I was appalled by two things. One him visioning and two saying it in front of me.
Is this normal? I was disgusted and chose to say nothing for the rest of the evening. But then I think what if middle aged men say these things in their head. He's stupid/honest enough to say it out to me.
Now I'm thinking I am with a sleezy middle aged man and worries me that he would think like that.

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 29/10/2014 17:55

Sexual harassment is sexual harassment no matter which gender is doing the harassing.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 18:12

In Rochdale, in 2008, reported abuses of child sex abuse were still being ignored and filed away as the girls making a "lifestyle choice" and indulging in prostitution

Amongst the notes made by social workers and police officers at the time were references to the ways the girls dressed in a "sexualised manner" along with other ways they judged their background and manner. Those girls were 14 and 15 yo.

I am watching the news right now where phrases such as "she wore a crop top" are still used in mitigation of the lack of action against sustained grooming and child sexual abuse.

Somebody tell me how some of the comments on this thread are not in support of that mindset.

FolkGirl · 29/10/2014 18:14

That's really awful, Neil. I'm not going to try and explain other people's actions; afterall I could only speculate.

But I agree with Darkest, sexual harassment is sexual harassment regardless of who is doing the harassing and who is being harassed Sad

You shouldn't have been treated like that.

dadwood sadly, it is. We need men to challenge it alongside us because it is difficult for us to do it alone purely because the men doing it don't respect us! There's always the hope that men will listen to other men...

Vivacia · 29/10/2014 18:23

You do realise what this means right ?

Yes we realise. You are being told now what is blindingly, daily obvious to us. And you don't believe us. Instead of listening and learning you're telling us we must be wrong for no reason other than you, as a man, have not experienced being a sexually harassed woman.

Darkesteyes · 29/10/2014 18:44

And reporting sexual harassment at work is a whole lot harder now than it was because workplace rights are being eroded. Now you have to pay a certain amount of money to even bring a case because this Government has changed the law. I cant remember the amount (i THINK its something like £300. Someone on a low wage stands no chance whatsoever.

Its also a massive minefield because it depends on what the workplace is like , on what HR is like. One of my old workplaces didnt have an HR department. It has actually been made harder to report this than it was ten years ago. Justice has become more of a commodity and only for those who can afford it!

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 18:54

...and particularly for women who are unable to claim legal aid for divorce (except where there is DV...but try proving it!)

Darkesteyes · 29/10/2014 18:58

Sad Angry

neiljames77 · 29/10/2014 19:18

A patriarchal society only benefits a certain percentage of society. Mainly men of course and a small percentage of women who take advantage of it for financial gain.
If a man is subjected to dv, the attitude is still prevalent that he'd be laughed at and would be too ashamed to report it. The same applies to sexual harassment in the workplace.
It's social conditioning that needs to change.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 19:23

Yes, I agree, neil. Could you start a new thread and not derail this one. Cheers.

neiljames77 · 29/10/2014 19:56

This thread has been derailed from the start.
Could you forget about my gender and just view me as a poster. Cheers.

ScarletHarridan · 29/10/2014 20:02

Well viewing you as a poster, I don't think a thread about the sexual harassment women experience on a daily basis should be the place to discuss how hard men find it to be taken seriously when they complain bout the same thing

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:06

This whole thread is about a gendered problem right from the start, despite some twists and turns along the way. You are being rude and menzy to try and make it about you.

neiljames77 · 29/10/2014 20:15

I'm not being rude or menzy, I just don't like hypocrisy and like to challenge it.
And going by the other comment, by that logic, about 6% of the UK is non-white. Do we disregard their rights and concerns?

GurlwiththeCurl · 29/10/2014 20:17

I may be the same age as some of your mums as I am nearly 60. Yes, I can report repeated sexual harassment since I was very young, varying from calling out, groping, whistling, to assault.

No, I never reported any of it. I did directly challenge some, when I felt safe enough to do so, but most of the time I did not. My DH is a bit like some of the men on this thread in that he found it very hard to believe when I first told him about how women live with this daily. He now gets it even if he has never seen it happen.

Some men don't even notice when it happens right next to them. Years ago, my sister and I were walking with our brother. Us either side and him in the middle. We were in Italy and walking down a long promenade. When we got back to the hotel, my sister and I were black and blue on our bums, from all of the pinching. Brother hadn't even realised!

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:21

Like I said, it would be better manners to "challenge the hypocrisy" on your own thread. Why don't you want to start one ?

You are also being a bit sly, neil. You got some great support on your workplace thread despite you being a monumental PITA on it.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:22

Like I said, it would be better manners to "challenge the hypocrisy" on your own thread. Why don't you want to start one ?

You are also being a bit sly, neil. You got some great support on your workplace thread despite you being a monumental PITA on it.

emotionsecho · 29/10/2014 20:22

twindad76 now you've seen that video and commented it is terrible, do you still hold to your view that women should stand up to the men who harass them in public on a daily basis, do you think it would have been in that woman's best interests to have spoken to/interacted with any of the men in that video? Do you still feel that women should report all harassment they experience on a daily basis, who should the woman in the video have reported the men to? and what for?

I hope the video has opened your eyes, perhaps now if you see any of that behaviour whether amongst your friends, work colleagues or even random strangers out and about you will challenge them instead of expecting the victim of it to do so.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:24

Neil, the only reason you could have had to "challenge hypocrisy" on this thread would have been if someone had denied men's experieces in the first place. Otherwise you just look like a goady piper-upper.

As it 'appens there has been a fair share of denying the experience of women. Have you anything to useful to say on that matter ?

justiceofthePeas · 29/10/2014 20:25

neil a proportion of the responses you received were like that because a proporton of people will respond to being told about sexual harrassment like that regardless of the gender of the poster.

I had the same response from some people when telling them about a man who makes inappropriate remarks to me on a regular basis. I should be flattered. I'm not.

However, it happens more to women and it is I would argue more intimidating if you are female. So I am sure, as a man who found that experience distressing and upsetting you have some insight into how it is for women.

Out of interest did anyone suggest you should dress less provocatively? Or even ask what you wear? Or what you did to cause that response?

neiljames77 · 29/10/2014 20:35

I'd hardly cal it derailing the tread.
It's been mentioned on here about women not being believed, "asking for it " and enjoying the attention.
Pretty much what I was told, by you mainly, Anyfucker.
I just don't like hypocrites and double standards.

Vivacia · 29/10/2014 20:39

Neil where are the double-standards on this thread?

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:42

Why bring your beef to this thread. There have been no "double standards" on this thread. You are simply derailing to make a point.

It's bad form to out someone's namechange, btw

ScarletHarridan · 29/10/2014 20:47

Ah = its all about the hypocrisy is it? Not about you trying to discuss the issue, or share your experience. It is FAR more important that women stop focusing on that and address the fact that MEN ARE EXPERIENCING IT TOO. Obviously, we can't discuss the daily experiences we have, or the way that society perpetuates it, because you have raised a far more important issue.

So sorry, Neil. Tell me all about how your feelings have been hurt. The other stuff can wait.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker · 29/10/2014 20:51

It's all part of the same bollocks isn't

Women, STFU and listen to how men have it bad too.

Whenever the issue of men posting on MN pops up, I support their right to post here as much as anyone. But sometimes I wonder.

neiljames77 · 29/10/2014 20:53

I'm working at the moment but if I have time, I'll start a separate thread later entitled hypocrisy.
Well discuss things on that if you like.
Sorry for the derail.